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GW judges at Baltimore ruled that the Dark Eldar Nightmare Doll, which allows you to automatically choose your deployment zone, allows you to go first.

...due to the fact that when you roll for table side/go first, the roll is one dice roll, "If you get to choose sides, you must also get to go first".

Comments?

i think this another dead item as there is no roll for table edge any more ... just a roll for who goes first

edit ... IG's Lord Catellan can howeve choose to re-roll the for the first turn so he still works

So yes, they go first?


EDIT: oh, you said Item, I thought you said issue.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW judges at Baltimore ruled that the Dark Eldar Nightmare Doll, which allows you to automatically choose your deployment zone, allows you to go first.

...due to the fact that when you roll for table side/go first, the roll is one dice roll, "If you get to choose sides, you must also get to go first".

Comments?

That was a bad ruling, IMO.

A comparable item that has been ruled on in an official capacity is the Liber Heresius in the Witch Hunter codex (which also allows players to pick their deployment zone). In this case they ruled the item does not work at all in standard missions.

So personally I would rule that the Nightmare Doll suffers the same fate.



Of course, I do have to mention that I think by the RAW these items *should* work in 5th edition, but they should simply allow players to be able to choose their deployment zone regardless of who won the roll to go first (that's how I'd rule on both these items if GW hadn't made that ruling in the WH FAQ).

But in no way do I think the ruling you've presented is correct. It not only doesn't follow the precedent set by GW in a very similar situation, but I don't think it matches what the RAW says either. . .having a special rule that allows you to choose your deployment zone in no way entitles you to automatically go first.

I must admit that I was guilty of using this item at several tournaments. None of the judges had an issue with it nor did my opponents when it came up.

EDIT: Just noticed something. This item does NOT allow you do automatically chose deployment sides. If you wish you can make your opponent reroll his dice when it comes time to chose table sides, but doing so inflicts a str 3 hit on the model carrying the doll with no save. While this does improve the odds it is by no means automatic.

Defintely a bad ruling, since the GW studio declared the opposite for the Liber Heresius. Answer to that one was that there is no such role any more, the Liber has no effect.

Edit: Oooops, missed where Yak said the same thing.................

That's way too powerful for a wargear item. Considering GW has made plenty of items and rules have no effect in fifth edition, I'm surprised at this. But, then, I'm not either since this was Baltimore. I wasn't there, but it sounds like there were a lot of.... odd decisions from the judges at Baltimore that sound like they were 'knee jerk' answers and not well thought out. Very disappointing. I guess we just all have to wait for the 'Adepticon' FAQ, since that is done by gamers for gamers.

I say it's cause I wasn't involved in the discussions this time................ (That's a joke son, you're supposed to laugh) Hmmmm, I think I'll drop Clay and Donovan a couple of 'notes' tho.

yakface wrote:Of course, I do have to mention that I think by the RAW these items *should* work in 5th edition, but they should simply allow players to be able to choose their deployment zone regardless of who won the roll to go first (that's how I'd rule on both these items if GW hadn't made that ruling in the WH FAQ).

Totally agreed.

Roll to go first. Then apply the Nightmare Doll to override the choice of DZ.

Agree on the point above.

It is funny to me though that they say the codex overrides rules and uphold it sometimes(IG dedicated transports can't transport other units, Black templars IIRC smoke still does glancing only, tau disruption pods for only 5 points 4 + cover save) but in other cases say no way (liber herseius, all of the items that effect ourtnubmering and other out of date rules that no longer exist etc).

Meph

And that is why their FAQs are officially unofficially official.