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It seems to me that IG heavy weapons teams should be able to take more stuff. Like Multimeltas maybe, or Plasma cannons. Or, best of all, Assault cannons. Do you think they should be able to?

Discuss.

Nope!

All those are either highly specialised, or extremely rare, in terms of fluff.

And in game terms....Multimeltas are too short ranged. IG Heavy Weapons normally lurk up the back. Plasma Cannons? Too suicidal. You risk wiping out your own squad, and tend to be very expensive weapons. Assault Cannons? Put those in, and nobody would take Heavy Bolters or Auto Cannons, the Assault Cannon being a suitable hybrid of the two.

Without restriction? No. A single squad of Multi-meltas or Plasma cannons as a doctrine (while they last) I have no problem with. I field a single squad of multi-melta armed Squats. They often die before they can use them due to their short range.

I think it is an okay idea if it is restricted to Command Squads, or one per army. However, I don't really see how it is needed. Except for Assault Cannons, those have actually had some coveted history in the Guard, and I don't see why they can't come back as squad heavy weapons, pintle mounts, and sponson equipable.

hmm... Id agree with mad doc grotsnik on this one. In the fluff, plasma & melta weapons are so rare as to be priceless & unlikely to be handed out willy nilly to IG weapons teams. & I might be wrong, but arent assault cannons a strictly SM weapon, fluff wise? so again, itd be unlikely youd see it in a guard weapons teams.

& also, is there any point in taking such a short ranged weapon as a multi melta, or such a volatile weapon as a plasma cannon in what amounts to a static artillery unit? I think it would made more sense to take a missile launcher if you wanted the plasma's template, or a lascannon if you wanted the melta's high S & low AP.

Granted, Lascannons dont have the extra vehicle penetration dice of meltas, but their range makes up for it, considering the nature of the unit.

Range is rather pointless, more and more I've noticed. With the way Run, Fleet, and Assault works, you have to be 18"+away from your opponent to get your shots in. Assaults occur regularly in Turn 2, and always in Turn 3. I see a purpose for Multi-Meltas and Plasma Cannons. Fluffwise they are supposed to be rare. However everyone and their mother seems to have access them. If anyone should have a hard time finding them, it should be the Chaos forces, but I think they actually have more available then anyone! Well, and Guard has a lot of them too, but they have whole solar systems dedicated to Plasma and Melta weapons production.

I would like to see MultiMeltas on Sentinels, that'd be cool.
Combine that with a nice point reduction and now we're talking


But as for PC or MM as a infantry based HW, hmmm now without some heavy restrictions.

I agree, it should be allowed and to the people saying meltas and plasmas are too rare, you can have a plasmagun or meltaguns in a normal squad. Bolters, stormbolters, heavy stubbers, heavy flamers and sniper rifles should all be allowed too!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:All those are either highly specialised, or extremely rare, in terms of fluff.

None of those weapons are extremely rare.

BYE

I'd say they aren't extremely rare, just rare enough not to be standard issue weapons for platoon line guardsmen.

I think they're fine being relegated to a limited number of units, like how the demolisher can take multi-meltas or how sentinels could use to have assault cannons.

A Plasma Gun is a rare weapon.

What that means is that it is so rare they can only issue one to every squad, rather than one to every trooper.

I don't see plasma cannons being far beyond that. I can't see Multi-Meltas being much of an issue at all. Assault Cannons would probably be impractical to have due to maintenence (Heavy Bolters are hard enough already).

BYE

id be happy with automatic grenade launchers its not going to happen but a grenade launcher with 3 shots counts as heavy would be a fun weapon

Part of what makes Guard what they are is the 2E model-based restriction that Guard have somewhat limited access to higher-tech equipment from a mass access standpoint. That is, semi-exotic equipment like Plasma Cannon & Multi-Melta are only available on Demolisher sponsons. Assault Cannon are not part of standard Guard kit, instead using Multi-Laser for a similar role.

There is nothing wrong with Guard having either weapon, although practically, the Multi-Melta is only really usable by Guard on a Vehicle platform of some sort, and right now, the SM have that covered in spades with PMMM, Dread, Landspeeder, and AB, along with SM-portable MM on Devs and Tacs. Plasma Cannon are slightly less available, but still more of a SM weapon than a Guard weapon.

I could see these as mounted on Sentinels as well as Servitors, but not much more than that.

If the next codex came out with Multi-Meltas, Plasma Cannons, and Assault Cannons as mounted on vehicles (even if just on the Sentinel) but not in squads, Command Squads, or even specialised squads like Heavy Weapons Squads, I wouldn't complain about it.

Oh, I dunno. Which makes more sense to use the highly volatile plasma weapons, the easily replaced guardsman, or the SM that you have to spend lots of time and resources to recruit, train, equip (including the genetic mods), and is really hard to replace?

Balance wise though, with the current codex setup for heavy weapons should you add plasma cannons. 3 heavy choices, of 3 squads per choice, with 3 crews per squad, or 27 Plasma Cannons? Plus the 1-2 heavy/special in the command squad for each Heavy choice, for 30 heavy weapons (27 plasma) and 3 special weapons. What out there that isn't horde is going to survive a turn of 27 Str 7 AP2 small blasts with half a table range? And that doesn't count the troops with their heavy weapon per squad, the HQ with it's heavies. The high str low ap on a blast template is just too good to be able to spam it like that.

Maybe in apocalypse.

You actually think IG Heavy Weapons Platoons are going to be in the new Codex?

I could see the multimelta on sentinels in the next codex. Forge World already does a model with the multimelta on it, which means we might get that as a treat.

JohnHwangDD wrote:You actually think IG Heavy Weapons Platoons are going to be in the new Codex?

Yeah. Particularly with an army that's noted for having a large amount of infantry, and static gunlines, I can definitely see them keeping heavy weapon platoons. And as I said at the beginning of my earlier post, it was with the consideration of them keeping them. If they don't, then it's not a worry, but they're going to have to do something to balance out the low statline, and poor weaponry the guard infantry to have everywhere else. And vehicles may not be the answer for all things, so yeah, I definitely see them keeping some form of heavy weapon platoon. It may not be in exactly the current configuration, but I don't really see them going away entirely.

Interesting perspective.

I have the HWP as "sure to disappear", because I think GW is going to force players to embed units of Heavies (and Specials) tied to Troops Platoons.

I agree that HWP is great for static gunline, but it's bad for any of the 5E missions short of tabling your opponent.

Hell, i just want to be able to take a Multilaser as a infantry based HW. Forget all that other junk.

Me, I have a simple wish. I just want a heavy weapon team with rail guns.

A ranged weapon for anti-tank with AP1. I still don't know why the Lascannon wasn't made AP1 in the new Marine codex, foreshadowing Guard having it as AP1. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Lascannon is, fluff-wise and game-wise, an anti-tank weapon? Should probably have anti-tank penetrating abilities. Just a thought.

BoxANT wrote:Hell, i just want to be able to take a Multilaser as a infantry based HW. Forget all that other junk.

Beat me to it, I just want a super flashlight for my line troops even if its niche can be done by already existing weapons.
I'd like to see multi-meltas on sentinels as well, seems like a reasonable bit of equipment for a light walker. Not really a fan of the plasma cannon idea, seems a bit too robust for my idea of the guard. Now as to assault cannons? I don't see it happening but It sure would be neat particularly from a modeling perspective.