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pcon426 wrote:"THER WILL BE NO PLASTIC THUNDERHALK!!!!!!!!!!!!"

The very idea that there won't be a plastic Thunderhawk is kind of ludicrous.

GW made a pewter multi-part Thunderhawk (nearly impossible to build, BTW), and actually managed to sell some number of them at the then unheard price of $600 per kit. GW then followed this up with a *much* better and easier to build FW resin model at essentially the same price.

GW continues to test price capacity in Apocalypse, and managed to sell a fairly large number of Space Marine Companies, along with some number of Chapters. So last Christmas, GW proved that players are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars for large boxes.

This GW manages to sell what are basically large, blank sheets of plastic as a set for $300. This Christmas, GW proved that players have no problem dropping $300+ on a single pile of plastic.

And here you come saying that GW won't make the money grab for a mega-kit like a Thunderhawk?

Complete and utter nonsense.

It's not a question of "if", but merely a question of "when".

Most likely, GW will sell the plastic Thunderhawk for $300 as a limited (initial) run. This allows them to fully recover their tooling and mold costs immediately. Most likely, GW has already crunched the numbers and knows the production point for a Thunderhawk, and is simply waiting to see that Apocalypse has the legs for the release.

Mark my words, within the next 5 years, GW *will* sell a plastic Thunderhawk. Of that, there is no question in my mind.
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The big question is pricing. What do you think?

Yes, I was hoping people would ignore the battle board and the price would then drop like a stone. Cheers to those who proved that GW's bizzare pricing strategies can work.

If Apocalypse carries on being popular, I agree a Thunderhawk will show up at some point. Don't think it will be this year though...

I hope we won't have to wait till 2010 to get one. I don't play Space Marines and don't plan on starting them anytime soon, but the Thunderhawk is one heck of a model and I'd love to loot one.

Considering that GW is actually making another super-heavy Guard tank, it's actually wuite a surprise that their "flagship" army didn't get a superheavy vehicle of their own.

300$ is a lot though...

Space Marines don't tend to field superheavies in the current fluff - they're meant to perform lightning fast surgical raids, so the big tanks just hold them back.

I think a Warhound titan or Knight could make its debut in the next few years.

A plastic Thunderhawk isn't so hard to imagine....because it is the only real Apoc unit for Space marines and
also compatible with chaos-SM, so this kit would cover a great portion of GW's customers.

Did a high pricetag matter on a plastic kit that says 40k like nothing else? I don't think so.
There is enough financial capacity available to sell hundreds of Thunderhawk kits.


We had rumors about a comin "codex planetstrike"and it was renamed then "drop zone",but i think if this is some
code/project - name it could be Apoc II/III and a release of the Thunderhawk would be fitting to a new book.
I believe our sources who say GW has the alpha molds ready and i second the thougth,they hold back their products
to get the most out of any release.

Another Apoc kit with the already known Shadowsword and the possible stompa would be too much.
So we may see Thunderhawks in 2010.

I'm fine with this. If i need flyers/skimmers i'll use valks until then......

I think Knights would be an excellent fit for Space Marines, being smaller, faster and more maneuverable than a Titan. I think they wouldn't really be a superheavy, more of a walking Leman Russ with close combat capability.

Knights are a one-man Titan. Bell of Lost Souls has some fan-created rules for them. They're still AdMech, but really just a big walking Dread. If GW ever did an AdMech army, they'd make a heavy support selection. They could even have (like the rumored Valkyrie rules), two sets of stats - Apoc where they'd be a superheavy and regular 40k where they'd just be a big walker (but probably shouldn't have a WS so that they couldn't be tied up by a big boyz mob).

Im with JohnhwangDD on this one. Theres a big market among gamers for a plastic thunderhawk, & GW know nothing if not how to charge people lots & lots of money for a moderate amount of plastic.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I hope we won't have to wait till 2010 to get one. I don't play Space Marines and don't plan on starting them anytime soon, but the Thunderhawk is one heck of a model and I'd love to loot one.

Considering that GW is actually making another super-heavy Guard tank, it's actually wuite a surprise that their "flagship" army didn't get a superheavy vehicle of their own.

300$ is a lot though...

GW knows there is a lot of demand for plastic Thunderhawk, but their internal projected price tag is *exactly* why GW didn't release it - they didn't know if people would pay $300 (or more?) for a single plastic kit.
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dietrich wrote:I think a Warhound titan or Knight could make its debut in the next few years.

I agree that we could see a Warhound.

Knights would need more design development. Going from the old Epic designs wouldn't work in the current environment. The design would need to be updated to Lucius pattern equivalent. Expect 2+ years of FW work, 2+ years of FW testing the waters, to be followed by a plastic kit much farther down the road.

And the other big problem for Knights is the rules. Slotting below a 3 SP Warhound means a Knight must be 2 SP, Titan CCW, and 1 gun. But it can't take a Warhound-class gun, perhaps a Shadowsword / Baneblade / Hellhammer-class gun. For this, would it even make sense?
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1hadhq wrote:There is enough financial capacity available to sell hundreds of Thunderhawk kits.

Another Apoc kit with the already known Shadowsword and the possible stompa would be too much.
So we may see Thunderhawks in 2010.

Totally agreed that there is massive demand for Thunderhawks, the question is if it's enough to greenlight production.

The Stompa and Shadowsword are 1H 2009, so there's plenty of time for a 2010 holiday release.
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warpcrafter wrote:I think Knights would be an excellent fit for Space Marines,

Except, SM don't use Knights...

Knights are tied to Ad Mech Knight Houses.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Stompa and Shadowsword are 1H 2009, so there's plenty of time for a 2010 holiday release.

The is, after 2008 SM and 2009 IG, is there a 2nd wave of imperial Forces or a codex to accompany a thunderhawk?

Gw as the SW and Inq to fill slots between xenos-releases and i think the wolves would need only a upgrade-sprue.
Thus making space for a big plastic kit to come.

warpcrafter wrote: I think Knights would be an excellent fit for Space Marines

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Except, SM don't use Knights...

Knights are tied to Ad Mech Knight Houses.

Maybe not too late to hope for a AD Mech codex......

1hadhq wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
The Stompa and Shadowsword are 1H 2009, so there's plenty of time for a 2010 holiday release.

The is, after 2008 SM and 2009 IG, is there a 2nd wave of imperial Forces or a codex to accompany a thunderhawk?

GW is slowing down the overall release schedule with these "Wave 2" things, and with the volume of stuff for SM, it's clear that they will ultimately be doing multiple waves of SM.

SW haven't been updated, yet, and this a pretty conspicuous omission. So I think we'll get SW with SM Wave 2, and but I think it may be too soon for trying to push Thunderhawk. The Thunderhawk perhaps does better as a standalone holiday release, similar to the game boards.

1hadhq wrote:GW as the SW and Inq to fill slots between xenos-releases and i think the wolves would need only a upgrade-sprue.
Thus making space for a big plastic kit to come.

Agreed. Recutting and updating the SW sprue should be easy. And they're "due" for an update.
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warpcrafter wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Knights are tied to Ad Mech Knight Houses.

Maybe not too late to hope for a AD Mech codex......

Eventually, I'm sure we'll see this. I just can't guess when or how, as there are a lot of questions what GW might include here, and how AdMech "fit" with IG / SoB / SM.

My information says 2010, as the release for Planetstrike, in the same way the Baneblade was the release for Apoc.

BYE

I wonder if it will be a multi-kit to build the normal Thunderhawk as well as the tank transporter....

Ooh, good call. Hadn't thought of that.

That would be an extensive reworking of the basic chassis, though, so chances are it'd be a separate upgrade kit. Little bit like the Deff-roller for the battlewagon, only less affordable.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW continues to test price capacity in Apocalypse, and managed to sell a fairly large number of Space Marine Companies, along with some number of Chapters. So last Christmas, GW proved that players are willing to fork out hundreds of dollars for large boxes.

Mark my words, within the next 5 years, GW *will* sell a plastic Thunderhawk. Of that, there is no question in my mind.

The above quote was paraphrased.

Just a quick note. There are a couple things to consider:

Some people that have a goal of building a target list (lets say a 1750 point list) will by the big packs to save money. So GW is actually losing on those particular sales.

Also, some people will buy large sets like Black Reach just to ebay off individual units/models. And they then make a profit. I know some people that do that.

In both examples the "people are willing to pay more" attitude isn't quite right. Because in both examples people are in fact paying much less in the end for the same amount of product. I'm not suggesting that the majority of sales follow that trend. I'm only saying that you can't make a blanket statement that all people are willing to pay more for big box sets.

P.S. I think a plastic Thunderhawk could be very profitable if marketed correctly. The Baneblade has been the quintessential big tank for about 20 years now. GW finally did a plastic version, tons of people bought/buy it, and it’s making money. The Thunderhawk is the quintessential marine airborne transport and has been for about as long as the Baneblade has been around. If they hype up the Thunderhawk and promote it then it will sell big time. And I’m sure they can make a decent return on investment.

~Logic

I dunno.

By dint of it's size, and being a flier, you really need a large board to make use of it (otherwise you'll have problems landing).

I would also venture it's more a scenario specific addition than something I would take in it's own right. How so? Simple, it's a flying transport intended to drop Marines off and extract them into and out of Warzones. It's also far, far too hard to have knocking around when the enemy has limited or zero anti air defence, and even then it's a real handful.

So, possible? Yep, of course it's possible. Likely? Not so much I fear.

What would be interesting are the sales figures from Forgeworld comparing the Baneblade to the Thunderhawk. Might put things in some kind of meaningful perspective.

Anung Un Rama wrote:I wonder if it will be a multi-kit to build the normal Thunderhawk as well as the tank transporter....

Almost certainly not.

But, like the Baneblade, the parts and sprues will be designed for "convertibility", so that FW can make a mixed-plastic/resin "Arkurian"-type Thawk transporter.

So the cost of the transporter might drop from $600 to, say, $400.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:By dint of it's size, and being a flier, you really need a large board to make use of it (otherwise you'll have problems landing).

What would be interesting are the sales figures from Forgeworld comparing the Baneblade to the Thunderhawk.

It's for Apocalypse. By definition, it's going to play on a large board. Just like a Baneblade.

I'm pretty sure GW has worked the numbers for these and concluded that the Thunderhawk is a question of price vs demand. If they can get it to the right price, it will sell out.

Just interested where the 300 / 400 / 600 $ pricetags come from?

Because if i relate the size of a Thunderhawk (only looked at, so might be wrong) to any announced plastic kit,
this may be a kit of 5 sprues and around 150 € (with a big "we want your money" sign on).
Personally I think 200 € would be a border where it starts to cut the customer-base to much.
But i know also a lot of SM-players that may invest anyhow in it ( no need to use it in 40k, just "must have" ).

$600 is current price for FW resin kit
$300 is my estimate for all-plastic kit
$400 is my estimate for mixed plastic / resin follow-up kit.

My estimated kit prices are educated guesses based on what GW has done and sold to date, but not confirmed or anything.

Hmm...

BoLS has a poll on what superheavies people would like to see made in plastic.

Thawk seems to have solid demand. Too bad there isn't a priced poll to really gauge interest of buyers.

Other option for the T-hawk Transporter option. GW waits a year, sees that the basic Thawk sells well. Release a $50 sprue for the transporter that is a direct only product. Sell second round of Thawks (but a lower demand, so sell less, but still make money).

I wouldn't it put it out of the question.

Indeed, if the basic kit is already paid for, then the Transporter only needs to cover the cost of cutting the molds for the revised sprues. The basic design work will have already been paid for via FW.

If those sprues are a minority of the total sprues of the kit, then there is no price increase needed.

The only challenge for GW is figuring demand so they can cover all of their costs in the initial release.

Rumors are the stompa is the same price as the baneblade.
So when a thunderawk isn't 2x times bigger I doubt more than 200€ for it.

We may start a poll how much would be affordable.

OK, I added a poll for how much we think GW will charge.

Hmm...

BoLS had a video of someone at GW HQ assembling a preproduction version of the new plastic Thunderhawk up earlier...

Too bad the video link is down now.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Hmm...

BoLS had a video of someone at GW HQ assembling a preproduction version of the new plastic Thunderhawk up earlier...

Too bad the video link is down now.

Was it really? I've been Rickrolled one too many times and I'm not gonna take it!

The link's down now, so I guess you'll never know...

I guess I'll have to start saving up for a Pretty Marine Thunderhawk.

IMO, when compared with the newer super heavies, it should be around ... $199 range.

but knowing their customer would spend more, i bet they'll
raise it to around $249-$299

Given that more than 50% voted for plastic Thunderhawks on the recent BoLS Apoc poll, I think saving those pennies is a good idea.