If GW released a proper set of Heresy rules..

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**reds8n**

...would you buy them and any models that accompanied the series.

As has been pointed out by Mr. Gorgon and others here and there, it seems kind of baffling that GW have made no attempt to capitalise upon the success of their Heresy era novels, by releasing rules and/or models for that era.

According to the BL site tehir top selling novels for 2008 were

1. Legion
2. Battle for the Abyss
3. Mechanicum
4. Assault on Black Reach: The Novel
5. Horus Rising
6. Heldenhammer
7. Descent of Angels
8. Wolf's Honour
9. Nagash the Sorcerer
10. False Gods
11. Galaxy in Flames
12. Flight of the Eisenstein
13. Fulgrim
14. Hammer of Daemons
15. Elfslayer
16. Red Fury
17. Cain's Last Stand
18. Dark King Lightning Tower audio book
19. Brothers of the Snake
20. Malekith
21. Titanicus
22. Angels of Darkness
23. Uplifting Primer - Damocles Gulf Edition
24. Only in Death
25. Scourge the Heretic
26. The Killing Ground
27. Ravenor Rogue
28. The Blood Angels Omnibus
29. Dark Disciple
30. The Chronicles of Malus Darkblade: Volume 1

Every Golden Demon of the last few years has featured Heresy era models or primarchs, and the web is full of fan made books, from the fine work done by the Bll of Lost Souls to the excellant campiagn packs that the Tempus Fugitives produce for their events.

I think you have to register to see/download their stuff, but it's well worth a look in my opinion.

Given the perilous state of GW's finances, it does seem really really odd to me that they don't just take what seems an obvious step and run with it.

Can anyone think of any (good) reasons GW don't produce a rules set at the very least, and what would you want from a Heresy era rulebook.

Even if they didn't make stats for the Primarchs for whatever reason, I'd be very happy with "collector editions" of the Primarchs. Even if they released them with special editions of the novels. "Gotta catch them all!"... well perhaps not that, but you get the idea.

**Wolfstan**

I know one of the things that is usually thrown about it is the whole thing about the 40,000 IP, but I can't understand why this would have any affect on pre 40k themed forces. I for one would like to see rules for the Great Crusade, just imagine the races they could make!

**whatwhat**

In a way isn't it good that they haven't? I mean I enjoy seing peoples own interpretations on heresy era stuff. That would be kind of spoilt if GW layed down actual rules on what armies in that era were actually like. Maybe even the popularity of heresy era is down to self interpretation itself and having more freedom as to what you can create.

**Osbad**

The original Titan/Space Marine 6mm ruleset was set in the Horus Heresy (Blue Marines vs. Red Marines).

It was popular enough back then...

Personally I put it down to a lack of backbone on GW's part.

I think they'd do a lot more business if they came out with variant rules for their models.

Different ways to play with the same models seems like THE WIN to me!

Don't like 40k the game, but like the models? No problem try the "Horus Heresy mass battle game". Don't have time to paint up a 2000 model force? No problem! Try the "Legends of the Inqusition skirmish game" instead...

And I don't mean a sort of half-assed job like "40k in 40 minutes", but a proper, tested, consistent alternative ruleset that isn't just a stripped down/modded version of 40k - like Apocalypse is and Kill Team and Combat Patrol were.

They have said time after time that it is the models that matter to them not the game rules, so why not make more options for how to play with their models, instead of trying to straightjacket everyone into one system?

And as they've shown with Specialist Games, supporting a game with rules doesn't have to be expensive if you harness the fan community properly.

Personally I think it makes a lot of sense to have multiple flavours of rulesets available for the same models, and I don't fathom GW's objections. Sure you can homebrew anything you want, but not everyone has the time nor the skills to do such a thing.

**Osbad**

Wolfstan wrote:I for one would like to see rules for the Great Crusade, just imagine the races they could make!

Zoats, Fimir, and Squats... Luvverly!

**reds8n**

Osbad wrote:The original Titan/Space Marine 6mm ruleset was set in the Horus Heresy (Blue Marines vs. Red Marines).

Only as they messed up the R & D budget

Still might oaks etc etc

I think that Inquisitor would have been more popular if it had been played using the normal scale models. Could have had some really nice kits and bits if it had been.

Given the scope for Apoc. style battles set during the Heresy it would sem to make sense to help push that set of rules-- and models of course -- with an appendix or similar. Flog a lot more Baneblades that way I suppose.

**somecallmeJack**

I often fantasise about primarch & pre-heresy rules, but I think part of their appeal (as whatwhat was saying) is the mystery of that era in the fluff.

As much as I would like to see rules & models, I think its tempered by my desire to keep it as a mysterious 'days of yore' thing.

**Flashman**

Epic would be well suited to the Heresy era, when you had mega Space Marine legions, primarchs, titans, daemons and the like.

The model output required wouldn't be that high either, as Space Marines, good or bad, were essentially the same design. The Heresy being before the corrupting influence of chaos had taken full effect on the Traitor legions.

**reds8n**

And that's fine. But given the demonstrable success and interest in the era through the novels, is it not daft of them to not do something that a sizable section of fans clearly want.

**malfred**

You could turn the game into something like Monsterpocalypse:

Primarchs and Titans are godmachines and are the primary targets in a game.
Units can respawn as they are destroyed.

I think I'll call it... Epicpocalypse.

**Da Boss**

I would totally play that.
Especially if it came with suitably cool collapsable buildings.

**Pariah Press**

Even just a few metal boxed sets (power armour marines and terminators, custodes, etc.) would probably be a good idea. There's not even any need for a new ruleset, just a "rules expansion" or a "codex."

**Chrysaor686**

You have to keep in mind that a Heresy-era game would pretty much alienate anyone who doesn't play Space Marines or Chaos Space marines.

Heresy Era Tau? Non-existant. IG? Tyranids? Orks? Eldar? They would pretty much be the same damn thing.

Sure, if you want a nice SM vs. CSM ruleset, it would be nice. But you've gotta keep the other players in mind.

**stonefox**

I wouldn't because Tau wouldn't have existed.

**reds8n**

Chrysaor686 wrote:You have to keep in mind that a Heresy-era game would pretty much alienate anyone who doesn't play Space Marines or Chaos Space marines.

Heresy Era Tau? Non-existant. IG? Tyranids? Orks? Eldar? They would pretty much be the same damn thing.

Sure, if you want a nice SM vs. CSM ruleset, it would be nice. But you've gotta keep the other players in mind.

I take the point. Orks and Eldar would indeed be pretty much the same, but you could do some special characters-- I've blanked the name at the moment but the one that Horus threw off the roof, Abaddon was the only survivor of his bodyguard. New character moels are always nice, and tehy could add Apoc. units too.

No Tau etc either, but like all the fan codices have done you could easily use them to represent other races-- the bugs on "Murderworld" or rogue AI for example.

Guard would have quite a lot of new stuff-- they could have land raiders, jet bikes, genebred troops, all manner of lost tech or new stuff. Or even just the addition of Custodesor sisters of silence as allies would be cool.

And from a business perspective does it not make sense to continue to support your strongest selling lines ?

**Durandal**

The best approach would probably be an apoc style release with campaign, new units/lists and rules. Other then having primarchs and better technology, what else did the heresy have?

**Vandez**

The initial release could be supported so very, very easily with a single plastic sprue containing Heresy-era helmets and Boltguns. It wouldn't be perfect, but immediately it allows players to produce such armies, and would undoubtedly sell well to standard players, too.

You could probably do similar things with other kits as necessary - the plastic Cadians could probably serve as Imperial Army with a few modifications - but the most iconic part of a Heresy-era setup, as discussed, is the Astartes weapon/armour loadout. It's a great way to gauge consumer interest before getting carried away with Imperial Jetbikes, Interex Sagittars and Megarachnid Warrior Clades.

**FlatlanderBoss2.0**

Bell of Lost Souls has a home-spun Warhammer 30,000 set of rules. Including Apoc formations and the like.

And a whole campaign system set up to play over as long a time as you need to implement it.

All with their famous flair for pretty pictures and actually artistic support of the text rules.

**Fifty**

People quite happily play Ultramarine vs Ultramarine battles and Iyanden vs. Iyanden, so I think very few people would have trouble playing Pre-heresy marines vs Tau or Necrons. All you need is a Star Trek-esque tear in the space-time continuum if you feel the need to justify it.

In terms of how to present the fluff, a single "Heresy" codex/rulebook with special rules for playing heresy scenarios and special characters etc would be a big hit, I think.

**Ork**

I don't see any reason why the core rules would be any different and it's really not needed. Maybe a campaign book similar to The Eye of Terror campaign or Armageddon. They could would best off releasing 3 plastic kits. 1 preheresy space marines, 1 preheresy terminator, and then something else.

**Cryonicleech**

Malus Darkblade, at the bottom?! NOOOO!

anyway, back to buisness, like Ork said, I think a Codex: Horus Heresy, would make more sense, and then they could add new models. But wait, more space marine stuff???? I don't think so

**Waaagh_Gonads**

I'd like to see models for the primarchs.
I know a few sculptors have done their own versions for sale and they are doing quite well.

I'd be happy to pay a premium, not FW premium though, but if FW did them I'd look at buying some.

Straight away I'd buy:
The Emperor.
Sanguinius
Horus

Others as money comes depending on how cool they look...

Remember GW is a model selling company, not a games selling company.

**Waaagh_Gonads**

And are GW really in peril?

They seem a hell of alot more stable now than they were pre LOTR bubble...

**sonofruss**

They did make two primarks Russ and Guiliman on the throne of Macragge it says Calgar now but it was guiliman

**Pariah Press**

It was never Guilliman, except in your mind. It was "Lord Macragge" originally, then "Space Marine Commander," and most recently "Marneus Calgar."

**Thanatos73**

I play Heresy era Dark Angels, and one of the main draws about the army, at least for me, is the converting I get to do. Having Heresy models to buy would make things quicker, but it'd take half the fun out of it for me.

I also think 40k is too small scale for this setting. It'd have to be at least Apoc, though Epic would make more sense. Even the smallest Legion was the size of several Chapters, and they fought together frequently in the fluff. The Adeptus Mechanicus also featured heavily in Heresy era battles, from their ground units all the way up to the Titan Legions. Add in the Imperial Army to the later stages of the Crusade, and you have massive armies on the battlefield. And trying to balance the Primarchs would also require large forces I'd think.

But plastic Imperial Jetbikes would be nice...

**Squig_herder**

I have always dreamed, yes dreamed, of a codex and minis for the bodyguards of the emperor, the custodies in their golden detailed armour with eagles and the like slapped all over them