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Hey, what are people's thoughts about making a Christianity themed SM chapter? Someone at my FLGS said there was no Christianity in 40k and that people and GW shuns that. But I look at the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Sisters and see Christianity all over in them. Space Marines are even called the Angels of Death.
So my question is what would people really think? Would they really care? I'm not talking about making a model called God. Just something like humble units that wear burlap (think Dark Angels tabbards and robes in a tan/beige color with cross-hatching to look like burlap). Possibly call them, The Way. Maybe paint angel wings on the jumppacks (more like the seraphim) and possibly put shephard crooks on the librarians. Thoughts?

They would be considered heretical by the eclesiarchy, there are deep christian undertones in the 40k mythos, but christianity itself would be considered a harmful pagan religion subverting people from worship of the emperor.

pavonis wrote:Hey, what are people's thoughts about making a Christianity themed SM chapter? Someone at my FLGS said there was no Christianity in 40k and that people and GW shuns that. But I look at the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Sisters and see Christianity all over in them. Space Marines are even called the Angels of Death.
So my question is what would people really think? Would they really care? I'm not talking about making a model called God. Just something like humble units that wear burlap (think Dark Angels tabbards and robes in a tan/beige color with cross-hatching to look like burlap). Possibly call them, The Way. Maybe paint angel wings on the jumppacks (more like the seraphim) and possibly put shephard crooks on the librarians. Thoughts?

you could easily see christianity in the 40k world as long as you consider the emporer God

pavonis wrote:Hey, what are people's thoughts about making a Christianity themed SM chapter? Someone at my FLGS said there was no Christianity in 40k and that people and GW shuns that. But I look at the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Sisters and see Christianity all over in them. Space Marines are even called the Angels of Death.
So my question is what would people really think? Would they really care? I'm not talking about making a model called God. Just something like humble units that wear burlap (think Dark Angels tabbards and robes in a tan/beige color with cross-hatching to look like burlap). Possibly call them, The Way. Maybe paint angel wings on the jumppacks (more like the seraphim) and possibly put shephard crooks on the librarians. Thoughts?

you can call it w/e you want. Aslong as you stop bringing up its related to a real religion ( you said christianity )

when you see the X- Angels it doesnt have to be religion related... Angels can be used as expression to represent something doesnt have to be christianity related same as " God "

sisters of battle = christianity? the only close to it is the fleur de liese ? which the purpose represent joan of arc ( just brave women )

all those words or terms you wish to call your units are only "names" and people see it as just that... until someone decides to make a deal out of it ( which you have a choice to not to )

I highly suggest to leave religion , politic , race , gender or all the sensitive issues out of gamming . Ppl are there to enjoy games, not to care about those i just listed.

I can tell this is going to be disaster in the making . why?

Angels and Gods exist in almost EVERY RELIGION , we can just leave it at that. like i said again, its up to you to make a deal out of it been just Christianity or not , which is asking for drama.

ok, you can, just don't call it christianity, call it imperial worship or whatever they call it. THEN, just make space marines, because face it, they are already, basically, crusaders for their god (the god emperor of mankind). In my book their religion DOES have christianity 1-upped. Their god is material, and he does infact sit on a golden throne..... you might not see crosses in my house but you WILL see some aquilas i'll tell you that.

edit: Also, Lunahound has a point, pretty much every religion and form of fiction has "angels" in it. Even the religions and world of dungeons and dragons which is (or was, is it still?) pretty much hated by christianity as a whole for undermining their religious beliefs in gods. And besides, it's not like if the bible mentions something its automitically christian related is it? I mean, it refers to earth, so is that christian, as a whole no. But i digress.

Comrade Amadayeus wrote:ok, you can, just don't call it christianity, call it imperial worship or whatever they call it. THEN, just make space marines, because face it, they are already, basically, crusaders for their god (the god emperor of mankind). In my book their religion DOES have christianity 1-upped. Their god is material, and he does infact sit on a golden throne..... you might not see crosses in my house but you WILL see some aquilas i'll tell you that.

edit: Also, Lunahound has a point, pretty much every religion and form of fiction has "angels" in it. Even the religions and world of dungeons and dragons which is (or was, is it still?) pretty much hated by christianity as a whole for undermining their religious beliefs in gods. And besides, it's not like if the bible mentions something its automitically christian related is it? I mean, it refers to earth, so is that christian, as a whole no. But i digress.

exactly, i also feel the need to say this ( though i'll be branded as a heretic )

God , can generally mean an entity superior to us , something that is omnipotent beyond our human abilities. this entity doesnt need a name , a gender,religion or w/e we can just
accept it as something awesome beyond our imagination.

Angel , can generally be lesser ranked entity that is vassal to God.

Just dont be so hard core during gaming that people feels that you are promoting your religion. you know what i mean?
cuz some people DO get carried away from over zealousness thats what im worried about.



Another example would be, any guy could field sisters of battle army , does it bother anyone? no.
but if someone names, and paints them into Angry Sisters of the Bloody River ( see pic ) some girls might get offended.. though i admit its funny too...

i could be so pepal don't get mad at GM

I highly suggest to leave religion , politic , race , gender or all the sensitive issues out of gamming . Ppl are there to enjoy games, not to care about those i just listed.

Lol better not tell my friends SS Steel Legion that, or my own Nazi Marines from Dawn of War (my gaming group also has communist Tau as well). Lol, personally I find those kinds of things funny myself, but then again, Im nothing but an ignorant hick. Boo yah Seaking

Comrade Amadayeus wrote:ok, you can, just don't call it christianity, call it imperial worship or whatever they call it. THEN, just make space marines, because face it, they are already, basically, crusaders for their god (the god emperor of mankind). In my book their religion DOES have christianity 1-upped. Their god is material, and he does infact sit on a golden throne..... you might not see crosses in my house but you WILL see some aquilas i'll tell you that.

For 99.999999999% of the Imperial population the Emperor is as material as God is to Christianity. Access to the Emperor is so restricted, until GW retcons everything again, that even the Lords of Terra are forbiden from seeing him so they have to believe that there is truly a live Emperor that sits on the golden throne.

M.

I'm going to make me a Palestinian themed IG force and face them off against my IDF based chaos renegades.

Taco_bat wrote:I'm going to make me a Palestinian themed IG force and face them off against my IDF based chaos renegades.

I don't care who knows I think this post is win.

I dont think anyone would object. I mean, arent the Black Templars going in that direction already?

I think a SM chapter with religious undertones would be very flavourful.

Miguelsan wrote:

Comrade Amadayeus wrote:ok, you can, just don't call it christianity, call it imperial worship or whatever they call it. THEN, just make space marines, because face it, they are already, basically, crusaders for their god (the god emperor of mankind). In my book their religion DOES have christianity 1-upped. Their god is material, and he does infact sit on a golden throne..... you might not see crosses in my house but you WILL see some aquilas i'll tell you that.

For 99.999999999% of the Imperial population the Emperor is as material as God is to Christianity. Access to the Emperor is so restricted, until GW retcons everything again, that even the Lords of Terra are forbiden from seeing him so they have to believe that there is truly a live Emperor that sits on the golden throne.

M.

Well, not to create theological speculation, but there's pretty clear and "tangible" proof the Emperor's still alive and kicking. As long as he's around the Astronomicon stays lit. When he dies every ship in the Immaterium will have a very, very bad day.

I would NOT make a religion based chapter of any current faith. Although your intent may be pure, it just screams bad faith and arguments from those who would get offended.

They shall know no fear, nor any fighting on sundays.

Maybe you should have Church of England company which could onslaught the enemy with a serving of tea and biscuits complete with a violent leaflet campaign.

Buddhist demons anyone?

sourclams wrote:

Miguelsan wrote:

Comrade Amadayeus wrote:ok, you can, just don't call it christianity, call it imperial worship or whatever they call it. THEN, just make space marines, because face it, they are already, basically, crusaders for their god (the god emperor of mankind). In my book their religion DOES have christianity 1-upped. Their god is material, and he does infact sit on a golden throne..... you might not see crosses in my house but you WILL see some aquilas i'll tell you that.

For 99.999999999% of the Imperial population the Emperor is as material as God is to Christianity. Access to the Emperor is so restricted, until GW retcons everything again, that even the Lords of Terra are forbiden from seeing him so they have to believe that there is truly a live Emperor that sits on the golden throne.

M.

Well, not to create theological speculation, but there's pretty clear and "tangible" proof the Emperor's still alive and kicking. As long as he's around the Astronomicon stays lit. When he dies every ship in the Immaterium will have a very, very bad day.

But that´s my point, you have to believe that the Emperor is at his throne in Terra because some guys at the space guilds say they navigate using his powers and another really higher higher up says that he comunicated with him last time he visited Terra, even for most, perhaps all, SM Chapter Masters don´t have a tangible proof of the Emperor. They report to the Adeptus Terra bosses not to the Emperor.

M.

pavonis wrote:Hey, what are people's thoughts about making a Christianity themed SM chapter? Someone at my FLGS said there was no Christianity in 40k and that people and GW shuns that. But I look at the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Sisters and see Christianity all over in them. Space Marines are even called the Angels of Death.
So my question is what would people really think? Would they really care? I'm not talking about making a model called God. Just something like humble units that wear burlap (think Dark Angels tabbards and robes in a tan/beige color with cross-hatching to look like burlap). Possibly call them, The Way. Maybe paint angel wings on the jumppacks (more like the seraphim) and possibly put shephard crooks on the librarians. Thoughts?

Christianity? In 40K?

What do I think?
I think that if you want to do something like this, that you should think long and hard about it, or better yet, that you should leave this subject alone...
40K has alot of religious undertones, but when you start putting real life connotation to your gaming, you are seriously limiting yourself with what you can do with the material on hand, and you are either 1. You are trying to drama up the situation by playing on peoples belief system, or 2. You are really just trying to be clever, and, knowing common sense, you are just testing the water to see if you will get as much of a rise out of complete strangers that you already know that you will get from your gaming group.

Seriously, if you want to put your beliefs out there for public view, be ready for what it brings. Some people will take it as you trying to infuse religion into thier gaming experience, and take offense to it. Some might not care. Still some might be thoroughly offended. Just Like if you were TFG that wants to come to the table with the SS Nazi army, and you have one or two in the group that may have had some sort of negative incidence happen IRL.

People are funny like that, and in the real world, it pays to not be TFG that tries to be clever, then ends up starting all sorts of drama over issues that, seriously need to be kept out of the FLGS, and off of the shop game table. Playing at home is one thing, you can do whatever you want, there. In public, No. Leave that idea alone and keep your local gaming shop friendly.

Part of the fun of fantasy and speculative fiction is to see analogies to history and
contemporary times. However, the more literal you get with your analogies, the less
interesting it becomes. It's the difference between making the Federation a utopian
democracy/UN and giving the Federation the exact same rules/powers/etc. except
giving them aliens and starships.

One is an interesting view of the world presented through fiction.

The other is a veneer.

Part of the fun of Space Marines is how knightly they are in their devotion and
rituals. They have characters given names that are biblical (Chief Librarian Ezekiel
anyone?), but they stop short of making the comparisons literal.

Another example would be the Protectorate of Menoth in Warmachine. They're a
fundamentalist monotheistic group that mixes elements of our current Monotheistic
groups. Most obvious are ornamental connections to Greek Orthodox (censer
bearing and the like), a characterful god like Old Testament Jehovah (Menoth!),
and suicidal bomb carrying Zealots (like any good fundy would be!). And let's
not even talk about the Wracks and Monolith Bearers.

I am personally offended by [insert theme] and think [insert theme] is in poor taste.

Please fill in the blanks as I am too outraged and indignant to do it myself.

I know that religious iconography has disqualified models from GW competitions before. However that's not always the case, so it's really up to the organizers.

A person who plays for the fluff (or the enactment of the fluff) will be put off by it, and anyone else probably won't care.

It's not at all like putting swastikas or writing racial slurs across your vehicles, since we are bombarded with christian iconography in everyday life, so this would just be another place for it. A lot like putting a bumper sticker on your car.

The ops suggestions are really quite tasteful for how to do this. So I'd say go for it.

Moz wrote:

It's not at all like putting swastikas or writing racial slurs across your vehicles

Don't worry there are plenty of warhams who will do this.

(the secret ingredient is anti-semitism)

What if its a person with an Islamist oriented army? What if he then has a few suicide bombers mixed in?

If you avoided obvious iconography and didnt actualy say the word christianity i would have no problems, but if you had dudes holding crosses i would start to get annoyed with you. if you called your marines christian i would be downright offended.
So it would probably be best if you think about this and if you are sure about it then it would be better to just have them as super zealous sm that fight to avenge a matyred primarch (son of the emperor who is effectively god in 40k). Parralels to christianity= ok but actual christianity in gaming= not ok

To the OP:
Just speaking from a 'Fluff' point of view and to paraphrase...The emperor wants warriors, not worshippers. That's the reason the Word Bearers turned to chaos when their primarch was rebuked by the emperor.

On the reality side of things, you'll do what you want. Anything else I say will be speculation on what your reasons for doing this would be. If you're someone that's devout, religious or church going and you feel awkward playing the game, unless you design an Army around your beliefs, then I'd say: either don't play the game at all (in order that you don't violate your beliefs) or don't feel guilty about playing the game period.
If on the other hand you're not religious, devout or church going I can't imagine why you'd want to theme an army like this at all. Doing so will likely bring lots of flak your way unnecessarily, from people that are both 'god-less' and 'god-fearing' unless that's what you're after.

You've obviously had some discussions concerning this with your FLGS. All I can say is do what you're comfortable doing. I suppose there's lots more that can be said but I'll leave it as is.

Frazzled wrote:What if its a person with an Islamist oriented army? What if he then has a few suicide bombers mixed in?

but suicide bombers aren't used along side actual combatants, thats part of their draw.

This thread is generating a lot of interest...you guys seem to have a real interest in the religion/warhammer 40K debate.

GW have ripped off so much Christian history and iconography.

black templars - crusading chapter - order of malta cross as their insignia

blood angels and dark angels - all that winged creature stuff - plus the whole BA communion cup thing

Heresy - Betrayal - Resurrection - Angels - Armageddon - Apocalypse - Daemons - light in the darkness...the bible had it all first!

GW have just been genius and taken all the history and repackaged it to make it innoffensive, but its almost the same stories being replayed, just without the hope of salvation that the bible talks about.

but i don't think that a religion based chapter would be a great idea for 40k

Religion and politics just upsets people, particularly when they're not expecting to confront it. There's a time and a place for everything and I would suggest that it's best to raise such topics when people are open to discussion. Warhammer is a hobby and primarily an opportunity to chill out and escape the real world. Things in warhammer are inspired by the real world and this allows us to relate to it. But putting real world religion into the game is unnecessary and will likely come across as someone pushing an agenda.

I challenge anyone to make a Buddhist themed army, they don't fight, they just meditate the enemy into submission

s.j.mccartney wrote:
Heresy - Betrayal - Resurrection - Angels - Armageddon - Apocalypse - Daemons - light in the darkness...the bible had it all first!

actually the bible is just "repackaging" of even older stories and myths.

P4NC4K3 wrote:I challenge anyone to make a Buddhist themed army, they don't fight, they just meditate the enemy into submission

a large portion of the Japnese military in WW2 were buddhist they sure were nic oh wait.