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What's the feeling on Flesh Hounds at the moment?

At 15 points a pop, they seem pretty solid.

 dan2026 wrote:
What's the feeling on Flesh Hounds at the moment?

At 15 points a pop, they seem pretty solid.

Last four games I ran them in one unit of 20 as a screen. They were AMAZING as a melee alpha strike screening unit, the only problem I ran into was warping the giant unit around terrain LOL. I'm dropping down to either 2x8 units or 1x10, but only because I'm also trying to use CSM and need the points. I feel 2x8 or 3x5 are the "optimal" amount.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What's the feeling on Flesh Hounds at the moment?

At 15 points a pop, they seem pretty solid.

Last four games I ran them in one unit of 20 as a screen. They were AMAZING as a melee alpha strike screening unit, the only problem I ran into was warping the giant unit around terrain LOL. I'm dropping down to either 2x8 units or 1x10, but only because I'm also trying to use CSM and need the points. I feel 2x8 or 3x5 are the "optimal" amount.

Good to know. I can't wait to get my doges back on the table. They were hard to stomach at 20 a piece. I wonder if a list could be built around 40 or so as a hammer to the anvil of a couple deepstriking bombs (say, horrors and bloodletters?) Or are they not hammer-y enough to fit that role?

Alright finish off this here list for me folks. Gonna go dive deep in to the warp and give my soul to the dark lords of chaos, but i need to figure otu the one last thing to fit into the list. Don't want alot of list critic but if you have a sick idea lay it on me:

Basicly it's fill in the blank:

Battlation
****Blank****
Great unclean one Bilesword + flail (most likely deep striking)
4x nurglings
4x nurglings
3x nurglings

Battlation
LoC w/ balesword, Warlord: incoporial, and impossible robe (deep striking)
Change caster
30x pink horrors (deep striking)
10x brimstones
10x brimstones

Battlion (khorne)
Daemon Prince of khorne demonic axe (depending on opponent list i'll use a CP to equip him with the axe)
Blood master
30x bloodletters w/ icon +instrument
10x bloodletters
10x bloodletters

Question 1.
What do i put in the blank??? i've been considering a Nurgle or Tzneetch daemon prince. With the nurgle prince with claws. He can recieve the virulence blessing buff and make great use of it, and double down on the nurgle locus; or use nurgles rot and wade into a horde to hit as many units as possible. The tzneetch prince could have boon of change or gaze of fate: Boon of change is a ltitle week but it works really well on the LoC and Daemon prince for both taking them past serval important stat hurdles. Gaze of fate is our way of generating CP as we basicly can get a free command point reroll per turn.

question 2.
Should i make the khorne detachment a mixed detachment?? I know the lovus of reroll just about garentees the charge, but the blood letters already ahve a 83% chance ot make it into combat and with CP rerolls or gaze of rate it's almost as strong as a full reroll. I would use this to add another squad of pink horrors and some nurglings to the list.

Why are you taking the GUO...
Or the LoC....
or squads of 10 letters?
Or Bloodmaster instead of skulltaker?

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why are you taking the GUO...
Or the LoC....

Why not? They might not be the super units like Mortarion or Magnus, but they have a lot of staying power, can use deep strike and are serious psykers with melee capabilities.

"They might not be the super units like Mortarion or Magnus"
Stopped reading there.
All they do is die and give away VPs. Just take hordes + characters and see your opponent's anti-tank shooting into 1 wound units and to control the board better for objectives and to prevent deepstrikes.
What do greater daemons do? +3 leadership. Wow-wee.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"They might not be the super units like Mortarion or Magnus"
Stopped reading there.
All they do is die and give away VPs. Just take hordes + characters and see your opponent's anti-tank shooting into 1 wound units and to control the board better for objectives and to prevent deepstrikes.
What do greater daemons do? +3 leadership. Wow-wee.

If you stopped reading there, I don't see any reason to discuss the topic with you.

Whilst the LoC I can see some use to: 3++ re-rolling 1s staying power, +2 to psychic tests and average damage output, but I can't see the use of GUOs: slow moving, average damage output (less if you don't have buffs) and good staying power. However just having good staying power isn't enough in an edition where things doe so easily, it needs to actually do something as well.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Whilst the LoC I can see some use to: 3++ re-rolling 1s staying power, +2 to psychic tests and average damage output, but I can't see the use of GUOs: slow moving, average damage output (less if you don't have buffs) and good staying power. However just having good staying power isn't enough in an edition where things doe so easily, it needs to actually do something as well.

The GUO is slightly better in melee than the LoC. Also his spells are not bad for debuffing units. If he comes in via deep strike, it could be quite problematic to remove him before he kills something.

i understand rvd1 point of view, this edition is made for "hordes" big guys suffers a lot too much multi damage high strenght weapons around, in my personal experience more and average is better than few and strong. Btw still LOC can have a place just dont expect too much from him and expect in some matches he can leave the table early, personally i stopped play "big models" like Mortarion Magnus GD's and so so, i stay stick to my infantry supported by some characters and couple of Dp's easy to hide behind 60 plaguebearers or brimstones, at least most of my opponent antitank is wasted.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Astmeister wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Whilst the LoC I can see some use to: 3++ re-rolling 1s staying power, +2 to psychic tests and average damage output, but I can't see the use of GUOs: slow moving, average damage output (less if you don't have buffs) and good staying power. However just having good staying power isn't enough in an edition where things doe so easily, it needs to actually do something as well.

The GUO is slightly better in melee than the LoC. Also his spells are not bad for debuffing units. If he comes in via deep strike, it could be quite problematic to remove him before he kills something.

in you play mono Nurgle is not easy get the GUO charge something valuable, you dont have decent fire to remove screening units and often ur GUO get in melee with unwhorty targets like coscripts, brimstones, cultists

But the list on the top is not mono nurgle.

 Astmeister wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"They might not be the super units like Mortarion or Magnus"
Stopped reading there.
All they do is die and give away VPs. Just take hordes + characters and see your opponent's anti-tank shooting into 1 wound units and to control the board better for objectives and to prevent deepstrikes.
What do greater daemons do? +3 leadership. Wow-wee.

If you stopped reading there, I don't see any reason to discuss the topic with you.

I didn't ACTUALLY stop there... It's a forum joke/thing. They're just not worth it.

The list being discussed isn't mono nurgle.

It has the chaff removing capability to drop the GUO in a turn later onto something juicy.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"They might not be the super units like Mortarion or Magnus"
Stopped reading there.
All they do is die and give away VPs. Just take hordes + characters and see your opponent's anti-tank shooting into 1 wound units and to control the board better for objectives and to prevent deepstrikes.
What do greater daemons do? +3 leadership. Wow-wee.

If you stopped reading there, I don't see any reason to discuss the topic with you.

I didn't ACTUALLY stop there... It's a forum joke/thing. They're just not worth it.

Your answer sounded like you really stopped reading. Because I already gave a few reasons why you could use the GUO and the LoC. I am of course aware that the +3 to Ld is not very amazing. You have a valid point in saying that you can mitigate the enemies heavy weapons by using only infantry models. However, most non troops demons have more than 1 wound anyway, so I am not sure that this will work. Or are you seriously proposing to use just Horrors/Demonettes/Bloodletters/Pleaguebearers? This would be pretty boring...

So even though we're not talking about mono Nurgle lists, can we talk about mono Nurgle lists...? I've got a whole bunch of Nurgle stuff for AoS and it would be good to make them pull double duty in 40k too. Any tips? Presumably it's worth me looking at DG stuff too, for a bit of fire support?

@vomikron

Start with Epidemius, scrivener, bilepiper and poxbringer.
Add 90 plaguebearers, handful of units of nurglings.

You now have a super hard core. (and 9cp for double battalion)
Add plague drones/beasts of nurgle/poxriders to taste.

If you go with Beasts then tack snailboy on and some trees. TBH trees are probably worth it regardless of snailboy

I am having trouble trying to figure out how or if it's worth running seekers of slaanesh. I play an undivided deamon army so no loci, but seekers just seem underwhelming to me. They are fast but don't have the toughness / strength / or armor to really look like they can do much vs say fiends of slaanesh. Does anyone have any experience with how to the run them right now? Even sticking a Herald on them doesn't seem all that effective for the points. This sucks cause I like the models any have 6 of them.

Sneggy wrote:
@vomikron

Start with Epidemius, scrivener, bilepiper and poxbringer.
Add 90 plaguebearers, handful of units of nurglings.

You now have a super hard core. (and 9cp for double battalion)
Add plague drones/beasts of nurgle/poxriders to taste.

If you go with Beasts then tack snailboy on and some trees. TBH trees are probably worth it regardless of snailboy

Haha well this isnt far from what I’ve already got painted, so that’s a bonus! What’s the new GUO/Rotigus like? The best loadout in AoS is bell/blade, but that doesn’t look to be the case in 40k.

The GUO and Rotigus in a vacuum are ok. The problem is Nurgle doesn't like vacuums.
Everything else in your army wants anti-infantry firepower aimed at it. Which means when you put the big boy down all the enemies anti-tank will point at it. Resulting in a large dead nurgly dude. If you're bringing monsters in 40k you want to bring a lot of monsters. As nurgle works well with infantry saturation the big dudes suffer.

Bell is good for its regenerative properties. Its obnoxious to bring back drones and beasts with. You do trade out some punch for it though.
Depends on what you want the GUO to do. Punch version is sword and flail. Support version is bell and blade

I cannot fathom what the GUO is supposed to do.
Nurgle in general looks ok but not stellar. It seems to be full of potential force dividers, take a middle of the road unit throw its points or more of buffing at it and get something on par with stuff other Gods/Factions get as is.

I noticed that you can deep strike Horticulus Slimux 9” from an enemy unit, and then immediately afterwards plant a Feculent Gnarlmaw within 3”, which means the Gnarlmaw can be placed within 3” of the enemy unit.

If you manage to succeed your charge with Slimux (and a couple of Beasts of Nurgle), next turn you will force your opponent to choose between two Mortal Wounds triggers. Or he falls back and suffers them from Horticulus and his Beasts, or if doesn't fall back he will be in MW range from the Feculent Gnarlmaw.

Not a game winning strategy but an extra way of annoying your opponent

Sneggy wrote:
The GUO and Rotigus in a vacuum are ok. The problem is Nurgle doesn't like vacuums.
Everything else in your army wants anti-infantry firepower aimed at it. Which means when you put the big boy down all the enemies anti-tank will point at it. Resulting in a large dead nurgly dude. If you're bringing monsters in 40k you want to bring a lot of monsters. As nurgle works well with infantry saturation the big dudes suffer.

Bell is good for its regenerative properties. Its obnoxious to bring back drones and beasts with. You do trade out some punch for it though.
Depends on what you want the GUO to do. Punch version is sword and flail. Support version is bell and blade

I totally agree with what you are saying but the math doe of doesnt. If you math out the GUO and how many shots it takes to put him down with Las cannon and woth rapid fire weapons in rapid fire range (which is about where he'll want to start on my list). 243 guards men is how many you need to down him or about 972.

Then we look at Las cannons and you'll need an average of 34.7 of those or 867 points which actualy isn't much of an advantage.

Usually this gap is about double. However than to the invulns and resilience that gap is almost completely removed. Add in that when he comes down he can attempt to miasma him, and you can warp surge him if you are really scared for its safety. He becomes a rather durable model who requires an entire armies worth of fire power or more to maybe kill.

Now that goes away if i try to do the monster mash like you say. I can't warp surge or miasma 2 GUOs, and I can't put the impossible robes in 2 fate weavers, but it doesn't matter because shooting your Las cannons at them is quite so cost effective, and weapons like plasma guns or plasma weapon s where it be come s just as point effort to shoot a blood letter as it is to shoot one of the two big guys.

TlDR: when he drops down the GUO requires entire armies worth of shooting to kill (about 1900pts of the best shooting the game has). While the Loc is actualy more cost effectively killed with rapid fire weaponry that isn't plasma.

 Hrudian wrote:
I noticed that you can deep strike Horticulus Slimux 9” from an enemy unit, and then immediately afterwards plant a Feculent Gnarlmaw within 3”, which means the Gnarlmaw can be placed within 3” of the enemy unit.

If you manage to succeed your charge with Slimux (and a couple of Beasts of Nurgle), next turn you will force your opponent to choose between two Mortal Wounds triggers. Or he falls back and suffers them from Horticulus and his Beasts, or if doesn't fall back he will be in MW range from the Feculent Gnarlmaw.

Not a game winning strategy but an extra way of annoying your opponent

That’s not annoying, that’s a gift. You suicide slimux for the chance to do what? A single mortal wound?

snottlebocket wrote:

 Hrudian wrote:
I noticed that you can deep strike Horticulus Slimux 9” from an enemy unit, and then immediately afterwards plant a Feculent Gnarlmaw within 3”, which means the Gnarlmaw can be placed within 3” of the enemy unit.

If you manage to succeed your charge with Slimux (and a couple of Beasts of Nurgle), next turn you will force your opponent to choose between two Mortal Wounds triggers. Or he falls back and suffers them from Horticulus and his Beasts, or if doesn't fall back he will be in MW range from the Feculent Gnarlmaw.

Not a game winning strategy but an extra way of annoying your opponent

That’s not annoying, that’s a gift. You suicide slimux for the chance to do what? A single mortal wound?

Well, in my case Horticulus will deepstrike together with the support of 4 Beasts of Nurgle, 30 Plaguebearers, a GUO and a walking Daemon Prince. Like I said, nothing gamechanging but it struck me you could plant the tree right after deepstriking.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why are you taking the GUO...
Or the LoC....
or squads of 10 letters?
Or Bloodmaster instead of skulltaker?

as above both the GUO and LoC are very durable models and together it's hard to take out both let alone one when you look at the above number information. the GUO when he comes down require entire armies of some fo the ebst shooting avaible to reliably kill, and similar is true for the LoC who needs at least 1400pts of dedicated shooting to finish off.

The squads of 10 blood letters are thier to fill battlaion for 3 cp that are spent of the 30 deep striking blood letters. As is one of the question i'm not sure i like the 10 bloodletter they are only there to make a khorne detachment for reroll charges and other than that they act as chaffe for the daemon princes to hide in, and as objective grabers. As per one of the question i asked, is it worth having the khorne detachment or would it be better to bust it down and take more pink horrors by making it a mixed detachment. I kinda wished you would have just answered that question instead... it would have been more constructive... and would have answered my question...

Why would i take the skulltaker??? he cost more point than the blood master, for a unit that wont be charging turn 1, provides no needed buffs to my bloodletter bomb that's already hitting oin 2s, and all i want is +1 str so i can would GEQ on 2s or plague marine level stuff on 3s if i need to, which is way more signigant than anything a skulltaker can bring. If it's just for the +1 to hit buff?? i'd rather spend 70 point on 10 more blood letters actualy getting into combat turn one and doing thier damage, while also providing +1 to hit than skull taker for 84pts who does nothing turn 1 and is probably alone turn 2....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Whilst the LoC I can see some use to: 3++ re-rolling 1s staying power, +2 to psychic tests and average damage output, but I can't see the use of GUOs: slow moving, average damage output (less if you don't have buffs) and good staying power. However just having good staying power isn't enough in an edition where things doe so easily, it needs to actually do something as well.

durability the GUO is about up there with morty. he last that armor save which is not insignifgant, but in that he becomes considerable more vulnerable to las cannon and such. The GUO cost ~155pts less than morty but has the same wounds/toughness/ifell no pain/-1 to invulnerablewhich all makes him more durable to las cannon fire than morty is, and with rumored exclusive access to warp surge and denizens he is a absolute tank compared to morty whjo can get sniped off the table on the first turn. From that damage wise point for point t heres some trade offs for sure. the GUO against big thing for the points just put in more work and that before you throw on virulence bless and notice the nurgle locus making him even more powerful. Smaller thing morty has the grenade that could trade off with the flail and he has the reaping attack that the GUO sort of doesn't have until you realize the GUO has shrivel pox, nurgles rot, and stream of curroption that he can tach into against armies where either spell is more powerful which more often than not will out pace plague wind and curse of the leper. That said morty has better range on his spell.

So i think under that comparison i give the nod to the GUO, while he might be alittle less punch against hordes of stuff atleast you'll get to play with the thing for a turn or two before it dies unlike morty who dies turn one against most list if your opponent goes first. Interestingly morty has been in competive list and has placed well

Small 5 man squads of Khorne Dogs rocking round with a Skullmaster could be cool.

The dogs cover the Herald and the Herald gives the dogs +1S and a charge reroll.

The dogs are there to soak up shots and overwatch and act as a barrier for the Herald, but they can hold their own in a fight too.

 dan2026 wrote:
Small 5 man squads of Khorne Dogs rocking round with a Skullmaster could be cool.

The dogs cover the Herald and the Herald gives the dogs +1S and a charge reroll.

The dogs are there to soak up shots and overwatch and act as a barrier for the Herald, but they can hold their own in a fight too.

That could work but it's somewhat slow and isn't tough, so you'd better have plenty of other threats on the board or that's going to be deleted.

i dont know where you play but... mathammer make me laugh,,,did you forget how many stratagems/psy powers/abilities exist making weapons far more lethal? re rolls, plus to damage, malus to saves, weapons causing mortal wounds in addition to normal damage.. should i go on?

mmimzie wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Why are you taking the GUO...
Or the LoC....
or squads of 10 letters?
Or Bloodmaster instead of skulltaker?

as above both the GUO and LoC are very durable models and together it's hard to take out both let alone one when you look at the above number information. the GUO when he comes down require entire armies of some fo the ebst shooting avaible to reliably kill, and similar is true for the LoC who needs at least 1400pts of dedicated shooting to finish off.

The squads of 10 blood letters are thier to fill battlaion for 3 cp that are spent of the 30 deep striking blood letters. As is one of the question i'm not sure i like the 10 bloodletter they are only there to make a khorne detachment for reroll charges and other than that they act as chaffe for the daemon princes to hide in, and as objective grabers. As per one of the question i asked, is it worth having the khorne detachment or would it be better to bust it down and take more pink horrors by making it a mixed detachment. I kinda wished you would have just answered that question instead... it would have been more constructive... and would have answered my question...

Why would i take the skulltaker??? he cost more point than the blood master, for a unit that wont be charging turn 1, provides no needed buffs to my bloodletter bomb that's already hitting oin 2s, and all i want is +1 str so i can would GEQ on 2s or plague marine level stuff on 3s if i need to, which is way more signigant than anything a skulltaker can bring. If it's just for the +1 to hit buff?? i'd rather spend 70 point on 10 more blood letters actualy getting into combat turn one and doing thier damage, while also providing +1 to hit than skull taker for 84pts who does nothing turn 1 and is probably alone turn 2....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Whilst the LoC I can see some use to: 3++ re-rolling 1s staying power, +2 to psychic tests and average damage output, but I can't see the use of GUOs: slow moving, average damage output (less if you don't have buffs) and good staying power. However just having good staying power isn't enough in an edition where things doe so easily, it needs to actually do something as well.

durability the GUO is about up there with morty. he last that armor save which is not insignifgant, but in that he becomes considerable more vulnerable to las cannon and such. The GUO cost ~155pts less than morty but has the same wounds/toughness/ifell no pain/-1 to invulnerablewhich all makes him more durable to las cannon fire than morty is, and with rumored exclusive access to warp surge and denizens he is a absolute tank compared to morty whjo can get sniped off the table on the first turn. From that damage wise point for point t heres some trade offs for sure. the GUO against big thing for the points just put in more work and that before you throw on virulence bless and notice the nurgle locus making him even more powerful. Smaller thing morty has the grenade that could trade off with the flail and he has the reaping attack that the GUO sort of doesn't have until you realize the GUO has shrivel pox, nurgles rot, and stream of curroption that he can tach into against armies where either spell is more powerful which more often than not will out pace plague wind and curse of the leper. That said morty has better range on his spell.

So i think under that comparison i give the nod to the GUO, while he might be alittle less punch against hordes of stuff atleast you'll get to play with the thing for a turn or two before it dies unlike morty who dies turn one against most list if your opponent goes first. Interestingly morty has been in competive list and has placed well

Mortarion also has access to Blades of Putrefaction, Death to the False Emperor, and Veterans of the Long War. If he's within range of a Daemon Prince's bubble, he's generating an extra attack (and remember, these are those hideously powerful attacks from Silence) on to-hit rolls of 5+, and extra mortal wounds on to-wound rolls of 5+. He's super-duper killy and can easily delete a 30-model unit of GEQs a turn by himself.