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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/09 15:43:22
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090209/ts_csm/oqatarchurch
DOHA, Qatar – When the Rev. Tomasito Veneracion arrived in this Muslim nation seven years ago, his Roman Catholic parishioners prayed in small groups scattered in apartments, schools, and one tiny makeshift chapel. At Easter, Indian Catholics gathered in one place, Filipinos in another, Arabs in yet another.
But with last year's opening of Our Lady of the Rosary Church, his congregants for the first time had a recognized, central place to worship. On Christmas Eve, 15,000 attended a midnight mass, with those who couldn't cram into the 2,700-seat church watching on video screens outside.
"When I first came here, the church was not recognized. But now we are enjoying this gift," Father Veneracion says. "It's a tremendous feeling of relief that we can breathe, worship, and pray in a place without fear and without disturbance."
The decision to permit church building is widely seen as part of an effort by Qatar's leader, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani, to modernize the tiny emirate, made wealthy by its natural-gas reserves, and demonstrate traditional Islam's flexibility and tolerance.
"It's showing the world they are open to new ideas, and I guess it's part of growing up as a nation," said Veneracion.
Our Lady of the Rosary will soon be joined by several churches under construction in what is informally known as "Church City," a 99-acre site leased to Christian denominations by the Qatar government.
Qatar's Christians, estimated at 70,000 to 80,000, are almost entirely expatriate workers, principally from India and the Philippines.
The move gave Qatar its first church since Islam took root here in the 7th century. It also brought Qatar into line with most of its Gulf neighbors, which have all had at least one church for decades. The one exception is Saudi Arabia, whose inflexible strain of Islam still bans worship of another faith.
Diplomats in Riyadh say, however, that a more relaxed atmosphere has emerged in recent years. Private services in homes are disrupted far less often, and fewer Christians are arrested, diplomats report. Customs agents no longer confiscate Bibles and crucifixes from arriving foreigners.
Though Qatar is not a pioneer in permitting an open Christian presence in the Gulf, it is bucking a massive ultraconservative drift in contemporary Islam around the world that rejects cooperation with other faiths. Al Qaeda spokesmen have berated Qatar for authorizing church construction.
Qatar's 200,000 citizens, who enjoyed the world's highest per capita income as of 2007, adhere to the same Islamic legal tradition as Saudi Arabians. But they differ in practice, being far more relaxed about publicly enforcing a strict social and moral code.
Most Qataris "are happy with what we're doing because they are devout Muslims and they want their Christian employees to be able to pray," said the Rev. Canon Bill Schwartz, Anglican rector of Doha's Church of the Epiphany.
Mr. Schwartz is overseeing construction of the Anglican church complex going up next door to the Catholic compound. Under an agreement with the government, the facility will also be used by several other Protestant and Evangelical denominations. Schwartz anticipates that it will serve 20,000 worshipers in any given week.
The complex, likely to cost around $12 million and take years to complete, is being built in stages. Schwartz is hopeful the first phase can be ready for use by the end of 2009. "We're asking for money from anybody who'll give it to us," he says. "It is very much a work of faith, including on the part of the contractor."
Schwartz ministers to a dispersed congregation of about 30 nationalities. On Fridays, the day of worship for all faiths in Qatar, he presides at services in a school gym. But scores of other services are held in villas, hotels, and restaurants, he says.
Besides the Anglican and Roman Catholic compounds, buildings are also under construction for Copts, Greek Orthodox, and Indian Protestants at the leased site about eight miles from downtown Doha.
The government's move to permit church building, which began to surface after it established diplomatic relations with the Vatican in 2002, was controversial among Qataris. A final decision was taken only after a 2003 referendum approving the country's new Constitution, which guarantees freedom of worship.
Also, Qatar-based Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who has wide influence in the Middle East, ruled that Christians have a right to build a church in Muslim lands, just as Muslims are permitted to construct mosques in non-Muslim countries.
Both Schwartz and Veneracion, who wear their clerical collars when visiting government offices, but not elsewhere, say that they have not encountered hostility.
"The government asks us to be discreet," says Schwartz, which is why none of the churches have exterior bells or crosses. Christian proselytizing is forbidden.
Veneracion said that Qatar's prime minister attended last March's ribbon-cutting ceremony at his church, whose $15 million cost was financed mostly by Catholics living in the Gulf states.
The next day's consecration of the building was attended by six bishops, 40 priests, and congregants from 67 nations, who carried their flags in a parade.
"We have 16 masses on Friday alone" with an average attendance of about 8,000, said Veneracion, who is Filipino and has a staff of five other priests. Masses are said in Konkani, English, Tagalog, Sinhala, Arabic, Malayalan, Urdu, Tamil, French, and Italian.
During a recent visit to the church, a police car was stationed outside. It is there 24 hours a day, Veneracion says, to protect against any untoward incident.
A group of young Lebanese Catholics socializing in the sun-filled plaza said they were thrilled to have a worship place of their own.
"You know, the church is first a community before being a stone place," said Maroun Nassar, an electrical engineer who runs the Arabic catechism classes. "But now, we can gather officially without offending the Qataris."
The next day, Indonesian Catholics gathered in one of the small church halls for a belated Christmas service. There were two decorated trees, and the choir, accompanied by an electric keyboard, sang "It Came Upon a Midnight Clear."
"You cannot imagine," said engineer Adi Dwinanto when asked how he felt about the new church. "It's just amazing, that here in this country we can do this freely.... All of us are happy, for sure."
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/09 16:41:39
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Good for Qatar. I knew a girl from Qatar when I was in middle school. Smart as a whip and spoke like four languages.
Not to get overly sentimental, but like 90% of what Muslims and Christians (and jews for that matter) believe are the same. There's probably more difference in practice between a Mormon and a Catholic than there is between a Jew and Muslim. Of course, the devil is in the details.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/09 16:48:45
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Yep. Besides converting through ideas and debate is so much more fun than through the sword, or just letting everyone be how they want to be. What a concept.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/10 10:50:37
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Battleship Captain
The Land of the Rising Sun
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I can´t understand how the big I allowed this very serious deviation of the Cult of the Emperor to happen. Does anyone know when the SoB will be cleansing the place?
M.
PD: And then purge it from orbit, you can never be sure when this cults are truly erradicated.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/10 10:51:53
Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/10 17:14:35
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Technically, Islam considers both Jews and Christians to be 'of the book' (I don't remember the exact phrase) which means they are semi-co-religionists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/10 21:27:08
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Major
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Good for them. Makes a great change from this country where there is an extreme wave of racism from certain area of the press should anybody non Christian try to be anything other than seen and not heard let alone set up a mosque.
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"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 00:39:31
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Polonius wrote:Not to get overly sentimental, but like 90% of what Muslims and Christians (and jews for that matter) believe are the same. There's probably more difference in practice between a Mormon and a Catholic than there is between a Jew and Muslim. Of course, the devil is in the details.
EDITED to avoid flamewar John disagrees.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:41:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 00:41:05
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Kilkrazy wrote:Technically, Islam considers both Jews and Christians to be 'of the book' (I don't remember the exact phrase) which means they are semi-co-religionists.
IIRC, it's something like:
- it's good that Jews and Christians worship the correct God, but..
- they're doing it *completely* wrong!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 00:45:18
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Sslimey Sslyth
Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.
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In the Grim Darkness of the present on planet earth, there is only....WAR.
...dont get your hopes up.
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I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!
The best 40k page in the Universe
COMMORRAGH |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 14:23:41
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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JohnHwangDD wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:Technically, Islam considers both Jews and Christians to be 'of the book' (I don't remember the exact phrase) which means they are semi-co-religionists.
IIRC, it's something like:
- it's good that Jews and Christians worship the correct God, but..
- they're doing it *completely* wrong!
It means that Jews and Christians are allowed to live in Islamic lands without being persecuted, though I think they have to pay an extra tax or something. I don't know the details.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 14:36:10
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Actually it depends on the country.
Non-Muslims indeed have to pay a special tax under Sharia law. In the real world they also face persecution and prosecution of varying levels. In some countries it is punishable by death to convert to a different faith, or even to prosletize a different faith.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 16:05:55
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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There are sinners in all religions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 19:11:32
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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EDITED to avoid flamewar
The minimum requirements of Sharia are:
1) The pole tax. Basically a head tax on anyone of a faith other than Islam that is also 'of the revelation'.
2) No new places of worship may be built, but old ones may be maintained.
3) No law which applies to a Muslim applies to an infidel. For example, it is acceptable for Christians/Jews to consume alcohol, but not acceptable for a Muslim to do so. In the old days this lead to Christian Monasteries turning into something akin to American speak-easys.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:42:16
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 19:30:51
Subject: Re:Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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Pffft!
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 19:52:53
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Interesting thing is....
Sharia Law simply does not exist.
Sharia is the Islamic word for Law. Ergo, Sharia Law, that apparently awful thing the Daily Nazi, sorry, Mail are always telling us to fear because it will eat our Children, would be called 'Law Law' which is pointless and stupid.
Working with a Muslim scholar has it's advantages you know. I miss my Sundays with him. Always informative, always enlightening as to just how much bollocks is printed in the Right Wing Gutter Press.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:02:10
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Sharia Law is a term that means 'English law inspired by Muslim law'. Its the kind of thing that pops up in translation all the time. For example, Jehovah is God denotes the idea that Jehovah, and God, fill the same definitive position in two different languages.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:04:11
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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EDITED to avoid flamewar
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:42:48
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:08:27
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Sharia Law is just the name used by us westerners to refer to the body of Islamic religious law, in much the same way we refer to Common Law, or Statute Law or Civil Law.
Of course, Sharia Law as promulgated is interpreted by Imams, who may differ in their opinions as much as rabbis or Christian priests or whatever denomination.
(I always enjoy rabbis on Thought Of The Day and I would like to hear more Imams.)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:09:25
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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EDITED to avoid flamewar
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:43:24
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:09:44
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Yes, and Christian Law used to promote the burning of Witches...
Islam, formerly, was highly respected for it's forward thinking Science. Dr Idrees was, and still is, totally against the more extreme interpretations of Islam. Very much a modern day moderate. Like most people of Faith, there are things in soceity he prefer to be different, but again, like most people of faith, it is enough for him to not partake in things he finds distasteful, or he feels his Religion forbids.
Seriously nice guy. Though he'd often ask me the meaning of certain English words, usually slang terms. Explaining them could be...interesting, at times.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:18:26
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Yes, and Christian Law used to promote the burning of Witches...
Islam, formerly, was highly respected for it's forward thinking Science. Dr Idrees was, and still is, totally against the more extreme interpretations of Islam. Very much a modern day moderate. Like most people of Faith, there are things in soceity he prefer to be different, but again, like most people of faith, it is enough for him to not partake in things he finds distasteful, or he feels his Religion forbids.
Seriously nice guy. Though he'd often ask me the meaning of certain English words, usually slang terms. Explaining them could be...interesting, at times.
I shouldn't go here, but will keep it it nuetral
What Christian Law did centuries ago has not bearing on today or the point I made. Depending on the country Sharia is either ok or blindingly Dark Ages. It depends on the country. Qatar is opening up. In other countries you get stoned for wearing finger nail polish. Its only minimally related to the underlying religion at this point.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:22:46
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Frazzled is quite right. Nor are other countries immune from religious legislation.
Eire -- no abortion
The UK -- Blasphemy (no longer in use)
The USA -- much controversy over abortion and gay marriage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:22:56
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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And yet we were little different in ages now thanfully past.
The nominally Christian Countries of the world have seen less and less emphasis being put on Christian Law, due to a shift towards more secular soceities.
Not every country has caught up, for myriad reasons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:30:56
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK -- Blasphemy (no longer in use)
Wait, how can that be illegal? Madonna was walking around England for months/years with a horrific fake English accent. If thats not blasphemy I don't know what is.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:38:34
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Frazzled wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK -- Blasphemy (no longer in use)
Wait, how can that be illegal? Madonna was walking around England for months/years with a horrific fake English accent. If thats not blasphemy I don't know what is. 
I wouldn't be adverse to her being burnt at the stake as penalty.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 20:48:00
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Frazzled wrote:Kilkrazy wrote:
The UK -- Blasphemy (no longer in use)
Wait, how can that be illegal? Madonna was walking around England for months/years with a horrific fake English accent. If thats not blasphemy I don't know what is. 
Apparently the UK's blasphemy laws were abolished last year. The most recent successful prosecution was in 1977.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 22:26:23
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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EDITED to avoid flamewar
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:44:18
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 22:37:47
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Or he's using an admittedly bad anecdote to state that the commonality of Christians to Muslims is actually not that high.
Lets be polite people, except MDG-no one can understand what you are saying half the time when you lapse native on us anyway.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 22:37:59
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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EDITED to avoid flamewar
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/02/11 22:44:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/02/11 22:40:08
Subject: Now for something a little more positive on the peace on earth front
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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This thread has been reported. To keep the thread on track and avoid the inevitable flame war will edit files.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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