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This was pulled over from the thread that Darkness started. First I would like to say that I'm friends with both Kenny who played the nob biker list and Rob who ran the tournament. I was also the person that played Kenny in the 3rd round with the Tzeentch daemon list, so I was there onsite and on person. My responses are below in italics

A couple of things up front. All of the missions and their rules were posted on the web months before the tournament. However, Kenny does not have internet access and did not look at them.


Saturday was Ghengis Con, the largest tourney in CO. The Wrecking Crew attended in force. One member took Nob Bikers. He took them as practice not concerned about the overall.

First round, the TO approached him and told him flat out, he didnt care what his opponents scored him for theme or comp, he was going to mark him 0's. This already was a moment of contention. After his first game, he tabled his opponent. He expected to recieve full bonuses for it, but the TO hurried over to tell him no he didnt. His opponent marked him full for theme and half for comp, scores he wasnt going to recieve.

Kenny did not receive full battle points for tabling his opponent. It specifically stated in the mission rules that you had to actually have enough troops left actually sitting on the objectives at the end of the game to get a massacre. However, his comp score did get adjusted by the TO. There were two "theme/army composition" boxes. His opponent gave him one of the two and the TO did take it away (more on this later).

Game 2 was against a fellow WC member, who won the tourney. The player with the Nobs won with a minor victory and recieved top marks in theme and medium in comp. The TO said he wouldnt give him those points unless his opponents would come up and argue. Well his opponents did, and he was denied.

He was indeed denied again

Final round he matched up against shooty Tzeentch demons on the only board with Buildings having more than 1 floor. The TO expressly told him that he purposely did it so he would lose. His opponent for the match was a friend of mine, a good player, and merely a pawn it seemed. The mission was KPs and it was annouced that they would be percentage based. The game ends 4-8 in the favor of the Nobs, a massacre by GT standards. Since it was percentage based the math had the demons with a 3.6% advantage. A tie, right? No, a lose, the TO declared that there would be no margin for a tie.

Okay I played the Tzeentch army. First off there were about 5-6 boards that had buildings with more than one floor. The TO did not purposely put the biker player on a table that had a building. He moved him down one table to play against me (so basically he purposely matched him up against me). Both of us were about 8-9 positions down and were only a few points apart in standings. The mission which was on the website specifically states that it was percentage based, and a minor victory was if one person had a higher percentage. In the mission rules it specifically stated that but again Kenny didn't actually see this until the tournament started. After the game the TO came over to talk to Kenny and the three of us had a talk. I flat out told the TO that it was bull that he adjusted the player's rated comp scores. He did agree and say that he shouldn't have done that. He actually did give the nobs the points back. And he apologized right there to the nob player and said that he went a little overboard on the whole thing. So not only was there a private apology, but he also announced to the whole tournament that he had been a prick to the nob player and gave the nob player a blister and called it the "Thanks for not punching out the TO award".

Also the largest transgression (which has only a few facts to support) was the lose of player's choice. Virtually half the hall declared they had voted for the nobs and the prize did not go to them, nor the amazingly painted exodite eldar

I have no idea on this one. This is what I will say the votes for players choice were all over the place. The TO told me I got 3 votes for players choice (so out of curiosity I asked how many the most was). The person that took players choice had 6 votes. So out of 58 players 6 people were the most that voted for any one army. A good side question to that would be how many of the players actually voted.

So, was it unfair of the Rob to not give him the player judged points. Yes it was, and he undid it and apologized, however this wasn't until towards the end of the tournament, which I know made it a frustrating day for Kenny. However on the other side is that Kenny did not read the missions beforehand. They are drastically different than the GT rules which is why they were posted well in advance of Ghengis Con.

I'll be happy to answer any other questions, but if anyone is going to straight out bash on Kenny, WC, Rob, or the tourney as a whole I'll ask for an immediate lock on the thread and move past the whole thing.

this is all well and good, but we dont get the whole story and what started it.
if it were possible to hear the TO's side of the argument then we would be able to comment on this.

I'll be happy to answer any other questions, but if anyone is going to straight out bash on Kenny, WC, Rob, or the tourney as a whole I'll ask for an immediate lock on the thread and move past the whole thing.

1: this is a biased argument from the start.
2: why can those people not be bashed, yet the TO can be? (when we havent heard his side of it)
3: wasnt there allready 1 thread locked for this?
4: does dakka need to know everytime a judge of any form makes a bad decision?

Edit:

5: the TO did admit he was wrong in this case, and gave an apology, why make this thread atall since it had been sorted out?

Drama makes me smile

inb4lock

I'm sorry first off it's not biased against the TO but everything is biased to some point.

Kenny = The Nob Biker Player
Rob = The Tournament Organizer

So basically I was saying I don't want to see any bashing of anyone that was involved.

And I'm putting this up here to give a first hand account and because I feel like Rob, the TO, was painted in an unfair light. So this is more a counter to what Darkness said and because people were asking for someone that was there fist hand.

Ugh.

Read here first. That has how this all started.

As to your other points:
1. Of COURSE it is biased. People are always biased, and those who say that they're not biased are ignorant or liars. You picked up on the bias, so you're intelligent enough (as I'm sure all other readers here are) to figure out what's up and make your own decisions.

2. He can ask for a lock, but that doesn't mean he'll get it. First post doesn't control the thread, it just directs it.

3. Yes. See above.

4. Sure thing. It really helps give other tournament players advanced warning of things to look out for.

Edit - this is directed to JD21290's post.

Eh i see nothing wrong with this type of thread.
A player was wronged, and seeks opinion from dakka
members 0.o

@ iorek:

1: why bother with a discussion when you only have 1 side of the story?

2: yes iorek, i know what you are like with your locks on threads.

3: if you checked mate you would see i have read that one and posted on it.

4: so, if i start shouting my mouth off about everything i can put people off attending a tourney, without hearing both sides of the story?
it isnt a warning iorek, its simple trash talk towards something they dislike.

After reading the locked thread I have to say that it's nice to hear that the TO relented, apologized, and gave him the points back that he wrongfully denied him.

What's more is that the TO even made a public apology to him in front of the whole event and gave him a blister.

Sounds like a classic case of someone being pissed about a players army list, abusing their power, and then when discussing it later, realizing they were wrong and doing what they could to correct the situation.

End of the Story: Guy admits he messed up, apologized privately & publicly. Probably not the best thing in the world for the Nob Biker Player, but certainly not worth tons and tons of internet drama either.

yo. im kenny, i know its confusing but my brother and i share this account. below is a link to the 40kWC myspace comment were i say this is me so no one thinks im no being truthful

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=453352746

look, rob is not a bad man...lol

be messed up and then hit me with a genuine yet slightly condescending apology thats fine i forgive him.....the real issue is that for like the first 6 hours i had a crappy day.I was playnig my favorite toy soilder game that has brought me much happiness for a decade. thats the reason we all play 40k. Its fun as hell. this guy robbed me of that. So thanx for the apology but that doesnt change how crappy my day was.

so what ever, i will live. But i have learned that some people (in the RTT scene) hate the nobz....though ther were like 3 broken demon armies there. so i guess his bias only extends to nobz.

peace out

Not until all nob biker player are placed in a moral Coventry will the game be fun to play again.

I hope that next year's rules packet includes a disclaimer, "If the TO really doesn't like your list and thinks you're trying to gain an unaffair advantage by 'gaming' the system, he'll dock you full soft scores and shut you out of any prizes." Or that he'll just say, "If you bring a legal army list, you're fine to play and I won't adjust player-given soft scores unless I suspect some shenanigans (like collusion by players)."

Whether the player was part of the WC or not, that doesn't matter. He was treated very unfairly. He showed up with a legal army list (presumably, there has been no accusations to the contrary), which is all you can ask of a tourney player.

Any changes to the 'normal' tourney rules need to be posted well in advance.

JD21290 wrote:@ iorek:

1: why bother with a discussion when you only have 1 side of the story?

2: yes iorek, i know what you are like with your locks on threads.

3: if you checked mate you would see i have read that one and posted on it.

4: so, if i start shouting my mouth off about everything i can put people off attending a tourney, without hearing both sides of the story?
it isnt a warning iorek, its simple trash talk towards something they dislike.

Because I'm feeling contrary today:

1. Because it's better than having NO sides of the story. No one is stopping Rob (the TO) from commenting here, and we'd welcome it. We can't force him to post here, though. If you'd like to get him to, be my guest.

2. If you'd read my post and did some interpretation, you'd see that I was saying that I'm not going to lock it.

3. You're right, I didn't check. However, your comment in this thread indicated that you didn't know what started it, which has been pretty well laid out in the locked thread.

4. Wow, use hyperbole much? (I'll wait while you look that up. No, not the math term, the other one.) They did not, as you put it, "shout their mouths off about everything they can to put people off of attending this tourney". They said that it was one problem, with one person, who wasn't even the person who regularly ran the tournament. I can think of many, many other things to list, but they stuck to the one point.

If you're going to mouth off, it's best to get your facts straight. Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way too. I look forward to your angry response!

@ iorek:


1: sorry, but i rather have no side of the story atall than a 1 sided flame match against a TO who is not here to defend his own reasoning.

2: i know that iorek, if you were going to lock it then i wouldnt be able to post here now.

3: i have read the 1st thread about it, all i see are 1 sided opinions by people flaming a TO, about a matter that has allready been resolved.

4: iorek, as i have said, this thread is pretty pointless, the last thread was killed off, why do we need a new one to hear about more complaining and moaning?

if it needs to be brought into light here about a TO being in the wrong, i think a WC member abusing rules was also wrong.


why would i get angry with you iorek?
i managed to ignore stelek for a long time, an annoying MOD isnt much compared to that.

if you want an angry response then im sure i could think 1 up for you, but then its just giving you a reason to ban me

I was just hoping for an angry response. They're funnier.

This thread was actually attempting to tell things with more of the TO's point of view, a mitigation of the other thread.

This is a problem how?

Don't think of me as an annoying mod, think of me as an annoying poster.

Shane looks g3hy in that picture. Why isn't he wearing a cap?

G

if you want funny then im sure you have some films or the ability to look at youtube


because its still not his side of the story, how much more is missing from what has been said?
1st thread was missing loads, this one has quite a bit more.

no iorek, i think of you as an annoying mod, im pretty sure if i got to you bad enough i would get a swift ban for it

Only if you broke a rule several times. Yakface has the ultimate authority here, and he wouldn't stand for it (yes, he's a much better person than I am).

But you're right, I was kind of a jerk. I do apologize for that. I still disagree with you, but shouldn't have posted what I did.

after my 1st warning for language (caused by stelek doing his best) i tend to keep to the rules now.
i havent actually spoken to yak, which is funny since i been around for a bit now, so i dont know what hes like.

i also apologize for being hasty with my replies.
alas, if the whole world agreed with everything then everyone would be the same.



Edit: my usual crappy typo's

I thought we are not allowed to mention Stelek's name.

G

says who GBF?
im yet to be told i cant say his name, if you cant, then thats news to me.

Well, we keep being told that you can't rag on somebody if they aren't able to defend themselves. Maybe they feel that nobody could possibly say something positive about Stelek, and so any mention of him must be derogatory?

stelek was a genius with some of the lists and ideas he had, dont get me wrong, but he was still acting like an arsehole at the same time, which is what got him banned.

You're allowed to mention Stelek, just can't insult him/pick on him/etc. Same goes for anyone else who's been banned (not that anyone else has the same name recognition).

So, anyone have anything to say on-topic? (I know, I helped drag this OT.)

JD21290 wrote:stelek was a genius with some of the lists and ideas he had, dont get me wrong, but he was still acting like an arsehole at the same time, which is what got him banned.

What list of his would you consider a sign of real genius?

G

i would like to hear any more details before i say much more about this, its a good sign that he actually apologized in public for his actions.
maybe he holds a grudge against biker lists?

also, did anyone else there run a similar army to kenny?




GBF, his DE lists and how to use them were killers.

The term genius should be reserved for people like Einstein, Tesla, Hannibal and other truly great minds. You do them injustice.

G

There weren't any other nob biker lists there that I saw (I did my walk through for players choice but I could easily have missed something).

It's kind of hard trying to pick out the nasty lists when you are just walking around and I didn't see anything that really stood out. I saw another ork list with a lot of battlewagons, a 5 dread marine army (with no pods), 2-3 triple grinder daemon lists ( i didn't pay attention to them too closely, I know one of them was running 7 crushers but he had no upgrades on the squad and 2 guo's no upgrades). Some horde orks, but I don't think there was any heavy up loota spam.

GBF, thats a matter of opinion, and also off topic, so ill leave that there.


seems odd for a tourney to be missing loota / biker spam, if kenny had the only list like that then it may have been a biased TO, but no way to tell unless he gave a reason to explain his actions.

I'm really disappointed that this hasn't degenerated into more name calling (especially of people NOT banned). That's what make dakka fun, the flaming.

Okay... give me a couple of moments to lumber up.

G