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Time for another thread for pure discussion, without an agenda trying to be fulfilled.

40k has been around for quite a while now, and over the editions the rules have changed quite a bit, and there are many units now in existence that simply weren't there in earlier days. Now, not all of these units are considered especially potent under the current rules, but I wonder how people would have rated them in 2nd Edition.

As an example, Leman Russ Exterminator. Twinlinked Auto Cannons in the Turret. It's not *bad* under the current rules, but due to how the weapon worked in 2nd Edition rules (Twinlinked meant one roll to hit, and if you did, both hit. This would lead to 2 Sustained Fire Dice being rolled).

So there you go. Essentially I'm looking for theoretical transposition of newer units into older rules, and whether it would be a lot harder, a lot worse, or about the same.

Begin!

If you look closely at the Exterminator model (the metal GW one) it has lascannons not autocannons. It would have been very potent in second edition if it had been WYSIWYG.

Dark Eldar lords and C'tan anyone? Master of the Ravenwing Land Speeder - immune to close combat and 10 sustained fire dice!

Um, the LeMan Russ Exterminator did indeed have twin-linked autocannons on the turret. I owned one.

See?



Looking at the pic, I can see why you'd think that, though.

Dark Millenium gave rules for customising vehicles (or, the framework on how you'd do it) so I tested out the Exterminator. Based upon the prices there it was much cheaper than a Russ, and very effective.

Thing to keep in mind is that Autocannons were different beasts back then - Range 72", Strength 8, -3 Save Mod (Equiv to AP3 today) and they could fire between 1 and 3 shots a turn thanks to Sustained fire. On a tank with 3 Heavy Bolters, you could carve into most things and the Autocannon could handle some vehicles quite well (2D6+8 armour penetration IIRC).

BYE

The AP sounds familiar for the Autocannon. Not that top notch by 2nd Ed standards, but the amount of hits you could bag, and that some things had definite weakpoints, it was usually decent enough to do some damage.

And yeah, with the 3 Heavy Bolters, all weapons having targetters, it would chew up and spit out pretty much anything in the game, including Orky Mobs in a single turn!

Or knacker itself with loadsa jams of course. That would suck.

Iorek wrote:Um, the LeMan Russ Exterminator did indeed have twin-linked autocannons on the turret. I owned one.

I still own one although mine is now heavily converted. I was not suggesting that it had Lascannons in the third edition rules.

I'd like to see the monolith in the old necron list, back when they were necron raiders and packed much more whallop than they do now. The damage results list alone would be interesting...

I don't remember eldar lascannons (brightlances) having the lance special rules under 2nd ed - I'll have to dig up my 2E codex to make sure. I remember that melta weapons had great Penetration values. What benefit do you think Living Metal would have?

Abaddon - oh how the mighty have fallen

Nope, was just a plain old Lascannon back then (one of the things 3rd Ed got right in my mind was diversifying and defining each races weapons, rather than just a shared pool).

Living Metal? I honestly don't know. Probably just mentally high values all round, with no real soft spot. Though I'd imagine a shot cracking the crystal would cause all sorts of fun and games.

Well, if you find indiscriminate explodey gaussy death fun.

The Bright Lance did exist in 2nd Ed, but it was a Wargear Card you'd give to a character. It was basically a hand-held Lascannon that you could give an Exarch.

BYE

99MDeery wrote:Abaddon - oh how the mighty have fallen

Ah c'mon. He's pretty good in the current 'Chaos' Codex. He was terrible in the real Chaos Codex, but not bad now. He was very good in 2nd Ed though. 2+ save on 2D6. You couldn't actually kill him with Autogun fire. And he had every Mark of Chaos, and the Daemon Sword Unpronouncable auto-penned anything it hit. Crazy.

BYE

Best Character in Second edition was Tigurius and unstoppable force.

I shall choose all of my cards from the inquisition deck please.

I remember that someone said that the Avatar was really stinking good. Something about all 4's in its stats, but you increased them all by 1d6 or something like that?

Vladsimpaler wrote:I remember that someone said that the Avatar was really stinking good. Something about all 4's in its stats, but you increased them all by 1d6 or something like that?

No, that's not right. I have my 2nd ed Eldar book open in front of me right now.

Stats are 6/10/10/8/8/7/10/5/10

Bloodthirster was fun. M6 WS10 BS10 S10 T10 W10 I10 A10 Ld10.

Or something very close to that.

BYE

I thought that the brightlance was a wargear card as well, but I couldn't find a reference to it in my 2E codex. Hrm.

I always wanted to get tarantulas for my space marines back in 2e so my heavies could move and fire...

Looking through my 2nd ed Eldar book makes me wanna play some 2nd again...

Wolf Guard with Assault Cannons and Cyclone Missile Launchers FTW! Assault Cannons were, iirc, 3 sustained fire dice - or was it 4? and the CML had an option to launch multiple missiles and get a huge template.

But, not as good a Vortex Grenade when half your opponent's army was on a hill. Card said, if it touches a terrain piece, remove it and all models on the terrain!

dietrich wrote:Wolf Guard with Assault Cannons and Cyclone Missile Launchers FTW!

Not to mention illegal. They cleared that up in WD.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Not to mention illegal. They cleared that up in WD.
BYE

That didn't stop it's abuse. I don't think I even read WD in second edition, but I didn't play SWs either.

I remember someone (that was a lawyer in RL) equipping a marine with TDA and a jump pack - because it didn't say you couldn't. I think that was FAQ'ed at some point too.

This thread is too old for me

dietrich wrote:I remember someone (that was a lawyer in RL) equipping a marine with TDA and a jump pack - because it didn't say you couldn't. I think that was FAQ'ed at some point too.

I know you could do that in Rogue Trader, didn't think it was possible in 2nd.

Rings a bell. IIRC, Terminator Armour came from the armoury, and you could take a Jump Pack as a Wargear Card.

Either that or I am barking up completely the wrong tree.

Mad Doc's got it right. I tried that particular combination for my Standard Bearer back in the day and got the fish eye from my opponent for the duration of the battle.

Assault cannons were crazy with 3 sustained fire dice. I never thought that the chances of jamming outweighed the benefit of all those shots. I only took them on a drednought since they ignored the first jam rolled.

My favorite was the cyclone launcher, though. Complete salvo of missiles made a 8" template or something similarly ridiculous. I had the opportunity to drop that pie plate on my friend's ork army to dramatic effect.

12" diametre template, or 11.5" if you were being anal about it. That's a BIG template.

BYE

Of course, the risk was you'd make a bunch of saves, and then the Missile Racks would go haywire, launching them in a random direction or blowing up your Terminator!

That happened to me the first time I fielded one. It wasted half its own squad. :(

Yeah, but the risk of rolling a misfire on the artillery dice wasn't as likely as rolling a jam on the sustained fire dice... right?

Both were 1 in 6.

BYE

Indeed.

I'm trying to remember how a misfire was triggered on a Cyclone. I think you rolled a Misfire dice per saved hit?