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Ok so its pretty simple. What new rules or any rules for that matter, do you think will be put on the chopping block for the NEXT edition???

Probably the ones that work?

Movement and HTH.

We'll just roll dice and whoever scores the most 4+'s wins.

BYE

All caps.

Oh, you mean next edition of 40k...

uh.... WELL I guess you can add fantasy on there. I dont play Fantasty so I honestly never think about it. I think the feel no pain rule will get the axe personally. And probably a much watered down version of the orbital bombardment

I personally dislike the feel no pain rule as I think the multiple save thing is best left for fantasy. Maybe just replace it with +1 toughness. If anything should give an extra save, it should be invulnerable saves (much like fantasy ward saves.) Wound allocation will probably change again.

oh you know wound allocation will change. sheesh seems like everytime you get that one down, they change it

Granting a 4+ cover save if your own men are in the way (I see the idea but it's just not fun)
true line of sight (hurts modeling)
The deep strike mishap table (unnneeded)
Glacing hits are -2 to the results (so now glancing cannot destroy a tank? I predict it will be roll 2 dice, choose the lower)
Fleet only works for assault (predict it will be come roll 2d6 for run or reroll run)

H.B.M.C. wrote:Movement and HTH.

We'll just roll dice and whoever scores the most 4+'s wins.

BYE

that would go along with the four f's rule.. fast, furious, fun and 4's.... lol

I think glancing will change to -1, not -2.

and I thing the destroyed on Immobilized for vehicle squadrons will be thrown out as it is a bloody stupid rule that even GW will figure out after the 4-6 year cycle is done.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:true line of sight (hurts modeling)

I don't see this, but then all the stores and groups I've played with in New Orleans and Baton Rouge have used TLOS since 3rd edition.

Something needs to be done to the movement phase. Currently there's just too many fast assault units now. It used to be you only had to worry about first turn charges from dark eldar, now it's space marines and orks too. Who comprise a large portion of the gaming community..

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Granting a 4+ cover save if your own men are in the way (I see the idea but it's just not fun)
true line of sight (hurts modeling)
The deep strike mishap table (unnneeded)
Glacing hits are -2 to the results (so now glancing cannot destroy a tank? I predict it will be roll 2 dice, choose the lower)
Fleet only works for assault (predict it will be come roll 2d6 for run or reroll run)

QFT. As an eldar player, I'd prefer to roll 2d for run, reroll run, or even a flat +2 bonus to the run roll would be nice. The ability to assault after running is nice, but doesn't help so much tactically when your shooty units are trying to get away from an assault and are supposed to be mobile and quick...

I reckon that the 4+ Default Cover Save will drop to a 5+.

GW aren't daft. Major rules changes like this impact on the Metagame. An impact in the Metagame means a greater variety of sales (for example, MEQ was the metagame, but now Hordes are du jour) which leads to people owning bigger armies, playing bigger games etc.

So to enforce a big enough shift to truly register, make the change substantial. You can always lower it in a new Edition, or even FAQ it.

Run. I dunno. I can see Fleet being changed to also potentially running in the Assault Phase, d6" (though remaining the full 6" if assaulting of course) to get further away from nasty gribblies.

Do you reckon we could playtest some of these? Well, by 'we' I mean you guys. I am still 40k army less for the time being.

4+ Save for firing through an enemy squad... with no consequences to the unit caught in the crossfire?! If GW are trying to create a game that's non-abstract, the unit providing the cover should take an automatic hit for each successful save.

Running is also a load of nonsense. Why not just return to variable movement rates like in 2nd?

Flashman wrote:4+ Save for firing through an enemy squad... with no consequences to the unit caught in the crossfire?! If GW are trying to create a game that's non-abstract, the unit providing the cover should take an automatic hit for each successful save.

Or make it like AT-43: Hits are taken by the squad in the way until that squad is entirely hit, then apply the remaining hits to the actual target squad. Barrage/Indirect Fire weapons ignore intervening units.

Flashman wrote:4+ Save for firing through an enemy squad... with no consequences to the unit caught in the crossfire?! If GW are trying to create a game that's non-abstract, the unit providing the cover should take an automatic hit for each successful save.

That's a good point, I wonder why they don't have some sort of penalty for it. It hasn't really bothered me much before, because I feel like I'm getting the gretchin save from the 3rd edition 'dex, but obviously with units that have models of similar height it's a bit silly.

Flashman wrote:
Running is also a load of nonsense. Why not just return to variable movement rates like in 2nd?

I like running, I think it's good to have some sort of "I don't take time to shoot, and instead move" run. That doesn't mean that the current approach is all that great, could probably use some tweaking.

Warmachine allows something similar, ie you get a double move, but that's all you do. FoW makes your unit vulnerible, by taking double hits from shooting. Most systems have something similar.

I think the big issue is with running + assualting, which makes the orks really hard to deal with. It basically guarantees that they're the charger, and not the chargie. OTOH, it was supremely annoying in the previous edition to run across the board for multiple turns to attempt to get into combat, only to have the other player take advantage of that by getting the charge.

Tyranids will become wholly incapable of overcoming an armor save...

I hope they change the run rule. Why are my Fleet units the same speed (or slower if I roll badly) than a big, bulky unit that seems like it can barely move?

Make running 3 inches for normal models, 6 inches for Fleet models.

BigToof wrote:

Flashman wrote:
Running is also a load of nonsense. Why not just return to variable movement rates like in 2nd?

I like running, I think it's good to have some sort of "I don't take time to shoot, and instead move" run. That doesn't mean that the current approach is all that great, could probably use some tweaking.

Warmachine allows something similar, ie you get a double move, but that's all you do. FoW makes your unit vulnerible, by taking double hits from shooting. Most systems have something similar.

I think the big issue is with running + assualting, which makes the orks really hard to deal with. It basically guarantees that they're the charger, and not the chargie. OTOH, it was supremely annoying in the previous edition to run across the board for multiple turns to attempt to get into combat, only to have the other player take advantage of that by getting the charge.

My problem with the run rule is that it's so F'ing random. I'd love to see variable movement rates come back and have run just double your movement once more. That or leave everything moving 6" like now and have run add a fixed number (like 3 or 4). I also can't stand the fact that fleet is an assault power not a movement ability. In 3rd and 4th edition I used fleet to stay out of assault far more often than I used it to get into assault (and I play eldar where everything is fleet). It really took away my tactical options to now say my units are no longer fast, they are just quicker to get into assault. If they did go with the flat movement rates for running, fleet units could just move 2" or so farther and everything would be right with the world once more.

Kill Points. The running mechanic in 5th edition is actually worse than the one in Rogue Trader.

WOW. I dont remember RT to save me BUT Ive heard some horror stories

Wound Allocation has to go.

Make TLOS really TLOS. Instead of "I can see 1 model in your unit, I can now shoot your entire unit" should be "see 1 model, shoot that model".

Maneuver in 40k lost alot of tactical application. It is not so much jumping from terrain piece but its more so run at you directly and you dont need cover because most of the time your opponent will be providing you cover.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:true line of sight (hurts modeling)

True LOS has been the core of the shooting rules for every edition of the game so far. It's not going anywhere, because it fits the style of game that GW want to make.

thehod wrote:Make TLOS really TLOS. Instead of "I can see 1 model in your unit, I can now shoot your entire unit" should be "see 1 model, shoot that model".

TLOS is TLOS in this situation. What people overlook is that you're drawing LOS to the unit not just that single model.

It was a deliberate move to facilitate larger games. People (largely those who were playing LOS wrong last edition, from me experience) complain about having to draw LOS from individual models as it is time consuming and fiddly... forcing casualty removal back onto only the models in LOS just returns another layer of uneccessary complication, as different members of a shooting unit can often see different amounts of the target unit.

Being able to take casualties from anywhere in the unit is simply another change aimed at making the game more of a unit-level game instead of an individual model-based game. It's a necessary side-effect of games getting progressively larger. 40K stopped being a small-scale skirmish game in 2nd edition. It's just taking the rules a while to catch up... they still have a long way to go, but reversing this particular change would be a huge step backwards.

If their is a god, the run rule will dissapear, as will the all HTH attacks vs armor are against the rear armor.

You can't use anything short of a landraider as a blocker anymore. Its just so pathetic how easy it is to chop up a vehicle in the current rules.

I expect Instant Death to disappear or change significantly. Many of the things that you'd want to instantly kill are immune, while some other things can be killed instantly despite it making little sense.

Something I've noticed is actually a tendency for the Universal Special rules to be incorporated into the game, such as Fleet being split into Running and assaulting after running. Or Counter-Assault being split into Counter-Assault movement and the A+1 bonus. The Furious Charge Universal Special Rule already shares this with the A+1 Assault Bonus.

I've also noticed that previously absolute rules such as Fearless now having their utility depend on the quality of the troops with rules like No Retreat! Another example is Preferred Enemy. A third is Poison (to a degree). A fourth is Hit and Run.

Something that I wouldn't be surprised to see phased out would be constant movement rates, so no more 6", 12" and 18" inch moves. We see a trend to this in giving vehicles three speed bands, the Slow and Purposeful and Move Through Cover universal special rules.

Instead, I expect that Warhammer 40k will move towards variable movement, with Infantry units ordinarily moving 2D6P1^ (2D6 and pick the highest) in normal terrain, 2D6Pv1 (2D6 and pick the lowest) in difficult terrain, with Combat, Cruising, and Flat out speeds corresponding to a multiplier like they do for Beasts and other 12" movers through cover.

Speed-wise it would be:

Roll 2D6 to make an Advance, Run, or Assault move

Difficult terrain, pick the lowest die and multiply
Normal terrain, pick the highest die and multiply

Infantry/Combat Speed: x1
Jump Infantry/Cavalry/Beasts/Cruising Speed: x2
Bikes/Flat Out: x3
Turbo-Boosters: x4

Slow and Purposeful: Can only make one of either an Advance or a Run or an Assault move.

Normal: Can only make two of Advance, Run, and/or Assault moves.

Fleet: Can make all three Advance, Run, and Assault moves.

Re-jigging Assault, Rapid Fire, Heavy, and Ordnance weapons to go with movement would have:

Infantry:
1. If they want to shoot, then they cannot Advance, Run, and/or Assault.
2. If they shoot Assault weapons, then they can only Advance and Assault.
3. If they shoot Rapid Fire weapons 1, then they can only Advance.
4. If they shoot Rapid Fire weapons 2, then they cannot move that turn.
4. If they shoot Heavy Weapons, then they cannot move that turn.
5. They cannot shoot ordnance.

Relentless Units
1. If they shoot, then they can only Advance and Assault.
2. They cannot shoot ordnance.
3. They cannot shoot if they Turbo-Boost
4. If they shoot Rapid Fire weapons 2, then they cannot move that turn.

On my wishlist, I hope that they change the turn sequence to an action-based one closely resembling Epic: Armageddon.

I reckon that they'll change thye sniper rules agen!

Also i think they might throw away the run move like the peice of turd it is.

We're not even a year into 5E, and we're looking for the successor?

I like that GW decided to shake things up with 5E, but I think we're still in the knee-jerk / reaction stage of 5E, and that it won't be another years before things start to settle down and make sense.

I'm going to hope for continued evolution of the game:
- cover saves moderated to 5++ to better balance between MEQ and horde, along with vehicles

- stronger differentiation between Run (d6") and Fleet (best of 2d6")

- removal of VPs entirely
- addition of secondary mission / player objectives
- transition to mission-specific Kill Points