Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/229827.page

is the link to the last thread that I helped derail in a moment of weakness. Sorry Alpharius, and the rest of y'all tryin to get things straight with GTGU.

I'd like ot invite JHDD, GMMStudios, Alpharius, GTGU and the rest of the interested parties from the last thread to come on in and participate in this one in a useful fashion. My own contribution will be a documentation of my experiences with GTGU. On the one hand I certainly sympathize with those who are still trying to get their orders squared away and would like for them to further document any ongoing experiences here, on the other hand I would like to hear from those who have had positive experiences as well. I am interested in as fair and truthful a representation of peoples experiences with the company as we can muster here.

23FEB: Called GTGU over satphone (always a treat) when I could wrangle the time. Had discussed order with him a few times over PM/email. When I called he had my order set aside. There were a couple of things that he no longer had in stock, but since he had well-documented this as a fire-sale situation, I was neither suprised nor put out. I gave my CC data, he ran the order through, and began discussing shipping. I let him know that I was not too picky about the shipping since I am not getting back home until 18MAR at the earliest, and prob. won't crawl out of the woodwork for a few days after that. Floating on a boat for two months does that to you, you US Navy bubbleheads out there know better than I.

Spoke with him about the future of the business, whether he was going to make a go of it. He sounded very positive and upbeat about it, said he was going to try his best and it was certainly his intent. I believe he said that March would really tell the tale.

All fine, he said he would get the shipment out that week. All good, ended call.

27FEB: Realized that I really needed to have nailed down SOME kind of shipping with him before I got off the phone. So, I sent GTGU an email requesting a hard ship date and an approximation for delivery. Took him a whopping 2hours 14 minutes to get a reply in my yahoo. He sent a list of my order, name and shipping data, ship to-morrow (which takes some finger counting on my part since I'm 11.5 hours ahead of EST right now), should be on my doorstep Tuesday.

28FEB: Got message from GTGU stating that the package is in the mail, and is enroute to my door. Should be at my house Tuesday.

03MAR: Well, it's Tuesday. As of 4pm EST no package from GTGU. To be fair, there was a ridiculous freak snowstorm in my area the day before, so I could easily see it being delayed. Got mail and another package from another source, but neither of them came from Fedex so blah. Sent an email to GTGU a couple hours ago asking about a tracking number, no response yet but again to be fair we're talking about email and 2 hours. Since I am 11.5 hours ahead of EST (it's actually 6 am local here on the boat right now) I prob. won't get a response until to-morrow. We shall see.

04MAR: No response to my email as of yet. It is about 11:30 EST, and I sent another email.

04MAR: SNAP!! Took him about 3.2 minutes to get back to me, and he had been to the FedEx site to get info, only reason took THAT long. Looks like the storm has screwed with FedEx, hardly GTGU's fault. Should be here today!

04MAR: Product received by my spouse, since I am on the other side of the planet. Review posted further on in the thread, but it looks like everything I ordered is there. Got there in good time.

I am sorry for any folks still having issues, wish you the best. However, like I stated before, I made this order almost expressly to try out a dealer who, it seemed to me, was hitting rough times and possibly was gettign treated unjustly. I could not say he was getting treated unjustly since I had not dealt with him, so I decided to throw my cash into the ring and see how it went with this particular batch of toys I wanted. Gorilla Tactics came through admirably. I hope everyone else gets their orders cleared up as soon as possible. Good luck, but yes I would order from GTGU again.

I missed the firesale... does anyone know if there's any more stock left or is GT trying to stay afloat despite the hardships?

GT is trying to stay afloat, and there is SOME stock left. Not sure how much or what. I know Tyranids are fairly cleared out, some other things.

OK, thanks, I'll give hima call

I don't have much to say here, but I would be very pleased to see GT step up and share what is plan is for "making right" to his Customers.

That is, I'd like to know whether he intends to fulfill the remaining orders, and by what date that will be accomplished.

Similarly, if orders cannot be fulfilled for whatever reason, then I believe that refunds are in order, and it would be incumbent upon him to share when those refunds will be processed.

That is all.

Gavin Thorne wrote:I missed the firesale... does anyone know if there's any more stock left or is GT trying to stay afloat despite the hardships?

No, from what I have been told by him and others, he lost his GW account and is transferring every other product account to some other company.

That would affect his future stocking (sez Capt. Obvious), but I think Gavin was asking about his current stock. But GMM DOES make a good and valid point. I put that thread link up in th OP for a reason folks; an informed community is an empowered community. I highly suggest doing some reading.

This has been the case since the fiasco and original (this is the third) thread was starting, around the first of February. He has always just been selling off existing stock.

While I've never done business with GT, and I don't have any reason to wish them anything but the best, I'm starting to wonder about the viability of the business model for online or phone in GW vendors.

In retail, you can compete on several different aspects: price, quality of product, quality of service, range of stock, convenience, etc.

All GW vendors sell the same product, so quality of product can't be a competing point.

The big one to try to compete on is price, and I think we've seen too many sellers have troubles making it while competing on price alone.

In terms of convenience, quality of service, and range of stock, nobody can hope to beat the War Store, they can only hope to match them. It's hard to imagine anybody carrying more gaming stuff, let alone GW stuff than the War Store, and their inventory and professionalism and second to none.

The real question for vendors has to be: can a business sell for more than 20% of MSRP and remain viable?

The question for gamers is: how much a discount over The War Store is the potential for collapse worth?

I don't like to recommend stores for people looking for new product, I buy 95% of my stuff used, but is there a point where we start warning people of potentially unstable vendors? Do we simply start to assume that there is point beyond which deep discounters cannot remain viable?

see discounting thread discussion

I think that's the big question, is the less money is spent on overhead, the more unstable the operation is. If it's ran out of an existing store (or somebody's garage) with few if any dedicated employees, mail order becomes a sideline that is more easily dropped when either personal issues emerge, or there are simply customers in the store.

Exactly.

For example, if you look at computer hardware resale & distribution, they do a lot of this stuff at less than 5% total margin, based on volume measured in $100Ms.

I think the viability of profit making for indy retailers at low percentile profit margins is an excellent topic for discussion and you guys should start a discussion on it, in the discussion area, not get the 3rd damned thread for folks trying to get their orders sorted out further derailed on it's first page...

Digression is such an easy trap with interwebs. Lets keep this thread for the folks with actual involvement with GT regarding orders etc. I think they will appreciate us all butting out of it.

I think the discussion on those topics to this point is OK and certainly relevant.

It may serve as a 'warning' to anyone thinking of purchasing product at great than say 25% off in the future because, long term, the provider of said discount may not be able to survive while doing so.

If you're the first in on the deal, you're probably OK. But as time goes by, the risk might increase to the point that you've got another GT situation on hand (which, granted, also involved other outside factors).

Having said all that, I'm certainly in favor of keeping this thread on track for the unfortunate few (I hope it is only a few now!) who still have items and/or refunds pending with GT.

I always find it funny/odd that when I trade or sell models, I always get the, "I can buy them for more than 30% off, so if you can't discount lower than that, I'm not interested." I'm intrigued, but when I ask further where they buy from, they most likely don't continue the conversation.

I just hope everyone is able to get what is owed the, that GT learns something from this experience, and that we all in general remember caveat emptor, 'let the buyer beware'..

Polonius wrote:...but is there a point where we start warning people of potentially unstable vendors?

Absolutely. If someone has a bad experience with a vendor, then in my humble opinion they almost OWE it to the community to get online and outline what happended. Not slag them off or make crap up, but give a brief synopsis of what the hell went on. There are a lot of inexperienced people in here who could use the heads up, and anyone considering doing business with that vendor deserves to know. One of the good things about using Dakka as a forum for this is that both sides have opportunity to respond. One of the major downsides is that all the third party has to go on is the veracity of the involved parties on an internet forum, whose relative anonimity makes things a little more grey.

Polonius wrote:...Do we simply start to assume that there is point beyond which deep discounters cannot remain viable?

As far as looking at a business model and determining viability, that's a little trickier. In order to really be able to do that, we'd have to be able to see their "back end", not just the front end as presented. Honestly, depth of discount is limited only by overhead, bulk of sales, and profit margin the vendor can work with. Operative word there being can. We patently cannot know that from here. But caution is never a bad thing in an internet environment.

I really think this thread is going down a rather silly road, now everyone is discussing theories and blah blah blah, all this stuff was said a lot less eloquently in the first thread.

It boils down to you get what you pay for. You either have more patience for the bigger discount or you go for the faster slightly more expensive experience.

That's it, no more to be said. Back to the FACTS and things related to the thread.

As you all know i've been with this whole mess since the first thread and I was worried about GTGU because i wanted to place an order as I often buy from them. And I do understand that there ARE delays.

With the liquidation sale I ordered just about $300. This included
5 boxes of space marines
1 Lucis the eternal
1 augustus magnus calgar box set
1 land speeder
2 Ork Kommandos box sets
1 Boss Snikrot
2 heavy destroyers
1 deceiver
1 plastic glue
1 super glue
3 Havocs, 1 lascannon, 2 autocannon

All that 300 bucks and i received it this past wednesday. The sale was last week if i remember correctly.

I, like some others here, believe that GTGU provides a GOOD SATISFYING service. And others who wish to purchase from them should NOT be discouraged by a lot of people that have never placed an order with them or that have a clear preference for another online seller.

Try it and judge for yourself. Even on ebay there's thousdands of sellers that have superb feedback and even in there you'll find some neutral/negative feedback in the mountain of positive feedback.

This is to say that, it is NEAR IMPOSSIBLE for ANY retailer to please EVERYBODY because people are simply different and have different expectations/tastes/level of patience. So yes perhaps one or two people here have had a horrible experience but that doesn't mean that YOU will as well as there are plenty others who have had a positive experience. Myself included.

My approach is simple. I order and don't expect things to instantly appear on my lap 2 hours after. Take the same approach and you'll have a pleasant experience, they have a lot of stuff to sort through, be patient and send occasional reminders if you will but losing your cool will only stress you out.

Comparing GTGU to the WARSTORE also has it's limits people. Seriously let's stop that already. It's like comparing Coke to Sprite, Apples and Oranges, Your Ex to your current girlfriend. Yes some comparisons can be made but in the end it is all a matter of preference and taste. Get over it.

I started a thread to discuss deep discounting in general in the Discussions forum, if anybody would like to continue that apparently silly road.

Comparing GTGU to the WARSTORE also has it's limits people. Seriously let's stop that already. It's like comparing Coke to Sprite, Apples and Oranges, Your Ex to your current girlfriend. Yes some comparisons can be made but in the end it is all a matter of preference and taste. Get over it.

I don't see any reason to stop. In discussions about different online discounters, Warstore is a good 'control group'. You can compare other people to Neal, and see how they stack up. He's a good reference point, since he has pretty standard discounts, and very consistant, very good, service. He's also been around for quite a few years, and everyone is familiar with him. Hard to compare a lot of other online discounters since a lot don't stick around for long.

The important things that I think people look for in who they buy their minis from are:
1) Price
2) Shiptimes
3) Reliability and trustworthiness
4) Communication and ease of doing business.
5) Stock levels

GTU was obviously better at 1, with a higher discount, but at least lately, worse on the other aspects.

Akaiyou wrote:

Comparing GTGU to the WARSTORE also has it's limits people. Seriously let's stop that already. It's like comparing Coke to Sprite, Apples and Oranges, Your Ex to your current girlfriend. Yes some comparisons can be made but in the end it is all a matter of preference and taste. Get over it.

What?

They are two online stores. The only difference is the discount and the wait (and that Neal is still running his store and didnt just dump it and its existing customers).

Apples and Oranges?

edited by modquisition

Akaiyou wrote:

It boils down to you get what you pay for. You either have more patience for the bigger discount or you go for the faster slightly more expensive experience.

These in reality are not related. Neal at the warstore is a stand up reliable guy wether he discounts 50% off or 10. Heck he is faster and more reliable than my LGS which offers 0% off plus tax!!

Akaiyou wrote:

My approach is simple. I order and don't expect things to instantly appear on my lap 2 hours after.

I also dont expect to have to wait two months and practically breathe down someones neck to get what I paid for.

Akaiyou wrote:
be patient and send occasional reminders if you will

and two months later you might get your stuff!

Well, I haven't, but there's a damn good reason for it. It's not suppossed to be delivered yet. Shipped Friday, should be there Tuesday. On schedule.

Akaiyou: I seem to find myself disagreeing with mikhaila more often than not, but I must agree with him in that I see no reason to stop making the comparison. Why does it break down for you, Akaiyou? I'd be curious to know.

If the warstore gives me 100% reliable service of course I am going to say nice things about them. We were just comparing the two. What do you have against Neal?

8 Warstore references, seems you're doing a fine job of advertising!

I'm still waiting on part of an order placed as my mekboy challenge prize from December. Got the initial shipment relatively fast, but a mixup had some product missing. Just so happened that the mixup occured right before the meltdown. Been sending emails a few times a week about it. Got an email last wednesday that said "I got it out" with no tracking info. I'll post if/when it arrives.

Thanks, Teek. That's what this thread is here for. Appreciate your participation.

Oh yeah forgot about Teek from one of the last threads. Other than that if there is anyone missing stuff I dont think they have posted in any of the threads before.

I got in on the inventory liquidation .. purchased 1 boxed set on the 16th -ish.

Still have not gotten it. In response to an email query on the 23rd, I got a "I still need your address to mail your stuff.. I lost it... and several other addresses too"

Since then, and re-providing my address.. no update as to when/if he shipped it.

It is a bitter barb which strikes true, eh Akaiyou?

Christ y'all, take it to PM, would you? If all you are going ot do is trade barbs of any sort.

Polonius wrote:Akaiyou, do you realize that you're being counterproductive? I mean, the facts about GT are pretty clear: the service hasn't been great. By lashing out at people that are pointing out what level of service is standard practice, you're not defending GT, you're showing that GT can only be defended through shrill posturing.

Some of the comments have been a bit off topic, to be sure, but that's bound to happen. If you really wanted to help out GT, you'd stop hurling insults at those that are merely pointing out some unfortunate truths.

I'm sorry if this is not clear to you or others, but please do read the thread and READ the posts and you will see I lashed out about things going off topic and then they started name calling and tossing insults and I responded in kind.

Look at the issue before you form an opinion against someone.

My problem is not with the reference to the Warstore itself, I myself considered buying from them when I heard GTGU was going out of business. My issue is with turning the thread itself into a discussion about the warstore. Read the first page and look at the actual posts and you'll see it's basically about how awesome the warstore is and how people should only buy from the warstore and blah blah blah.

THAT is NOT the topic of the thread. It is off topic not a 'little' off topic it's a 'little off topic' when you do it a 'little' the thread has been locked 2 or 3 times already because the same exact people refuse to stay on topic. Thus why i lashed out at them to stay on topic just this once. How many times do we need to have the thread locked before people get it through their skull ?

And let me make this clear myself because you are CORRECT i am being counter-productive with the rest o fthem in addressing all this stufff on the thread. So if ANYONE has any further bitching to do please PM me and we can bicker back and forth all you like, let's try and keep the thread on point. Is all I ask.

Can we do this? Thanks in advance.

Note: I do highly recommend you start a thread about the warstore to discuss the warstore, and i dont mean it in any ill way. But it would definetly be more useful and not to mention on topic to discuss how great the warstore is, in it's own topic.

At the moment this very much feelz like we are at the U.N. discussing problems with China and for some reason a bunch of people just can't shut up about America and how great America is and blah blah blah because they are countries and world powers so they are similar and the comparison is inevitable. It just really doesn't help the topic at hand to approach things like that.

I'm sorry that you consider mentioning an on-line store with a good reputation in a discussion of a (different) on-line store more than a little off-topic. It seems pretty closely related to the thread subject at hand.

All we have been saying is that there's a certain level of service vs. discount when dealing with on-line stores, and, well, the most off-cited example of excellent service/standard discount is echoed by many. Perhaps the reason for that is not to shill, but because that one does have great service.

For the record, I am in no way affiliated with Gorilla Tactics, the Warstore, Games Workshop or any other entity under discussion in this thread.