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**malfred**

http://www.privateerpressforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=173273&view=findpost&p=2574551

Apparently, Dahak also posted it here:

http://www.privateerpressforums.com/index.php?showtopic=173627

NQ 23 has arrived locally.

I like the Harbinger Comet Shard smile.gif

But enough Monsterpocalypse.

MK2 info

Out of turn Movement and attacks have been limited.

Based on size of game Warcasters and Warlocks will be included for free.
Warcasters come with a variable no of warjack points.

Rough terrain no longer prevents charges.

Cards redesigned

Warjack Shields and Open fists increased in POW
All Factions have mechanics.
Warjack points costs changed to be more proportionate compared with units.

Unit members are in formation if the are within the unit leaders command range.
Most unit leaders have the same stats as thier troopers.
All units behave in a manner similar to Field Promotion

Reaper gains Reach
Necrotech gains Repair
Bane Knights loose Shadowshift for Vengance [Which is used on some non Cryx Models] which triggers in control phase.

Kharchev gets retooled to become more killy.
Winterguard squads can have three Rocketeers each.
Doom Reavers become cheaper.

Charger gains Powerful Attack
Defender Heavy Barrel increases POW.
Stormblades and Stormguard are immune to Electricity due to the new damage typing system.

Knights Exemplar become a 10 man unit, but don't jump to conclusions
Severous has Convert as an ability rather than a spell.
Flails gain Chain Weapon.

Release Schedule

April Field Test is not a playtest. Its looking for Typos and rules confusion and other final polish.

Jan 2010 Warmachine II and card Decks. Warmachine 2 has a new Warjack for each faction in it.

Followed by 5 Faction books, The Four familiar faces plus Mercenaries, Mercs includes seperate sections for Privateers and Rhul. Each has new models/units and a new warcaster.

Faction book order determined by Summer Rampage 2009. [Which I guess means Mercs last.]

Then Hordes II

No mention of Retribution anywhere.

**Thanatos73**

I'm very happy about WM 2.0, though I am really curious how the free Warcasters will work, and with a point allocation for Jacks. Guess I'll see next month with the test rules.

**Vertrucio**

Sounds like good changes. Honestly, segmenting off the warcaster costs from the main army costs is a good way to handle thing if done well. There's always been some weirdness in the way they handle warcaster power, jacks, and epic warcasters.

I love winterguard, even if they didn't do all that much for me, so nice to see them getting even more options.

I wonder how Irusk will fare in the next version.

**strange_eric**

The concept of Formation being related to the Unit Leaders Command is great. It eliminates all the obtuse nature of "open/skirmish/tight" BS.

**Agamemnon2**

I wonder if that means Epic warcasters will take two "slots".

**LordRavurion**

mm, most warcasters are in the same pointsrange, except a few. Terminus and mortenebra for instance are at the moment a lot more points then the other non-epics. maybe these will become "epic" too....

I am also curious as to how they will balance this system against hordes... We will see I geuss...

**Noisy_Marine**

So Bane Knights *are* losing Shadow Shift. I wonder want "Vengeance" is. I'm kind of surprised bile thralls weren't mentioned. Will they still have the awesome purge?

Also good to see Doom Reavers getting cheaper. I'm looking forward to a Butcher + Doom Reaver army.

**George Spiggott**

This all sounds good. I'll have to see the specifics of the command rule but rught now it seems that creating a picket line with large units will be impossible unless the out of formation rules change too.

Points change will probably be the fix for bile thralls, or maybe not as they're pretty poor against jacks, in a jack heavy game they will be less useful.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Sounds friggin awesome; can't wait for the new rules to hit!

**Da Boss**

All sounds good, the only thing that I'm sad about is changing from unified rules releases to faction by faction.

**Metsuri**

Da Boss wrote:All sounds good, the only thing that I'm sad about is changing from unified rules releases to faction by faction.

Thats only for the initial book run, in the Fell Calls podcast 179 Kevin from PP said that after the MkII update they are going to return to the original book format.

**malfred**

Metsuri wrote:
Da Boss wrote:All sounds good, the only thing that I'm sad about is changing from unified rules releases to faction by faction.

Thats only for the initial book run, in the Fell Calls podcast 179 Kevin from PP said that after the MkII update they are going to return to the original book format.

Did he say that? I must have dozed off in between all the non-questions and non-answers.

**George Spiggott**

He didn't but he sertainly hinted that it would be business as usual after the faction books. The current book format is one of Warmachine's strengths, I can't see them changing it.

**Moz**

April needs to hurry up and get here already!

**Scottywan82**

Out of turn Movement and attacks have been limited.

Based on size of game Warcasters and Warlocks will be included for free.
Warcasters come with a variable no of warjack points.

This sounds to me like bigger games.

Play 1500 points and the Warcaster is free! Also, now your warcaster can control tons of 'jacks, just like in the fluff! You only need one, so less math, but the games can be huge!

Here, have some plastic infantry!

**syr8766**

I like all of these changes. They make a lot of sense and help bring the warjack back into the game without hitting infantry/units with the nerf-bat.

It may lead to bigger games, but frankly (as has been stated already), 750 has become a pretty standard size, and 1000 is not unheard of. As long as they don't kill the game at 350-500 points (my preferred size game) I'll be happy.

**chaplaingrabthar**

Scottywan82 wrote:This sounds to me like bigger games.

Play 1500 points and the Warcaster is free! Also, now your warcaster can control tons of 'jacks, just like in the fluff! You only need one, so less math, but the games can be huge!

Here, have some plastic infantry!

I hope it just means more Warjack focused games. I'm interested in Warmachine, but soley for the big 'jacks and all the stuff I hear about Infantrymachine puts me off.

Of course if you're correct, JHDD will be along to gloat in a minute

Edit: I screwed up my quoting.

**JohnHwangDD**

No, now...

I don't gloat.

And it takes me longer than a minute.

**malfred**

chaplaingrabthar wrote:
Scottywan82 wrote:This sounds to me like bigger games.

Play 1500 points and the Warcaster is free! Also, now your warcaster can control tons of 'jacks, just like in the fluff! You only need one, so less math, but the games can be huge!

Here, have some plastic infantry!

I hope it just means more Warjack focused games. I'm interested in Warmachine, but soley for the big 'jacks and all the stuff I hear about Infantrymachine puts me off.

Of course if you're correct, JHDD will be along to gloat in a minute

Edit: I screwed up my quoting.

If it swings the other way, I'm going to miss my masses of troops.

**Metsuri**

George Spiggott wrote:He didn't but he sertainly hinted that it would be business as usual after the faction books. The current book format is one of Warmachine's strengths, I can't see them changing it.

Around 32 min in the podcast he says that as far as he(Kevin) knows they are going to keep publishing books in the same format as before ie all the factions updated at the same time.

**carmachu**

malfred wrote:

If it swings the other way, I'm going to miss my masses of troops.

I wont. Its why I moved away from warmachine and towards hordes. I really got tired of that and didnt want to play infantry machine.

I find it sad that when I open NQ magazine and look at the top 3 lists at the last tourney, the threee lists at 750pts each had a grand total of 2 jacks in them....and one was the scrap jack that came with the old woman. The other? A merc jack to go with the pirate 'caster.

Not saying you should load up on jacks, but more of a balance ala Hordes would be nice.

**malfred**

I know. I also think that Hordes is the better game, but due to
time constraints most of my games have been 500 point
games lately, and only Warmachine lets me get my infantry
on at 500 points.

Warjacks are also kind of boring in concept when compared
to warbeasts.

**tealzooka**

No mention of Retribution anywhere.

Saw somewhere that this faction will not be released until after the 1st 5 are released.

**dietrich**

Depending on how point value and army composition changes, we may find that 750 point game has fewer models on the board and will actually play faster. I could see 750 pt being: Caster, 2 heavies, 2 lights, 2 units, and 2 solos. That could be a faster game than 500 points where it's typically Caster, 1 arcnode (4 for cryx) or 1 heavy (khador), 2-3 units, 2-3 solos.

**JohnHwangDD**

malfred wrote:If it swings the other way, I'm going to miss my masses of troops.

The way I see it, if I wanted to play infantry-based battles, we have WFB and 40k and LotR for that.
____

carmachu wrote:I wont. Its why I moved away from warmachine and towards hordes. I really got tired of that and didnt want to play infantry machine.

Exactly. With the starters beeing all Jacks (or Monsters), pushing Infantry to the fore was basically a bait and switch.

**carmachu**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

carmachu wrote:I wont. Its why I moved away from warmachine and towards hordes. I really got tired of that and didnt want to play infantry machine.

Exactly. With the starters beeing all Jacks (or Monsters), pushing Infantry to the fore was basically a bait and switch.

Now see, you bias is showing again.

No I dont think its bait and switch at all...I think that as the game progressed, there was no reason to take jacks. Infantry just hs more wounds flat out then jacks have damage. They made equal number of interesting jacks and units, only there wasnt a reason for folks to take them, unlike in Hordes. Even without the fury mechanic, beasts have an interesting hook to them, with their animus.

**malfred**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
malfred wrote:If it swings the other way, I'm going to miss my masses of troops.

The way I see it, if I wanted to play infantry-based battles, we have WFB and 40k and LotR for that.

You don't understand. I play Fantasy for ranked soldiers (even though I play the most
skirmishy army in the game, lol), I don't play 40k. Neither game has the feel of Warmachine
or Hordes. They're different games. Why would I play Fantasy or 40k to replace my
Warmachine experience? Why would I ask you to play Warmachine to replace your 40k
experience? Either scenario doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say that the reason they continue playing 40k is that the background keeps
bringing them back. Well to me, the heart and soul of every faction isn't their warjack
but their characterization through their grunts. Khador: Iron Fangs and Winterguard.
Protectorate: Knights Exemplar, Holy Zealots, Choir. Cryx: McThralls. Cygnar: Trenchers
and Long Gunners.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
carmachu wrote:I wont. Its why I moved away from warmachine and towards hordes. I really got tired of that and didnt want to play infantry machine.

Exactly. With the starters beeing all Jacks (or Monsters), pushing Infantry to the fore was basically a bait and switch.

Not really. Teaching someone the fury/focus mechanic on top of teaching them unit
rules in the game was a bit much.

**Vertrucio**

I think there was also a profit issue with promoting infantry the way they did.

I suspect they make more off an infantry unit sale, then more men to fill out that unit than a single jack purchase.

**George Spiggott**

Warjacks/Beasts certainly have a better points/cash ration at the moment.

My personal belief is that the old have x points to spend as you wish but you must buy a Warcaster will be replaced by a free Waraster and Warjack allowance (this much is known).

IMO the upshot of ths will be that the 500 point game will be replaced with the 250 point game which would be 250 points to spend on Units, Solos and possibly additional Warjacks (inc. Jack-marshalled Warjacks) plus the caster and Warjack allowance. I also believe that the starter boxes will be fieldable using only the Warjack allowance.

Of course I could be wrong...

**JohnHwangDD**

carmachu wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:

carmachu wrote:I really got tired of that and didnt want to play infantry machine.

Exactly. With the starters beeing all Jacks (or Monsters), pushing Infantry to the fore was basically a bait and switch.

No I dont think its bait and switch at all...I think that as the game progressed, there was no reason to take jacks.

Exactly. No reason to take Jacks, but the starters are all Jacks. Ergo, batin-and-switch.
____

malfred wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
malfred wrote:If it swings the other way, I'm going to miss my masses of troops.

The way I see it, if I wanted to play infantry-based battles, we have WFB and 40k and LotR for that.

You don't understand.

Teaching someone the fury/focus mechanic on top of teaching them unit rules in the game was a bit much.

No, you don't understand. WM should have been about Jacks as the stars, supported by some niche infantry, but PPP turned that on it's head. As it is, WM is about Troops, not Jacks. And that's what we have in pretty much every other game out there, save 40k (which is now becoming about large models because GW is the only company able to maket them economically).

Teaching Focus isn't hard at all. Maybe people were smarter when WM was first released?