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Yeah, if I get into Warmachine, I want to be able to field a gakload of Menoth 'Jacks with maybe a couple of Zealot or similar units and have it be effective. If I want lotsa infantry, other games have me covered. For me, the appeal of WM is the Warjack models.

Troops don't have it all good. If they all have to clustered into nice round units in order to be in command, they're also more vulnerable to blast weapons, and can't snake between areas of difficult terrain. I hope the layouts in the faction books are still as clear as they were in the original books, because I am getting more and more enthusiastic about this game the more I hear about it, and I'm not using those fething cards. I will keep track of damage on a sheet of paper with a regular pencil and eraser like the stubborn old redneck that I am and that's that!

warpcrafter wrote:Troops don't have it all good. If they all have to clustered into nice round units in order to be in command, they're also more vulnerable to blast weapons, and can't snake between areas of difficult terrain. I hope the layouts in the faction books are still as clear as they were in the original books, because I am getting more and more enthusiastic about this game the more I hear about it, and I'm not using those fething cards. I will keep track of damage on a sheet of paper with a regular pencil and eraser like the stubborn old redneck that I am and that's that!

Just print out grids from Tabletop Commander.

As for the starter box, I think the warjacks + warcaster gave you the most experience
with using multiple activations without getting bogged down in unit detail.

Even in Hordes, where I think the beasts look cool and all I'm still most attracted to
infantry models. So I have Trollbloods in order to field a Hero and Champions rather
than to field a Mauler or Blitzer, and I have Circle in order to field Tharn.

I can run beast/jack heavy when need-be, it's just not my primary interest in the game.

@warpcrafter - most people use hard sleeves (basically, clear rigid plastic card cases), and check off boxes with a dry-erase pen. Much easier.

warpcrafter wrote:Troops don't have it all good. If they all have to clustered into nice round units in order to be in command.

That will depend on how the out of command mechanics will work and if Cmd radius is still equal to Cmd stat in inches.

I wonder if there are a ton of rules in this update? Like for all the models released for WM so far?

I'm guessing there will be a list of changes rather than a full reprint of every model's rules.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Exactly. No reason to take Jacks, but the starters are all Jacks. Ergo, batin-and-switch.

Gods above and below your thick headed and single mindedly determined to your bias.

No, its not bait and switch. A starter set is suppose to be small, price pointed, and easy to learn. Its alot easier to learn thegame with 3-6 models, depending on faction, then it is to learn with 20.

You can learn how to play the entire game with those 3-4 models. Just stop.

Shame on Privateer Press! Trying to trick poor, innocent people into buying cool miniatures. What cheek!

I have the new NQ, I'll post what's in it as soon as I get a chance to look through it.

[edit] This thread would be better served if we simply ignored JohnHwangDD's deliverately baiting posts.

George Spiggott wrote:I have the new NQ, I'll post what's in it as soon as I get a chance to look through it.

[edit] This thread would be better served if we simply ignored JohnHwangDD's deliverately baiting posts.

Please do post away!

Are all casters updated? Do we get new spell lists/feats or major changes? I MUST KNOW ABOUT KARCHEV!

uh...past that...general info on what's in there and the format of it would be greatly appreciated.

And good call on ignoring DD's troll bait; I was going to respond and your post made me think better of it.

Oooo, units of 10 Knights Exemplar! My all-Exemplar army just started smiling.

carmachu wrote:Gods above and below your thick headed and single mindedly determined to your bias.

Just stop.

*holds up mirror*

Right back atcha.

I got into WM when it first came out, so don't be giving me any lip.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

carmachu wrote:Gods above and below your thick headed and single mindedly determined to your bias.

Just stop.

*holds up mirror*

Right back atcha.

I got into WM when it first came out, so don't be giving me any lip.

No problem.

Some people like tactics, others like throwing 40+ dice and hoping for lotsa 6's .

WM & Hordes aint for everyone.

Exactly.

Some people like combos and cookie-cutter overkill, as a nice diversion from actual (gasp!) tactics. That's why it's nice to have a variety of things.

But if PPP is rebalancing things more toward center, then necessarily, Infantry will be nerfed and Jacks will be better. A lot of people won't like that.

But I think it'd be better than mandating some kind of artificially restrictive FOC that requires Q Casters per N points having X Jacks and Y Infantry and Z Solos per Caster.

Ok, it's been bothering me so I have to ask. JHDD, why do you add a third P ("PPP") to Privateer Press?

Isn't it Privateer Press Productions (PPP)? Or I'm just imagining things?

Hmm... Wierd.

Now that I actually check, I think I've had it wrong.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Isn't it Privateer Press Productions (PPP)? Or I'm just imagining things?

Hmm... Wierd.

Now that I actually check, I think I've had it wrong.

Nope, it's Privateer Pres, Inc., actually.

PPP is Privateer Press Paints.

Pointless griping aside...

Infantry formations: Models in command range of leader are in formation. All units have 'Field promotion'.
Reaper: Gain Reach.
Necrotechs: Gain Repair.
Bane Knights: Gain Vengance (Don’t know what it does but it resolves in the control phase).
Karchev: Retooled into a terrifying killing machine!
Winter Guard: Three Rocketeers per unit.
Doom Reavers: Healthy point discount!
Charger: Powerful Attack.
Defender: Heavy barrel = POW 15
Storm Blades: Immune to Electricity (hints at a simple system for damage types and immunities).
Knights Exemplar: 10 man unit.
Severius: Convert is an ability.
Chain Weapons: Protectorate flails gain bonus vs. Shields and Shieldwall

Warmachine Mk II is released Jan 2010 along with faction decks. The faction books are released “immediately following” (Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun?).

No date for Hordes Mk II yet but is in the works.

Thank you.

edit: Anything else of interest in NQ?

The Khador tactics guide and 'Origins of human magic' look interesting. To be honest I've been more engrossed in my copy of Wargames Illustrated (the one with the ECW guy on the cover) this evening.

George Spiggott wrote:Pointless griping aside...

Infantry formations: Models in command range of leader are in formation. All units have 'Field promotion'.
Reaper: Gain Reach.
Necrotechs: Gain Repair.
Bane Knights: Gain Vengance (Don’t know what it does but it resolves in the control phase).
Karchev: Retooled into a terrifying killing machine!
Winter Guard: Three Rocketeers per unit.
Doom Reavers: Healthy point discount!
Charger: Powerful Attack.
Defender: Heavy barrel = POW 15
Storm Blades: Immune to Electricity (hints at a simple system for damage types and immunities).
Knights Exemplar: 10 man unit.
Severius: Convert is an ability.
Chain Weapons: Protectorate flails gain bonus vs. Shields and Shieldwall

Warmachine Mk II is released Jan 2010 along with faction decks. The faction books are released “immediately following” (Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun?).

No date for Hordes Mk II yet but is in the works.

I'm sorry George. No Quarter was released today and I no longer think that this information
is the coolest thing in the No Quarter magazine.

It's this: http://pokeminiatures.blogspot.com/2009/03/no-quarter-23-warmchine-mark-2-and.html

malfred wrote:It's this: http://pokeminiatures.blogspot.com/2009/03/no-quarter-23-warmchine-mark-2-and.html

QFT

Seriously, I went into it thinking that there were more rules in the NQ issue.

Oh well, this issue had the #1 thing that allayed my fears of WM MK2 and honestly, made me conclude that PP is still leagues ahead of GW as a games company that cares about its rules and fans:

WM MK2 Rules Release Jan 2010

Every army faction book for Warmachine (5 books) will be released one at a time, each month after the core rules book.

No waiting 9+ years for my fething rules. Worst case you wait 5 months and you get your rules.

Oh and the release order of the faction books is determined by the results/rankings of the 2009 Summer Rampage Event/Campaign.

Sounds interesting, but I'm more eager to hear about some of the SWEEPING changes they're making to the ruleset, BEFORE hearing about the rebalancing of units.

For instance, is this immunity to X going to be common? How are they reworking warcasters and army selection? What new "general rules" are they instituting and which are disappearing.

Then I'll worry about how many points my units cost and how many new toys I get in them.

You aren't alone there, but apparently we have to wait a week+ for April to roll around and then we can download the beta MK2 rules.

Honestly, I'm just ecstatic that PP has come out and stated that while there will be faction books, they will be released over 5 months, not 5 years.

The Khador tactics article kind of sucks. There just isn't enough space in the article, so the individual casters only get one paragraph each that consists of such useful tidbits like "Use Zerkova's Arcane Artifacts!" and "Icy Gaze freezes things!"

The Amon article was all right. It didn't really add anything to Amon, but it did let us know about an anti-Menoth faction of Idrians.

The Origins of Human Magic article was great, though. It talks about when Thamar and her first Scions were still mortal and where they got the knowledge to strike a deal with Infernals for the Gift. It also hints that the debt owed to them was put off for a few centuries, and that it is soon coming due. This really makes me want to see more Thamarites and some Infernals/Infernalists on the tabletop.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:You aren't alone there, but apparently we have to wait a week+ for April to roll around and then we can download the beta MK2 rules.

The impression I got from that article was that they would release the rules sooner rather than later because the field test would be over by the end of April. Which makes some sense, because they'll need time to playtest any changes that result from our feedback themselves before finalizing the rules and sending it off to the printers for a January release. And they're going to want this finished so they can start focusing on the faction books as soon as Summer Rampage ends.

Honestly, I'm just ecstatic that PP has come out and stated that while there will be faction books, they will be released over 5 months, not 5 years.

Abso-fething-lutely. I was worried that we would see one faction book a year over the next few Gencons before getting back to the main storyline and release method and, oh yeah, the Retribution.