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I have played a lot recently with my daemons and even when i let my friend (who is just now learning how to play) has never lost, rarely ties and mostly wins.

We mainly play against nids, tau, SM, csm, guard/inquisition, daemonhunters (yes, and win every time)

Still need to play against the Eldars, orks, and witchhunters

Please tell me I am just playing newbs.

Lists we most commonly run are Ku'gath, 1 GUO with 2 fiends, 30 PBs, 20 daemonettes and 6 screamers. 1 Soulgrinder

I never thought I'd have to post something like this but how would you beat this kind of list?

I don't mean to be an arsehole but I just want opinions so i know what to look out for

I would use tactics.

Mech armies make it hard for your Deamons. Mech Eldar and Mech tau are the big ones.

yes, tactics should be the key to every win but i don't ever see it

Seriously though, how would someone exactly go upon facing daemons?

Armies that are fast and have a lot of vehicles should do just fine. Or an ork gunline.

Then there's leaving nearly everything in reserve and motoring onto the board once the initial wave of Daemons is on the board without targets for T1.

ARe the space marine players not playing with SternGuard or landraiders?

That said Space Marine Librarian w/ Nullzone Gate

2 Squad sternguard

Honestly, both my Mech Eldar and Dakka Orks wouldn't fear a list like that.

My DW wouldn't like it much, but I could always hold them in reserve and come in after 1/2 the Demons come in 1st turn (which is my usual plan with them against other DSing armies) Then I would try to kill the opponents scoring units with focused fire, while they have to kill 4-5 sqauds of termies in the late game....and pray the dice go my way.

Nurglitch wrote:Then there's leaving nearly everything in reserve and motoring onto the board once the initial wave of Daemons is on the board without targets for T1.

This has been done to me many times by eldar, they always come in reserve, but i always stomp them when they do this.

Oh, I know. I always stomp on generic armies when they execute some vague tactic alluded to on the intarwebz. You know, with my shooting and my assault.

Terminators w/ TH & SS in redeemers, Shrike and Vulkan combo.

Nurglitch wrote:Oh, I know. I always stomp on generic armies when they execute some vague tactic alluded to on the intarwebz. You know, with my shooting and my assault.

actually having a shooting and an assault isnt the issue at all. Its just that, when some armies try to do "a daemon thing" it comes out garbage, usually in objective missions.

Sternguard_rock wrote:Terminators w/ TH & SS in redeemers, Shrike and Vulkan combo.

honestly, is this what marines are all about these days? sounds like a lash deja vu.

LOL I get that.

I would probably sneak up behind you with a club.

I would play my balanced deathwing list with my grand master, and play you no differently than any other opponent. I would most likely lose, but the idea of playing a strong army with a gimp, luck reliant one makes me feel good inside, if for nothing else, because if I even tie you, I feel as if I have accomplished something.

Thus are the tactics of a Dark Angels player.

Nenya97 wrote:
Please tell me I am just playing newbs.

Lists we most commonly run are Ku'gath, 1 GUO with 2 fiends, 30 PBs, 20 daemonettes and 6 screamers. 1 Soulgrinder

Your list is nothing special, and should be beat by most well built armies in the hands of a decent player.

The fact that you are winning so much speaks to the level of your competition.

2 fiends and 6 screamers. and 1 SG. hmm there might be something wrong with the opponents.

I will use my 3 LRC templar list. The LRC are loaded with assault temies, sword brethens and 1 crussader squad. Also have 1 predator anhilator and 1 tank hunt dread with TLLC and missile launcher.

So my tactics will be shoot the soulgrinder with predator and dread. Shoot the demonettes and screamers with crrussader bolters and assault cannons. After that, assault the great demons with units inside LRC and let the LRC to deal with PBs.

ps: Well this is in 2500 points situation.

I must agree with hollison, My own sm gate army aggravates the local demon armies, however I have been getting shot up pretty good by the local ork gun lines.

2 fiends drop quickly to concentrated firepower. Heavy weapons are aimed at the soulgrinder until it's destroyed or immobilized (usually good enough), or my ironclad(s) charges and whacks it. 20 daemonettes get bolters to the face, or flamers. The GUOs are slow, so I can mostly maneuver away from them. Kugath's missiles are annoying but not much more. Plaguebearers I can either engage with dreads, termies, or simply tank-shock off objectives. You have no real answer to AV14 short of close-combat, and once the Grinder is dealt with the GUOs are too slow to really do much. Putting in mystics/psycannons or Null Zone librarians would only make it worse.

Blackmoor said it. The list you are running is not the most powerful demon build. If you run the fateweaver + bloodthirster, multiple units of blodocrushers, plaguebearers for objectives and 3 soul grinders you will find that your list will be universally reviled(except by those playing that list).

Your list as it is, most armies just need to make sure they have some weapons that counter feel no pain (PFs, plasma guns, anything ap 2 or better, etc) for the PB's and a little shooting for the demonettes. The rest will sort themselves out shortly after that. A single soul grinder while good is not overwhelming, nor is a few DP's. Screamers are also good, but not over powering.

Meph

Mmmmmm... Ork Gunlines... I would just load up on mobz of dakka units like lootas and shoota boys and Kanz. Big 'unz git shooted at by big gunz, weenie onez gets killed by dakka. Simple.


-A.

Depends on the players you're going up against, and the nature of the armies/forces they're fielding. Hell, the write-up here on how to work a Grey Knights army might well give your force a helluva run for its money.

That said, I originally played at a GW store, and would regularly stomp the yard against most opponents save buta few. Those few I played with as much as possible, because they forced me to change my tactics and mindset. One was a wicked good Dark Eldar player, another ran with IG, and both (and several others) rarely made mistakes, carefully considered their options, and would make me pay dearly for any error in judgment.

And, really, Ork Gunline just has 'win' written all over it, no matter the outcome. =)

This army would be cake to beat for the guys at my store. Here's 2 lists that I personally run:

Ironclad Spam:

Master of the Forge
2 Tactical Squads with Melta/Plasma Cannons, Razorbacks
6 Ironclad Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods
3 Land Speeders, MM/HB

Against your list I would deploy the 'Clads on the table screening my tacticals, the Speeders would move 7+ inches every turn, and my Master of the Forge would basically hang out while my Ironclads stomped on your daemons and the speeders/razorbacks shot everything to death. I would drop the pods onto your objectives so you couldn't claim with the PlagueBearers, and just keep bogging you down and running you over with unkillable walkers. Ironclads versus Soulgrinders is epic fail for Daemons.

Ork Dakkamob:

Big Mek with KFF

9x Killa Kan with Grotzookas
1x Deff Dread
79 Boyz, Shootas, PK Nob
12 Trukk Boyz, PK Nob, Boarding Plank/Red Paint
3x Nobs
Battlewagon dedicated to Nobz, Boarding Plank
30 Lootas

Killa Kans and Def Dreads bog down and slowly kill all your Daemons. Kanz shooting blows away 20 Daemons a turn (yes, really).

Lootas blow big Daemons off the board as soon as they land.

Trukk/Battlewagon with Big Mek inside are used to contest/wall off objectives, KFF makes your minimal shooting worthless.

Daemons are great in the assault versus MEQ. Unfortunately, they're equally bad against mechanized or gunline lists.

Nurglitch advised leaving everything in reserve to "deny the daemons anything to shoot at" (or something to that effect). This is the worst possible advice you can give to somebody fighting Daemons. Daemons are undercosted for what they are capable of as fast/elite assault models. The only thing that makes it "fair" is that they come in piecemeal and have to endure shooting from 100% of your army before they assault. Putting all your stuff in reserve to come in piecemeal does nothing but remove the only disadvantage that Daemons suffer from. The only lists that can get away with that sort of approach are heavily mechanized, and therefore cannot be hurt by daemons anyway and should have been on the board shooting for greater effect from turn 1.

Fateweaver with an ass-ton of Bloodcrushers. That isn't to say I've tried them.

You could bar all of the gods but Nurgle and take Nurglings and Epidemius. Nurglings that can kill Carnifexes

8 blood crushers
8 blood crushers
8 blood crushers

theres the base of the army.

8 crushers charging a unit of plagues:

32 attacks
24 hits (ish)
16 wounds
11 wounds after saves
no FNP as they ignore saves.

10 plagues hit back:

10 attacks
5 hits
2 wounds
0.5 ish wounds after saves.

daemonettes do slightly better in return, but still get slaughtered.


8 blood crushers attack Ku'gath:

32 attacks
16 hits
8 wounds
4 wounds after saves

ku'gath strikes back:

5 attacks
3 hits
1.5 ish wounds
1.2 wounds after saves.



amazing what crushers can do

im tired, so the maths may be a slight bit wrong in places :(

Actually, Kugath would likely wound all three times, since he would wound them on 2s with a reroll (yay poison). Note also that he has defensive grenades, so no charge bonus for the crushers. The daemonettes would likely do much better than the plaguebearers, as they have both defensive grenades and strike first, though the only wounds they get would be rends.

1500
3 X 15 lootas
3 X 30 shootas nobs w/pk
2 X SAG mek

2000
3 X 15 lootas
5 X 30 shootas nobs w/pk
2 X SAG mek


They will kill you dead.

sourclams:

Of course that tactic would be used by a mechanized force. This is 5th edition.