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Sasori wrote:

Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?

The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.

Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?

Is it the 5th yet?

Balor wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?

The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.

Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?

Is it the 5th yet?

Yes, the other weapon option on the Immortals is the Tesla Carbine. Keep in mind BoW labeled the pictures wrong, Read what Kroot says above the pictures.

Sasori wrote:

Balor wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?

The Gauss Blaster is the Immortal Gun. It's still Strength 5 AP 4, but is now rapid fire. Still has the Gauss special rule.
The Tesla Carbine is Strength 5 AP - Assault 1 With the Tesla Special rule
The Gauss Flayer (Warriors) is Still strength 4 A 5 Rapid fire, with the Gauss Special rule.

Ah oops I did not read the caption of the image, so is that "other gun" the tesla carbine?

Is it the 5th yet?

Yes, the other weapon option on the Immortals is the Tesla Carbine. Keep in mind BoW labeled the pictures wrong, Read what Kroot says above the pictures.

HAHA ya I missed that the first five times checking out all the new stuff. I guess I'm just stocked to finally have a codex that will be updated. 24 warriors are done with their uploaded paint scheme and only 50 more to go! I love the fact the I will not need to be moding out my warriors to get the new weapons or having to deal with a new redesign box of models for my warriors.

Hmm, godo point about the Immortals box. I coudl use Warrior bodies and possibly build 10 immortals, 5 with blasters and 5 with Tesla.

Not fussed abotu the Deathmarks really, that may change once i have read the rules properly.

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

All characters are cheese, not really, they provide tactical options for an army (Logan, Pedro etc) a close combat powerhouse (Kharn, Ragnar, Swarmlord), or army benefits (Chapter Tactics, Vect etc.) for a high points cost. Most of them aren't cheese, with vulkan being an exception, they just give a benefit to the army for a higher points cost than most generic HQ. Calling all SCs cheese is just as silly as all the Mat Ward hate.

Balor wrote:I'm truly more curious about the warriors and the immortals at this point. I love the idea of the immortals getting tesla carbines. Do the warriors have anything else besides gauss rifles? Do we have the different stat lines on the weapons yet? I know the immortals base gun is now rapid fire but is it still S5 AP4 and what the heck is a guass blaster?

A gauss Blaster is the Immortal's Base gun that is S5 AP4 rapid fire.

mcmuffin wrote:

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

All characters are cheese, not really, they provide tactical options for an army (Logan, Pedro etc) a close combat powerhouse (Kharn, Ragnar, Swarmlord), or army benefits (Chapter Tactics, Vect etc.) for a high points cost. Most of them aren't cheese, with vulkan being an exception, they just give a benefit to the army for a higher points cost than most generic HQ. Calling all SCs cheese is just as silly as all the Mat Ward hate.

Yeah I dont even think Vulcan can be called cheese, I mean, I never use a SC cos I havent painted one, but I always field a Librarian.

He gives all sorts of buffs to the units in the army, is fielding a librarian cheese!?

They have a points cost, you pay it. I dont see it as cheese at all, and I have no issue playing against someone who uses one, you just have to play accordingly.

I think it gives me an advantage in many cases, because I know exactly HOW it buffs his army, and play accordingly.

I wish i coudl say SCs are cheese and ban them in mygames group! I am sick of dying to my friends Space Wofl Death Star unit of Ragnar + Rune Priest + Ass Termies (inlcuding the dude that can boomerang a thunderhammer) in a Land raider.

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.

iproxtaco wrote:

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.

In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.

Ostrakon wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.

In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.

Yah, except for those games where the phase out rule is not in effect for whatever reason.

Rare to nonexistent, at least in my experience

Won't matter in a week or two anyway

Ostrakon wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:

tarnish wrote:gotta say im not too hot on all these special characters and their rules... i much prefer the generic character with options to a pre-packaged harbinger of awesome sauce.
in my gaming group we regard all special chars as cheese and never use them, and quite honestly i cant see the ones in the necron dex changing that...

You have a very strange gaming group. Aun'va is cheese? The Phoenix Lords are cheese? Without a doubt this is one of the strangest things I've heard in a while.

In the vast majority of nerdic games (40K, WFB, MtG, D&D, and many others) it's easier to call something "cheese" or "broken" than it is to actually figure out how to deal with it. You also have to account for the fact that a lot of casual gaming groups might never get exposed to, say, forums on the internet that might tell them how easy it is to play around things that they previously considered overpowered. So, that one kid who fields a monolith phalanx is suddenly a powergamer because it never occurred to his buddies to just take out the 15 necron models it would take to phase him out, and they get pissed because they just keep throwing all their fire at the 'liths.

Which is a good point, and I know at least one little gaming group that I interact with now and again who have the same beliefs. I'm no tactician, but I at least try to tell them to do this, or that, depending on what I read on here, but they refuse. They don't go as far as not using SCs because they're 'cheese' but they have ingrained opinions of certain builds because they refuse to change what they're doing to try and counter them. The Lith' Phalanx is a prime example actually. I've told them, ditch some of that CC stuff, get yourself the best weapon you can find in the codex, and go for the troops.
I think this is strange because, well, they've banned all SCs on account of 'cheese', when most, if not all SC's, have obvious disadvantages and strengths. To put it simply, you get what you pay for with an SC. You may pay upwards for 150 points for this one model, but they're good for their price (most of them). The strangest thing is, tarnish is online, on dakka, if they have problems, the tactics sub-forum is just a click away for him.

Two things I need to ask:
1) If I preorder my models to be sent in store, can I pick them up the very next day after the release, only I might not be able to get in on release day
2) This new Reanimation Protocols, how are we gonna portray their saves on forums? Overlord 2+/3++/5+++ ? Seems right to me

Crity! 79 pages of posts in a week. Think they got our attention. So, nobody likes the flayed ones. They wouldn't put bloody skin in the art because moms buy these kits for kids - but if you want blood, paint jobs will take care of that. Personally, I was never into the bloody skin thing, so I painted mine with white shirts and black pants - kinda like Mormon missionaries (no offense meant).
I like all the new models which is painful budget-wise. Thank C'Tan I get a fat discount working at a hobby shop. Definitely getting some of the new boats. Does look like the big gun on a boat is kinda lost in the sculpt, but paint might fix that... or a razor knife. Seems nobody liked the old Pariahs, so will be interesting to see if the Praetorians get used. The disk flyers are nice, but not sure about the two gunners. As for the Tomb King thing, everybody knows the Egyptians were visited by extra-terrestials.
I think the skimmer boats are great as Necrons were always a slow army. Disappointed you only get one big gun boat per army - Imperials get to bring a bunch.
Overall, I like the new stuff - after all, Necrons were way overdue for a refurb. Course it will all come down to the codex. And the bling on the Lords... they are just over-magnetized and that stuff just happens to get stuck on them. My Ork looters like all the extra bling. And the head-dress controversy - if you slept for a gazillion years, what do you do for THAT bed-head - you get a fancy hat with appendages.

ciaotym wrote:Crity! 79 pages of posts in a week. Think they got our attention. So, nobody likes the flayed ones. They wouldn't put bloody skin in the art because moms buy these kits for kids - but if you want blood, paint jobs will take care of that. Personally, I was never into the bloody skin thing, so I painted mine with white shirts and black pants - kinda like Mormon missionaries (no offense meant).
I like all the new models which is painful budget-wise. Thank C'Tan I get a fat discount working at a hobby shop. Definitely getting some of the new boats. Does look like the big gun on a boat is kinda lost in the sculpt, but paint might fix that... or a razor knife. Seems nobody liked the old Pariahs, so will be interesting to see if the Praetorians get used. The disk flyers are nice, but not sure about the two gunners. As for the Tomb King thing, everybody knows the Egyptians were visited by extra-terrestials.
I think the skimmer boats are great as Necrons were always a slow army. Disappointed you only get one big gun boat per army - Imperials get to bring a bunch.
Overall, I like the new stuff - after all, Necrons were way overdue for a refurb. Course it will all come down to the codex. And the bling on the Lords... they are just over-magnetized and that stuff just happens to get stuck on them. My Ork looters like all the extra bling. And the head-dress controversy - if you slept for a gazillion years, what do you do for THAT bed-head - you get a fancy hat with appendages.

Where are you getting the Only one Gunboat per Army? You can have 1 for every heavy support slot.

With regards to the new Lychguard, which gear set up are you guys going to do?

Shields/Hyperphase or Warscythes?

G. Whitenbeard wrote:With regards to the new Lychguard, which gear set up are you guys going to do?

Shields/Hyperphase or Warscythes?

Prolly Shields and Swords.

Though I am tempted to get like 10 of them with scythes and stick then in a nightscythe.

Ascalam wrote:Rare to nonexistent, at least in my experience

Won't matter in a week or two anyway

You must not play a lot of different missions or apoc then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

G. Whitenbeard wrote:With regards to the new Lychguard, which gear set up are you guys going to do?

Shields/Hyperphase or Warscythes?

Why not a squad of both? *Shrug* that's what I'll do, anyway, though I'll find it hard to justify NOT taking the 4++ shields...unless they're expensive or I need to save points. Still wish you could do a half and half split or something.

I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out

My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'

I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.


Sword and Board for me, if o get any of them

They look nice overall, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

HQ:

I like how they look. If the fluff says that they are sentient, their appearance makes sense. They try to highlight their individuality with robes, gildings etc. They modify themselves to suit their personal style.

Elites:

Lynch Guard. These guys, I don't like. They look to like Tomb Kings in space, with all those shields and ornamental armor. They are just mindless drones, so why decorate them so much? Same with Praetorians.

Immortals. I like them, because they have not changed much. Good work on those. I love the new eyes, they look more frightening.

Flayed ones. My god... They are terrible... Human skin does not hang around like that, nor does it look "nice and clean" considering they rip it off of their victims. Lets pray it is just painted badly. Also, the hips... Seriously, are they here to fight or to give birth?

Deathmarks. Cool idea, nice models, but I fear they turn out to be new Ratlings, another useless sniper squad with few wounds, and no CC value.

Vehicles

Command barge. Makes no sense to me, why would a commander need a ridiculous floating podium to guide his troops? After all, the Necron Lord's value should be in CC, not driving around in fancy barges barking commands like an IG officer.

Support barge. Please... Whatever you do, do not ditch Destroyers and/or Heavy Destroyers because of these... They look a lot better.

Ghost ark. Ridiculous. Why would they need a transport which offers little to no protection and looks like the Ultramarines lent the walls to it? Also, the pilot. Necron vehicles are supposed to be automated machines like monoliths, so why is the pilot there? And why is he on such a place that any fellow who calls himself a sniper can boomheadshot him? I don't like it at all. Looks like droid transporter from Star Wars.

Doomsday Ark. That makes more sense than Ghost ark, at least. But all the weapons look like it is going to be a pain in the ass to kill. I hope it won't be a gamebreaker, considering that it has more weapons than an Ork vehicle.

I hope that they don't change the look of the missing models much. I for one, thought they looked cool.

Ascalam wrote:I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out

My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'

I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.


Sword and Board for me, if o get any of them

Well I don't mean specifically worded as such (or even near to it), though I think there may be one or two that state something to the effect of army wide limitations or restrictions are lifted. But, there's a chaos or tau mission in the book where non-vehicle units that are wiped out enter play again at the beginning of the next turn as if they were entering for the first time. It's a KP mission and because of that rule it was impossible for my opponent to kill enough in one round to phase me out (though I ended up slaughtering him in KP's, like 12-3).

Depends on who you're playing against and how many people are playing. if you're playing apoc at a FLGS with randoms or like 10+ people, then ya, snooze fest for the crons. But you can still play apoc rules in smaller games. I've played a few with my 3 buddies and I've always done very well. Even when I'm taking horrible lists that have no destroyers and 10 pariahs and flayed ones. LoL Anyway, like you said it won't matter in a week or two anyway.

Also, 2 apoc units? The giant gun thing and....what else? Are you referring to the Tomb Stalker or the necron phalanx (though that's not a unit)?

yakface wrote:
NECRON ARMY-WIDE SPECIAL RULES

• We'll Be Back from the previous codex has been replaced by Reanimation Protocols (sorry I keep accidentally calling it Resurrection Protocols in some of these teasers). It now works at the end of each phase, but only on a 5+. You now remove models and place a token or marker next to the unit to remind you how many rolls to make (although you could just use the downed models as markers, but the important thing is you know that these markers don't affect gameplay at all). The rules are very clear about when/how models that return to play via RP are placed and if the entire unit is wiped out then the unit is gone and no RP rolls can be taken. Similarly, if the only model left in the unit is a character (such as a joined IC or a Cryptek/Lord) then these models alone are not sufficient to allow the other models to attempt their RP rolls. Nearly every non-vehicle unit in the game benefits from RP (as opposed to the old WBB, which only worked for 'Necrons'), except for the C'Tan shards.

Reanimation Protocols returns the model to play with a single wound unless they have a Phylactery in which case they come back (the first time they get back up) with D3 wounds.

a little bit nerfed, but when I see the majority of price reductions, It feels appropriate.

• Ever-Living. This is basically just an additional Reanimation Protocol rule that characters have to describe how they're placed back on the table. Only characters (including basic Lords & Crypteks) have this rule, no squads do. The only real thing to note about it is that if the model wasn't joined to a unit when it went down, then if it returns to play it must be placed within 3" of the spot it fell. So characters are the only models it really matters where their 'marker' is placed when they are removed. So in some situations, such as an enemy unit killing a character with Ever-Living in CC and then consolidating on top of his marker, it would be entirely possible to prevent him from returning to play (as they can't if you are unable to place them within 3" of the spot they went down).

sooo... a fancy way to say WBB...


- Edited by insaniak. Quoting the entire first post makes your post huge and your commentary almost invisible. -

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:They look nice overall, but there are a few things worth mentioning.

HQ:

I like how they look. If the fluff says that they are sentient, their appearance makes sense. They try to highlight their individuality with robes, gildings etc. They modify themselves to suit their personal style.

Elites:

Lynch Guard. These guys, I don't like. They look to like Tomb Kings in space, with all those shields and ornamental armor. They are just mindless drones, so why decorate them so much? Same with Praetorians.

Immortals. I like them, because they have not changed much. Good work on those. I love the new eyes, they look more frightening.

Flayed ones. My god... They are terrible... Human skin does not hang around like that, nor does it look "nice and clean" considering they rip it off of their victims. Lets pray it is just painted badly. Also, the hips... Seriously, are they here to fight or to give birth?

Deathmarks. Cool idea, nice models, but I fear they turn out to be new Ratlings, another useless sniper squad with few wounds, and no CC value.

Vehicles

Command barge. Makes no sense to me, why would a commander need a ridiculous floating podium to guide his troops? After all, the Necron Lord's value should be in CC, not driving around in fancy barges barking commands like an IG officer.

Support barge. Please... Whatever you do, do not ditch Destroyers and/or Heavy Destroyers because of these... They look a lot better.

Ghost ark. Ridiculous. Why would they need a transport which offers little to no protection and looks like the Ultramarines lent the walls to it? Also, the pilot. Necron vehicles are supposed to be automated machines like monoliths, so why is the pilot there? And why is he on such a place that any fellow who calls himself a sniper can boomheadshot him? I don't like it at all. Looks like droid transporter from Star Wars.

Doomsday Ark. That makes more sense than Ghost ark, at least. But all the weapons look like it is going to be a pain in the ass to kill. I hope it won't be a gamebreaker, considering that it has more weapons than an Ork vehicle.

I hope that they don't change the look of the missing models much. I for one, thought they looked cool.

Well, the lord can (from what yak said and how I interpreted it) do a "sweep attack" in the command vehicle and hit every unit it passes over with his melee attacks, so...ya, there's that at least.

Also, why would "snipers" have any sort of CC capability to begin with? I mean, that's the antithesis to being a sniper.

Why did you go and quote the whole first post?

Kevin949 wrote:

Ascalam wrote:I play a lot of different missions, but my opponents tend to only want to play the ones that still force me to use phase out

My local tournament usually uses the standard missions, or the Battle Missions book ones. Occasionally they'll throw in a wierd one, but oddly enough none of them ever seem to include the line 'Phase out suspended'

I don't play Apocalypse with Necrons, because the battles are horribly one sided. Necrons only have 2 Apoc units, and neither is all that awesome.


Sword and Board for me, if o get any of them

Well I don't mean specifically worded as such (or even near to it), though I think there may be one or two that state something to the effect of army wide limitations or restrictions are lifted. But, there's a chaos or tau mission in the book where non-vehicle units that are wiped out enter play again at the beginning of the next turn as if they were entering for the first time. It's a KP mission and because of that rule it was impossible for my opponent to kill enough in one round to phase me out (though I ended up slaughtering him in KP's, like 12-3).

Depends on who you're playing against and how many people are playing. if you're playing apoc at a FLGS with randoms or like 10+ people, then ya, snooze fest for the crons. But you can still play apoc rules in smaller games. I've played a few with my 3 buddies and I've always done very well. Even when I'm taking horrible lists that have no destroyers and 10 pariahs and flayed ones. LoL Anyway, like you said it won't matter in a week or two anyway.

Also, 2 apoc units? The giant gun thing and....what else? Are you referring to the Tomb Stalker or the necron phalanx (though that's not a unit)?

*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'

Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks

My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...

Ascalam wrote:

*shrug* I'm good enough with Necrons (currently... i will be terrible with the new codex for a while until i adapt ) that i rarely phase out anyway, but my opponents refuse to let go of their 'win-button'

Apoc pickup games always seem to begin with 'i'll go get my Titan... ' or 'jim, get the baneblades out of the truck, will you..' . I have played a couple with Necrons, but i find them a lot more fun with my Orks

My mistake One Apoc unit (Pylon) and one other forgeworld model (Stalker) from the IA books, which the local crowd only allow in Apoc games ...

Ya, my buddy has a baneblade...luckily I didn't have to face it. But I hear ya, I think I've only phased out once and that was when I was still learning the game (only been playing a few years now).

Wow, they only let the stalker play in apoc games? that's horrible, but it's...kind of a let down even in regular games, more so that it takes a slot away from the monolith (non-apoc, of course).

iproxtaco wrote:Why did you go and quote the whole first post?

Idk, but he needs to get slapped.

Me, I'd let the Stalker in any game I play with somebody that has it, of course provided it fits in the points limit and they have the rules sheet for it.

If for no other reason than to get to stare at the nice model for an hour and some.

Im just wondering if I built the doomsday ark could I use the spare necrons from the kit as plain necron warriors even though they dont have any weapons and are inactive?