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 ClassicCarraway wrote:


ST5 only wounds MEQ on 3+ and plague marines on a 4+. From the rumors, the grav-cannon armed centurions only have a single gun but have something called a grav amp that gives To Wound rerolls or something. I am definitely intrigued, because one of my wish lists for this codex was some sort of new weapon type because the las/melta/plasma/bolter/flamer selections were getting kind of boring.

If he is referring to wounding using the Armor save vs Toughness then 5str to 3save would be a 2+.

It really only becomes "broken" provided it also has a low Ap or high Str.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:


ST5 only wounds MEQ on 3+ and plague marines on a 4+. From the rumors, the grav-cannon armed centurions only have a single gun but have something called a grav amp that gives To Wound rerolls or something. I am definitely intrigued, because one of my wish lists for this codex was some sort of new weapon type because the las/melta/plasma/bolter/flamer selections were getting kind of boring.

Good thing Grav guns wound on the armor save. Plague Marines still get wounded on a 3+ with an ap of 2. Not bad. They'll be great against TEQ and MCs. The strength is there so they can pen vehicles.

I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

If I recall from some pictures and disscussion a few pages ago about the Vanguard kit correctly, it'll have barely enough stuff to make the 5 guys and 1 or two bits more. I was sorely dissapointed in it for 50.

Don't get me wrong though its a beautiful kit.

Well we don't know they actually are $50.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

10 man squad plus full size accessory sprue?

I can't see GW price gouging, so it must be a massive kit. [/sarcasm]

I can totally see GW price gouging.

 azreal13 wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

10 man squad plus full size accessory sprue?

I can't see GW price gouging, so it must be a massive kit. [/sarcasm]

My Dire Avengers just started crying blood... strange.

I am really into this new release because of the new hunter/stalker tanks. Since flyers are starting to become more prevalent in my meta (FMCs have been there right along) some allied AA is looking good. Oh, and I still have an allied detachment of Black Templars sooooo.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

I would hazard a guess we'll get one of each combi, powerfist, power weapon, 5 bolters, some extra heads and pouches and crap. The combi weapons will influence people to buy the kit or bits to equip sargeants, characters etc. I would be surprised if it includes special weapons. Oh yeah I almost forgot about the awesome heavy flamer. IMHO, of course.

Nocturnus wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

I would hazard a guess we'll get one of each combi, powerfist, power weapon, 5 bolters, some extra heads and pouches and crap. The combi weapons will influence people to buy the kit or bits to equip sargeants, characters etc. I would be surprised if it includes special weapons. Oh yeah I almost forgot about the awesome heavy flamer. IMHO, of course.

Please don't try to justify the cost by comparing it to a kit that gives just as many if not more options I imagine. The justification makes no sense, it's just price gouging and people will buy it.

I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

 azreal13 wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

10 man squad plus full size accessory sprue?

I can't see GW price gouging, so it must be a massive kit. [/sarcasm]

Well looking at the two pics of the vanguard squad the heraldry on the storm shields are different so if this isn't interchangeable there could be quite a lot in this kit and hopefully the sternguard reflect this too.

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

I like the idea of that, wounding terminators on a 2+, even if you don't bypass the armor makes it pretty decent, and naturally it would suck against T-shirt saves like guardsman and orks, but thats what Bolters are for anyways. Most importantly, like any really good variant weapon, its going to be about the after effects. If it really does make spot it hits difficult terrain it could be an amazing force multiplier. Think about slowing down charging termies, that chance of immobilizing a vehicle, or better yet, wounding jet pack and jump troops when they blast out of it!

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

Ok, I finally managed to see all the pictures now... and if this is GW's viral marketing, it worked. It truly did, I'm loving everything about these new SMs, if the rumors about the several special editions are true, I'll probably go nuts and get myself a Salamander's one if it looks as good as the Black Templars'!

Man, I so want to "jump on the bandwagon" with this release, everything looks so freakin' cool, I really am hyped!

 Kirasu wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
I'm very curious to know what's in the Sternguard kit to make it $50.

The Grey Knight kit comes with enough wargear to make 1 of 3 units with almost all their options, and is $35. The Sternguard had better come with enough gear to strike down the Emperor Himself should they choose it to justify that.

I would hazard a guess we'll get one of each combi, powerfist, power weapon, 5 bolters, some extra heads and pouches and crap. The combi weapons will influence people to buy the kit or bits to equip sargeants, characters etc. I would be surprised if it includes special weapons. Oh yeah I almost forgot about the awesome heavy flamer. IMHO, of course.

Please don't try to justify the cost by comparing it to a kit that gives just as many if not more options I imagine. The justification makes no sense, it's just price gouging and people will buy it.

Who's justifying the price? I think it's insane $50 ($60CDN for us) for 5 space marines. I was simply stating what I thought might be in the box.

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

My biggest issue with them being AP2 is that it would make Plasma seem kinda redundant. It would also give access to an AP2 anti-infantry gun with no drawback (gets Hot!), while still killing things just as effectively.

So, long shot I know, but did we get any news on this subject from Gamesday Germany?

Grav weapons potentially being AP2 makes me suddenly intrigued. Sure, they probably won't do much against orks or IG, but being able to tear apart elite enemy forces could be fun.

I feel bad for CSM though, if the SM get solid AA (hellturkey popping) and then these grav weapons, well, CSM will get stomped flat.

I wonder how much they'll cost, and how much fire they can pump out each.

 Aleph-Sama wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

My biggest issue with them being AP2 is that it would make Plasma seem kinda redundant. It would also give access to an AP2 anti-infantry gun with no drawback (gets Hot!), while still killing things just as effectively.

Plasma would still be better at handling light armour such as Rhinos and even Dreadnoughts since the Grav gun could not harm the latter. Not to mention you may get more shots with the Plasmagun. Also, Plasmaguns will always wound most TEQ and MEQ on a 2+ wheras the Grav gun would wound on a 3+ vs Power Armour (something that is far more common in 40k than 2+).

Yea....that black templar cover looks AMAZING. Also same with the black templar centurions.

I am excited about this release.....I am gonna have to get a bunch of money saved up and work done before they come out......

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

My biggest issue with them being AP2 is that it would make Plasma seem kinda redundant. It would also give access to an AP2 anti-infantry gun with no drawback (gets Hot!), while still killing things just as effectively.

Plasma would still be better at handling light armour such as Rhinos and even Dreadnoughts since the Grav gun could not harm the latter. Not to mention you may get more shots with the Plasmagun. Also, Plasmaguns will always wound most TEQ and MEQ on a 2+ wheras the Grav gun would wound on a 3+ vs Power Armour (something that is far more common in 40k than 2+).

and in a TAC list you end up squaring off against Orks and your expensive special weapon is worse than a lasgun.

 Exergy wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

My biggest issue with them being AP2 is that it would make Plasma seem kinda redundant. It would also give access to an AP2 anti-infantry gun with no drawback (gets Hot!), while still killing things just as effectively.

Plasma would still be better at handling light armour such as Rhinos and even Dreadnoughts since the Grav gun could not harm the latter. Not to mention you may get more shots with the Plasmagun. Also, Plasmaguns will always wound most TEQ and MEQ on a 2+ wheras the Grav gun would wound on a 3+ vs Power Armour (something that is far more common in 40k than 2+).

and in a TAC list you end up squaring off against Orks and your expensive special weapon is worse than a lasgun.

Buuuut, if you slowed down the green tide with making difficult terrain then you have accomplished something, like giving your bolters another turn to chew through them.

 Exergy wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:

 Mkvenner wrote:

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I can't see Grav weapons being AP2 or 1. If it wounds based on armour save, then I imagine it works by having a greater kinetic impact caused by the mass of heavier armour slamming into the center of the shot. On the other hand, lighter armours wouldn't have as much inertia as they are lighter, so they don't have as much kinetic energy transfered from the shot. Gravity is a constant acceleration between objects based on Newton's law of universal gravitation, although it's a bit more complex thanks to relativity, so I imagine a grav shot to be similar in effect to the singularity grenades in borderlands. If that were the case, then I could see the profiles like this:
Grav-Pistol S4 AP4 12" Pistol, Grav
Grav-Gun S4 AP4 24" Assault 1 Blast Grav
Grav-Cannon S5 AP4 36" Heavy 1 Large Blast, Grav

Maybe S5 on all of them, but that makes a bit of a difference between 3+ and 4+ saves. We'll see.

A fella who had the White Dwarf claimed that they were AP2 and wounded on the enemy's armour saves. So I'm inclined to believe him, especially when he mentions that a full salvo cleared a power armour unit in the WD batrep.

My biggest issue with them being AP2 is that it would make Plasma seem kinda redundant. It would also give access to an AP2 anti-infantry gun with no drawback (gets Hot!), while still killing things just as effectively.

Plasma would still be better at handling light armour such as Rhinos and even Dreadnoughts since the Grav gun could not harm the latter. Not to mention you may get more shots with the Plasmagun. Also, Plasmaguns will always wound most TEQ and MEQ on a 2+ wheras the Grav gun would wound on a 3+ vs Power Armour (something that is far more common in 40k than 2+).

and in a TAC list you end up squaring off against Orks and your expensive special weapon is worse than a lasgun.

They are S4 or S5 but we don't know yet, they can be S10 because no one has come out to confirm it yet.

It might be blast/ salvo, Assualt, we don't know so no they won't be useless. If thy have a strength value then they might also say only use the armour value if it's better than S vs T

Do you think grav weapons will have the haywire rule, given their fluff?

Imperial Deceit wrote:
I can totally see GW price gouging.

There's no such thing as price gouging. You make yourself look foolish by claiming GW does so.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Do you think grav weapons will have the haywire rule, given their fluff?

i could probably see haywire weapons keeping haywire and grav weapons getting "grav"

 ph34r wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Do you think grav weapons will have the haywire rule, given their fluff?

i could probably see haywire weapons keeping haywire and grav weapons getting "grav"

What would the difference be? If grav weapons are low S as the rumors say it will need some kind of special rule to hurt vehicles, and I'll be disappointed if they just resort to Armorbane....