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Hmm. Spartan can easily gain a reliable -1 to be hit via DAs, and also is a great target for the endurance spells. Definitely worth thinking about.

Spartan full of Havocs would be pretty hilarious.

Isn't it something ridiculous like 500 points?

 ph34r wrote:
Spartan full of Havocs would be pretty hilarious.

Isn't it something ridiculous like 500 points?

477 if you take the 2 quad lascannons (!) and heavy bolters. The fat bastard has 20 wounds, can pop smoke, has Steel Behemoth, and can hold 25(!) dudes.

Deployment: spartan containing Havocs, Berzerkers hiding nearby

Beginning of game: DA hides it

First turn: Havocs disembark and shoot, Berzerkers get on board, Sorcerer gives Spartan Warptime & Delightful Agony

letthebodieshitthefloor.mpg.exe

You can have, at most, 14 chain cannons inside the spartan...So that's 112 (134 with EC) shots, deleting everything within 24+3+6 inches around the tank.

Sounds pretty tasty.

necrotekkie wrote:
You can have, at most, 14 chain cannons inside the spartan...So that's 112 (134 with EC) shots, deleting everything within 24+3+6 inches around the tank.

Sounds pretty tasty.

GUNSHIP MODE.

Also that is how much price for dakka?

Not Online!!! wrote:

necrotekkie wrote:
You can have, at most, 14 chain cannons inside the spartan...So that's 112 (134 with EC) shots, deleting everything within 24+3+6 inches around the tank.

Sounds pretty tasty.

GUNSHIP MODE.

Also that is how much price for dakka?

About 900pts. :-p That's a terrible competitive investment... but super fun!

Pretty sure the Spartan can only carry one squad (up to 20 models.) So 4 chain cannons max.

NM: the wording changed. 25 models total, no single unit restriction.

I'm thinking of running some Possessed in my World Eater/DG army, and I'm wondering how best this can be done. I do plan to use my Greater Possessed, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I am going to do with them. I am thinking of giving them the Nurgle and Death Guard marks, but would the WE and Khorne marks be better (technically I could run two units if points allowed for it)? I read on 1d4chan that DE Possessed are also significantly helped by a Herald of Nurgle?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm thinking of running some Possessed in my World Eater/DG army, and I'm wondering how best this can be done. I do plan to use my Greater Possessed, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I am going to do with them. I am thinking of giving them the Nurgle and Death Guard marks, but would the WE and Khorne marks be better (technically I could run two units if points allowed for it)? I read on 1d4chan that DE Possessed are also significantly helped by a Herald of Nurgle?

Best bet is probably a large unit of Nurgle-marked Alpha Legion Possessed. Buff with Benediction of Darkness, Miasma of Pestilence, and then Warptime them into enemies.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm thinking of running some Possessed in my World Eater/DG army, and I'm wondering how best this can be done. I do plan to use my Greater Possessed, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I am going to do with them. I am thinking of giving them the Nurgle and Death Guard marks, but would the WE and Khorne marks be better (technically I could run two units if points allowed for it)? I read on 1d4chan that DE Possessed are also significantly helped by a Herald of Nurgle?

If you run Possessed as Death Guard then the Greater Possessed won’t buff them since DG can’t take Greater Possessed and you’ll be committed to 2 detachments. I’ve run blobs of 20 as Nurgle with Nurgle Daemon Prince support and it’s not great in all honesty. On foot their too slow and if you make them a Death Star with -3 to hit and 4++ people just ignore them and score the objectives. Nurgle does buff them well but so does Slaanesh. Either way you’ll end up investing too many points in them. Better to just throw 7-8 in a Rhino with a Master of Possession and Greater Possessed backed up by other melee threats like Berserkers or Daemon engines. With a MoP they’re not bad as his powers buff them a bit and the stratagem for Daemonkin gives you +1S & +1A.

Edit. To the guy who posted above me, this is exactly what I tried and it doesn’t work well. It’s around 700 points for one unit that can be tar pitted and ignored. Warptime only works on one unit and causes problems leaving the support elements behind to get picked off by deep strikers. I’d strongly advise against going death star with them.

So lots of theory for mass daemon engine lists but how have they been working for people?

Malefic666 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm thinking of running some Possessed in my World Eater/DG army, and I'm wondering how best this can be done. I do plan to use my Greater Possessed, but beyond that, I'm not sure what I am going to do with them. I am thinking of giving them the Nurgle and Death Guard marks, but would the WE and Khorne marks be better (technically I could run two units if points allowed for it)? I read on 1d4chan that DE Possessed are also significantly helped by a Herald of Nurgle?

If you run Possessed as Death Guard then the Greater Possessed won’t buff them since DG can’t take Greater Possessed and you’ll be committed to 2 detachments. I’ve run blobs of 20 as Nurgle with Nurgle Daemon Prince support and it’s not great in all honesty. On foot their too slow and if you make them a Death Star with -3 to hit and 4++ people just ignore them and score the objectives. Nurgle does buff them well but so does Slaanesh. Either way you’ll end up investing too many points in them. Better to just throw 7-8 in a Rhino with a Master of Possession and Greater Possessed backed up by other melee threats like Berserkers or Daemon engines. With a MoP they’re not bad as his powers buff them a bit and the stratagem for Daemonkin gives you +1S & +1A.

Edit. To the guy who posted above me, this is exactly what I tried and it doesn’t work well. It’s around 700 points for one unit that can be tar pitted and ignored. Warptime only works on one unit and causes problems leaving the support elements behind to get picked off by deep strikers. I’d strongly advise against going death star with them.

I don't think it's a good build, but it's the best way to run Possessed.

Best way imo is 10 in the specialist detachment with MoP and DA for company. They make a decent target for BD and will do work with the +1A/S stratagem. If they get killed your MoP and DA can buff the rest of your army instead.

World Eaters Possessed:
- can benefit from a Greater Possessed, Dark Apostle, Exalted Champion
- if you take a Daemons detachment, can forget about an Icon of Wrath
- guaranteed 2-4A on the charge, 3-5 if you use Daemonkin strat
- can spend 3CP to fight twice

Death Guard Possessed:
- can benefit from psychic powers (potentially including Warptime, if you take a Sorcerer on Palanguin and you can persuade everyone to follow a certain reading of RAW, otherwise a Purge detachment is amazing anyway), Blightbringer, Tallyman
- can benefit from Gnarlmaw for 1+ save if you lose T1, which also enables T1 advance x 2 via Warptime then charge
- Epidemius synergy (make that T1 charge with Purge Oblits on gunner detail and you can be pretty sure of getting a bunch of charges on him)
- stacking Locus of Virulence with any or all of VotLW, Virulent Blessing, and Blades of Putrefaction significantly upgrades their damage output

Hobby tip if you like both: build 25 Possessed. 15 with gribbly arms lacking pauldrons (Tyranid talons are a good call). Paint them all with white armour. Of the ten with pauldrons, paint five with them blue with WE/khornate symbols and five with them green with DG/nurglitch symbols. Of the others, paint the gribbly arms black and insecty. Splatter all of them with gore. You can now field a max squad of WE or DG Possessed who hulked out during the Horus Rebellion and didn’t repaint their original Legion colours.

Possessed can be buffed to almost infinitely high levels. Use BL possessed, dont give them a mark. Now use the Chosen of the Pantheon stratagem to give them all 4 marks of chaos. Now go with three psykers of slaanesh, tzeentch and nurgle. Use up to three dark apostles to prayer them with Benediction of Darkness for -1 to get hit, and Soultearer portent for +1 to wound, and Infernal Power to re-roll 1s to hit and wound. The three psykers cast Weaver of Fates for +1 inv, Miasma of Pestilence -1 to get hit, Delightful Agonies for a 5+ FNP. A MoP can cast Cursed Earth on them, for another +1 inv. VOTLW gives them another +1 to wound. Use Prescience for +1 to hit.

Now you have a unit which is -2 to hit, has a 3+ inv, 5+ FNP, gets +1 to hit, and gets +2 to wound. And can re-roll 1s to hit and wound. It can fight twice with the khorne fight again stratagem. A greater possessed will give them S+1. A herald of tzeentch, herald of slaanesh, herald of nurgle give them another S+1 for each herald, up to +3.

I dont recommend doing all of the above, though

Just to add, the new Slanaash named daemon prince which is also a combined herald has 3 slanaash auras it can confer onto slanaash possessed and it hits like a truck. (It has even more attacks than the LD).

Slanaash possessed will be getting +1 str, rerolls 1 to hit and advance and charge from the 3 auras that named DP gives. And the guy is on foot, so he really syncs up really well with possessed and greater possessed.

The +1 str auras stack with the one provided by greater possessed too.

I do think there is probably a case to be made for a fun, if not wholly powerful, combo there. Plus you can model daemonette possessed and tick off everyone who h8s the idea of female space marines XD

 p5freak wrote:
Possessed can be buffed to almost infinitely high levels. Use BL possessed, dont give them a mark. Now use the Chosen of the Pantheon stratagem to give them all 4 marks of chaos. Now go with three psykers of slaanesh, tzeentch and nurgle. Use up to three dark apostles to prayer them with Benediction of Darkness for -1 to get hit, and Soultearer portent for +1 to wound, and Infernal Power to re-roll 1s to hit and wound. The three psykers cast Weaver of Fates for +1 inv, Miasma of Pestilence -1 to get hit, Delightful Agonies for a 5+ FNP. A MoP can cast Cursed Earth on them, for another +1 inv. VOTLW gives them another +1 to wound. Use Prescience for +1 to hit.

Now you have a unit which is -2 to hit, has a 3+ inv, 5+ FNP, gets +1 to hit, and gets +2 to wound. And can re-roll 1s to hit and wound. It can fight twice with the khorne fight again stratagem. A greater possessed will give them S+1. A herald of tzeentch, herald of slaanesh, herald of nurgle give them another S+1 for each herald, up to +3.

I dont recommend doing all of the above, though

and you casually just spen't 4 HQ slots on BL, so about 2 detachments not to mention points and stratagems, i mean i agree the skys' the limit for possesed but the price is also equal as high.

Not Online!!! wrote:

and you casually just spen't 4 HQ slots on BL, so about 2 detachments not to mention points and stratagems, i mean i agree the skys' the limit for possesed but the price is also equal as high.

Thats why you have to cherry pick from all the possibilities. Not all HQ have to be BL. The three slaanesh, nurgle and tzeentch psykers can be from any legion. Their psychic powers work on any HERETIC ASTARTES which has their mark. The MoP and DA have to be from BL, because their buffs only work on units from the same legion.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Just to add, the new Slanaash named daemon prince which is also a combined herald has 3 slanaash auras it can confer onto slanaash possessed and it hits like a truck. (It has even more attacks than the LD).

Slanaash possessed will be getting +1 str, rerolls 1 to hit and advance and charge from the 3 auras that named DP gives. And the guy is on foot, so he really syncs up really well with possessed and greater possessed.

The +1 str auras stack with the one provided by greater possessed too.

The Epitome - two Heralds with a mirror - looks great, too. M12, 8W, Cavalry, near immunity to MW, buffed DTW x 2 - that’s a brilliant escort for Possessed and/or Daemon engines that want to advance & charge against a list rich in psykers & snipers. Definitely making them a high priority. (If only they’d sort out Delightful Agonies.)

I was going to use the epitome with fiends. I was thinking of using a combination of fiends locking people into combat and morale immune cultists to escort heavy hitting characters up the board.

What's the thoughts on venom crawlers?? I think they are quite a decent little unit and want to include a couple in my black legion force alongside a lord discordant. The plan is to have multiple angles of attack in my 2k list.

Want Abby leading a blob of 30 cultists with a couple of small CSM units with chaimcannons and combi bolter champions and maybe even have the oblits tagging along.
At the rear will sit a squad of havoc's with lascannons plinking away at tough targets, maybe 2 squads!
In deepstrike will be 10 terminators all armed with combi bolters and chainaxes.
Then finally a distraction force of 2 X venom crawlers with a lord discordant to just rush the enemy and scare them.

Until castellan knights are nerfed, pretty much all other vehicles, except certain indirect fire models, are unusable and you have to build skew lists just to compete.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
What's the thoughts on venom crawlers?? I think they are quite a decent little unit and want to include a couple in my black legion force alongside a lord discordant. The plan is to have multiple angles of attack in my 2k list.

Want Abby leading a blob of 30 cultists with a couple of small CSM units with chaimcannons and combi bolter champions and maybe even have the oblits tagging along.
At the rear will sit a squad of havoc's with lascannons plinking away at tough targets, maybe 2 squads!
In deepstrike will be 10 terminators all armed with combi bolters and chainaxes.
Then finally a distraction force of 2 X venom crawlers with a lord discordant to just rush the enemy and scare them.

Venomcrawlers as a distraction force... let's look at them for a second.

Movement 10, WS 4, 10 wounds, 6 attacks, T 7, 3+ save, 2 D3 shots and S and Movement degrade at 4 wounds.

I'm not sure there's enough there to qualify as scary. The Lord Dischordant, sure, but a Venomcrawler isn't particularly threatening on it's own.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
What's the thoughts on venom crawlers?? I think they are quite a decent little unit and want to include a couple in my black legion force alongside a lord discordant. The plan is to have multiple angles of attack in my 2k list.

Want Abby leading a blob of 30 cultists with a couple of small CSM units with chaimcannons and combi bolter champions and maybe even have the oblits tagging along.
At the rear will sit a squad of havoc's with lascannons plinking away at tough targets, maybe 2 squads!
In deepstrike will be 10 terminators all armed with combi bolters and chainaxes.
Then finally a distraction force of 2 X venom crawlers with a lord discordant to just rush the enemy and scare them.

Venomcrawlers as a distraction force... let's look at them for a second.

Movement 10, WS 4, 10 wounds, 6 attacks, T 7, 3+ save, 2 D3 shots and S and Movement degrade at 4 wounds.

I'm not sure there's enough there to qualify as scary. The Lord Dischordant, sure, but a Venomcrawler isn't particularly threatening on it's own.

2 of them with the lord all going fists together will surely get some attention, basically just want them to hopefully take some of the fire for the other units, either that or just take multiple lord ds?

So guys I'm going to build a list around a couple of fw models, kytan and blood slaughterer. Will have a LD with them.

I dont know much about the deamons units, any advice for khorne buffs, tactics? From what I can see these two models dont really need the strength buff, but anything to help mitigate damage or get them into combat faster? (I know the basics, warptime, soulforge strat. Etc.)

drakerocket wrote:
So lots of theory for mass daemon engine lists but how have they been working for people?

Pretty well, just did a small tournament today. Not very competitive because it was random doubles (so I played Black Legion together with Sisters of Battle one game ). Especially the Lord Discordant is extremely powerful if played correctly. Mine had the Indomitable Warlord Trait together with the Sightless Helm. Was hilarious in a duel with a twin Talon DP because it only barely managed to scratch my paint. Really, the thing is dead 'ard and an absolute blender in melee. Especially if you buff it with Daemonforge. Baleflamer is also a surprisingly nasty weapon with an actually pretty good range. It also works very well along Venomcrawlers which can keep up with it (gotta remember to apply the aura buff to the Crawler though, I constantly forget about that). I mostly kept my Forgefiend close to my Master of Possession which worked... decently well. Still very swingy performance, one turn it took off 8 wounds of a Knight with a single salvo, next turn it hardly scratches the paint of a bunch of Castelans.

All in all I'm especially impressed with the Lord Discordant but it will need list tailoring. I only had a Master of Possession for psychic powers (I switched out Smite for Warptime twice with Chaos Familiar to get it across the board, worked very nicely) so I couldn't get stuff like Delightful Agonies on the Lord Discordant and in 2k games you will need a Knight or Daemon Primarch to play Distraction Carnifex for it. Also, the MoP really can't keep up with the Discordant and Venomcrawlers, it's much more suited for buffing up Possessed blobs and babysitting Forgefiends. Also, you'll want at least a batallion to run it in because it eats CP like it eats vehicles in melee while Daemonforge'd.

All in all, if I had to make a Daemon Engine list that isn't just 3x Lord Discordant I'd get 1x Lord Discordant (Mark of Slaanesh probably for Delightful Agonies), 3x Venomcrawler, a Castellan or Crusader for fire support and Distraction Carnifex duty, one or two Jump Pack Psykers to cast buffs on the Engines and fill out troop slots with CSM squads with Bolter/ Combibolter/ Chaincannon. If there's any points left after that you can fill it out with whatever toys strike your fancy, I'd probably go for a bunch of Havocs with Chaincannons for additional anti-horde.

Thanks for all the advice. I intend to most likely DS them (Can a Blightbringer be deep struck?) along with my Bloodletters to force my opponent to have to choose between being shot in the front or stabbed from behind. At the moment, I intend to have my Bloodletter force be a battalion of three units of ten, with the HQ's being two Bloodmasters and Skulltaker.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Hobby tip if you like both: build 25 Possessed. 15 with gribbly arms lacking pauldrons (Tyranid talons are a good call). Paint them all with white armour. Of the ten with pauldrons, paint five with them blue with WE/khornate symbols and five with them green with DG/nurglitch symbols. Of the others, paint the gribbly arms black and insecty. Splatter all of them with gore. You can now field a max squad of WE or DG Possessed who hulked out during the Horus Rebellion and didn’t repaint their original Legion colours.

Wow, that's an interesting idea, a may do that with a few of them. For most my WE Possessed, I was thinking of having them being bright red or night black, with possibly a mixture of the two, and maybe some brass thrown in. For my DG Possessed, they'll probably be painted a sickly green (I love the picture in the DG codex), though some also might be painted sickly yellow and/or dripping black to represent bile and black diarrhea respectively. I just love the concept of DG Possessed. Most Plague Marines are already horrific, utterly inhuman and diseased monsters in and of themselves. To have them be possessed by a horrific and diseased daemon has the potential for some truly sick (in both meanings of the word) designs.

Another question that I have is concerning the Aspiring Champion model, the one with the plasma gun, axe and knife. I love the model design as it syncs well with the new CSM designs, but I'm confused as to how it's placed into a larger CSM army. The rules state that each CSM unit has one Aspiring Champion which is armed with one chainaxe, but the AS stand-alone model has a power axe. As I can't find any special rules for this model (I'm guessing that the rules concerning Vrosh Tattersoul are now obsolete), I don't exactly know how this guy could be placed into a larger CSM force.

just brought LoD and have only 1 venom crawler so which daemon-engine is the best for melee ?
1. Maulerfiend
2. Venomcrawler