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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 16:55:18
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Grovelin' Grot
Sweden
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Earthhour.org wrote:VOTE EARTH
YOUR LIGHT SWITCH IS YOUR VOTE
This year, Earth Hour has been transformed into the world’s first global election, between Earth and global warming.
For the first time in history, people of all ages, nationalities, race and background have the opportunity to use their light switch as their vote – Switching off your lights is a vote for Earth, or leaving them on is a vote for global warming. WWF are urging the world to VOTE EARTH and reach the target of 1 billion votes, which will be presented to world leaders at the Global Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen 2009.
This meeting will determine official government policies to take action against global warming, which will replace the Kyoto Protocol. It is the chance for the people of the world to make their voice heard.
Earth Hour began in Sydney in 2007, when 2.2 million homes and businesses switched off their lights for one hour. In 2008 the message had grown into a global sustainability movement, with 50 million people switching off their lights. Global landmarks such as the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, Rome’s Colosseum, the Sydney Opera House and the Coca Cola billboard in Times Square all stood in darkness.
In 2009, Earth Hour is being taken to the next level, with the goal of 1 billion people switching off their lights as part of a global vote. Unlike any election in history, it is not about what country you’re from, but instead, what planet you’re from. VOTE EARTH is a global call to action for every individual, every business, and every community. A call to stand up and take control over the future of our planet. Over 74 countries and territories have pledged their support to VOTE EARTH during Earth Hour 2009, and this number is growing everyday.
We all have a vote, and every single vote counts. Together we can take control of the future of our planet, for future generations.
VOTE EARTH by simply switching off your lights for one hour, and join the world for Earth Hour.
Saturday, March 28, 8:30-9:30pm.
Do you care?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/27 18:25:10
Take it easy... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 17:25:12
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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I am so going to turn on every light, appliance, and electrical device on if I remember and am there. You have to do what you can to protest before the new "volunteer" mandatory requirements for my kids go into effect, replete with uniforms, meeting ceneters, and organiztional leadership.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510937,00.html
U.N. 'Climate Change' Plan Would Likely Shift Trillions to Form New World Economy
Friday, March 27, 2009
By George Russell
Print ShareThisA United Nations document on "climate change" that will be distributed to a major environmental conclave next week envisions a huge reordering of the world economy, likely involving trillions of dollars in wealth transfer, millions of job losses and gains, new taxes, industrial relocations, new tariffs and subsidies, and complicated payments for greenhouse gas abatement schemes and carbon taxes — all under the supervision of the world body.
Those and other results are blandly discussed in a discretely worded United Nations "information note" on potential consequences of the measures that industrialized countries will likely have to take to implement the Copenhagen Accord, the successor to the Kyoto Treaty, after it is negotiated and signed by December 2009. The Obama administration has said it supports the treaty process if, in the words of a U.S. State Department spokesman, it can come up with an "effective framework" for dealing with global warming.
The 16-page note, obtained by FOX News, will be distributed to participants at a mammoth negotiating session that starts on March 29 in Bonn, Germany, the first of three sessions intended to hammer out the actual commitments involved in the new deal.
In the stultifying language that is normal for important U.N. conclaves, the negotiators are known as the "Ad Hoc Working Group On Further Commitments For Annex I Parties Under the Kyoto Protocol." Yet the consequences of their negotiations, if enacted, would be nothing short of world-changing.
Getting that deal done has become the United Nations' highest priority, and the Bonn meeting is seen as a critical step along the path to what the U.N. calls an "ambitious and effective international response to climate change," which is intended to culminate at the later gathering in Copenhagen.
Just how ambitious the U.N.'s goals are can be seen, but only dimly, in the note obtained by FOX News, which offers in sparse detail both positive and negative consequences of the tools that industrial nations will most likely use to enforce the greenhouse gas reduction targets.
The paper makes no effort to calculate the magnitude of the costs and disruption involved, but despite the discreet presentation, makes clear that they will reverberate across the entire global economic system.
• Click here for the information note.
Among the tools that are considered are the cap-and-trade system for controlling carbon emissions that has been espoused by the Obama administration; "carbon taxes" on imported fuels and energy-intensive goods and industries, including airline transportation; and lower subsidies for those same goods, as well as new or higher subsidies for goods that are considered "environmentally sound."
Other tools are referred to only vaguely, including "energy policy reform," which the report indicates could affect "large-scale transportation infrastructure such as roads, rail and airports." When it comes to the results of such reform, the note says only that it could have "positive consequences for alternative transportation providers and producers of alternative fuels."
In the same bland manner, the note informs negotiators without going into details that cap-and-trade schemes "may induce some industrial relocation" to "less regulated host countries." Cap-and-trade functions by creating decreasing numbers of pollution-emission permits to be traded by industrial users, and thus pay more for each unit of carbon-based pollution, a market-driven system that aims to drive manufacturers toward less polluting technologies.
The note adds only that industrial relocation "would involve negative consequences for the implementing country, which loses employment and investment." But at the same time it "would involve indeterminate consequences for the countries that would host the relocated industries."
There are also entirely new kinds of tariffs and trade protectionist barriers such as those termed in the note as "border carbon adjustment"— which, the note says, can impose "a levy on imported goods equal to that which would have been imposed had they been produced domestically" under more strict environmental regimes.
Another form of "adjustment" would require exporters to "buy [carbon] offsets at the border equal to that which the producer would have been forced to purchase had the good been produced domestically."
The impact of both schemes, the note says, "would be functionally equivalent to an increased tariff: decreased market share for covered foreign producers." (There is no definition in the report of who, exactly, is "foreign.") The note adds that "If they were implemented fairly, such schemes would leave trade and investment patterns unchanged." Nothing is said about the consequences if such fairness was not achieved.
Indeed, only rarely does the "information note" attempt to inform readers in dollar terms of the impact of "spillover effects" from the potential policy changes it discusses. In a brief mention of consumer subsidies for fossil fuels, the note remarks that such subsidies in advanced economies exceed $60 billion a year, while they exceed $90 billion a year in developing economies."
But calculations of the impact of tariffs, offsets, or other subsidies is rare. In a reference to the impact of declining oil exports, the report says that Saudi Arabia has determined the loss to its economy at between $100 billion and $200 billion by 2030, but said nothing about other oil exporters.
One reason for the lack of detail, the note indicates, is that impact would vary widely depending on the nature and scope of the policies adopted (and, although the note does not mention it, on the severity of the greenhouse reduction targets).
But even when it does hazard a guess at specific impacts, the report seems curiously hazy. A "climate change levy on aviation" for example, is described as having undetermined "negative impacts on exporters of goods that rely on air transport, such as cut flowers and premium perishable produce," as well as "tourism services." But no mention is made in the note of the impact on the aerospace industry, an industry that had revenues in 2008 of $208 billion in the U.S. alone, or the losses the levy would impose on airlines for ordinary passenger transportation. (Global commercial airline revenues in 2008 were about $530 billion, and were already forecast to drop to an estimated $467 billion this year.)
In other cases, as when discussing the "increased costs of traditional exports" under a new environmental regime, the report confines itself to terse description. Changes in standards and labeling for exported goods, for example, "may demand costly changes to the production process." If subsidies and tariffs affect exports, the note says, the "economic and social consequences of dampening their viability may, for some countries and sectors, be significant."
Much depends, of course, on the extent to which harsher or more lenient greenhouse gas reduction targets demand more or less drastic policies for their achievement.
And, precisely because the Bonn meeting is a stage for negotiating those targets, the note is silent. Instead it suggests that more bureaucratic work is needed "to deepen the understanding of the full nature and scale of such impacts."
But outside the Bonn process, other experts have been much more blunt about the draconian nature of the measures they deem necessary to make "effective" greenhouse gas reductions.
In an influential but highly controversial paper called "Key Elements of a Global Deal on Climate Change," British economist Nicholas Lord Stern, formerly a high British Treasury official, has declared that industrial economies would need to cut their per capita carbon dioxide emissions by "at least 80% by 2050," while the biggest economies, like the U.S.'s, would have to make cuts of 90 percent.
Stern also calls for "immediate and binding" reduction targets for developed nations of 20 percent to 40 percent by 2020.
To meet Stern's 2050 goals, he says, among other things, "most of the world's electricity production will need to have been decarbonized."
Click here for Stern's paper.
By way of comparison, according to the U.S. Department Of Energy, roughly 72 percent of U.S. electrical power generation in 2007 was derived from burning fossil fuels, with just 6 percent coming from hydro-power and less than 3 percent from non-nuclear renewable and "other" sources. And even then, those "other" non-fossil sources included wood and biomass — which, when burned, are major emitters of carbon.
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/032709_informationnote.pdf
because its change I can believe in.
http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/Expanded-Americorps-has-stench-of-authoritarianism-41869152.html
Examiner Editorial: Expanded Americorps has stench of authoritarianism
Examiner Editorial 3/26/09
With almost no public attention, both chambers of Congress in the past week advanced an alarming expansion of the Americorps national service plan, with the number of federally funded community-service jobs increasing from 75,000 to 250,000 at a cost of $5.7 billion. Lurking behind the feel-good rhetoric spouted by the measure’s advocates is a bill that upon closer inspection reveals multiple provisions that together create a strong odor of creepy authoritarianism.
The House passed the measure overwhelmingly, while only 14 senators had the sense and courage to vote against it on a key procedural motion. Every legislator who either voted for this bill or didn’t vote at all has some serious explaining to do.
Last summer, then-candidate Barack Obama threw civil liberties to the wind when he proposed “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the regular military. The expanded Americorps is not quite so disturbing, but a number of provisions in the bill raise serious concerns.
To begin with, the legislation threatens the voluntary nature of Americorps by calling for consideration of “a workable, fair and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people.” It anticipates the possibility of requiring “all individuals in the United States” to perform such service, including elementary school students.
The bill also summons up unsettling memories of World War II-era paramilitary groups by saying the new program should “combine the best practices of civilian service with the best aspects of military service,” while establishing “campuses” that serve as “operational headquarters,” complete with “superintendents” and “uniforms” for all participants. It allows for the elimination of all age restrictions in order to involve Americans at all stages of life. And, it calls for the creation of “a permanent cadre” in a “National Community Civilian Corps.”
But that’s not all. The bill also calls for “youth engagement zones” in which “service learning” is “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”
This updated form of voluntary community service is also to be “integrated into the science, technology, engineering and mathematics curricula” at all levels of schooling. Sounds like a government curriculum for government-approved “service learning,” which is nothing less than indoctrination.
Now, ask yourself if Congress members who voted for this monstrosity had a clue what they were voting for. If not, they’re guilty of dereliction of duty. If they did, the implications are truly frightening.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 17:41:47
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Indeed Frazzled.
Just a load of smug inducing Hippy nonsense that. Why should I do it just on that day to make myself feel better and ever so slightly superior.
I make sure I turn things off at the plug when I'm not using them. I feel no need to make a song and dance about it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 17:46:51
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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But petulantly turning everything possible on is just kinda dumb. If you don't agree with it, ignore it. All turning stuff on is gonna do is up your electricity bill.
I find it amusing too that you are protesting environmentalism for the sake of your children.
Edit to answer the question: I'll more than likely be out and about in Dublin at the time, but most of the pubs are observing it. I do agree that it's a pretty pointless token gesture designed to make us all feel better.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/27 17:47:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 17:49:30
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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No I am protesting coercive PC thought control.
I like how the wackhjobs are protesting proposals to build new wind and solar farms in the California desert. If you can't build a sun farm in the desert, where can you? The nuts are running the asylum.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 17:51:00
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Sslimey Sslyth
Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.
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Sorry, cannot turn lights off, painting for Adepticon.
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I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!
The best 40k page in the Universe
COMMORRAGH |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:07:14
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Frazzled wrote:No I am protesting coercive PC thought control.
I like how the wackhjobs are protesting proposals to build new wind and solar farms in the California desert. If you can't build a sun farm in the desert, where can you? The nuts are running the asylum.
It was the same when they built a wind farm down my way- some protesters vandalised the powercables! Some people will protest anything.
I especially get annoyed over here when they give out about making roads through historical sites. Everywhere's a historical site, but people need roads, damnit!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:24:13
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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Grovelin' Grot
Sweden
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Well, what I think people really need to do to make a change is to always be strict turning of unnecessary stuff that is driven by electricity when they not is needed. This hour can make people realize it's important.
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Take it easy... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:27:06
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Frazzled wrote:I am so going to turn on every light, appliance, and electrical device on if I remember and am there. You have to do what you can to protest before the new "volunteer" mandatory requirements for my kids go into effect, replete with uniforms, meeting ceneters, and organiztional leadership.
Young Republicans really getting organised for the next election huh ?
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:30:19
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Earthhour.org wrote:This year, Earth Hour has been transformed into the world’s first global election, between Earth and global warming. For the first time in history, people of all ages, nationalities, race and background have the opportunity to use their light switch as their vote – Switching off your lights is a vote for Earth, or leaving them on is a vote for global warming.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/03/27 18:30:51
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:40:04
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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reds8n wrote:Frazzled wrote:I am so going to turn on every light, appliance, and electrical device on if I remember and am there. You have to do what you can to protest before the new "volunteer" mandatory requirements for my kids go into effect, replete with uniforms, meeting ceneters, and organiztional leadership.
Young Republicans really getting organised for the next election huh ? 
Its a DEMOCRATIC President's proposal Reds8n.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:43:53
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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Yeah, but that wouldn't get up your nose you see.
And she-who-must-be-obeyed...a democrat ?  PFFFTT. Some hope. Anti christ maybe..oh hang on that's the same thing isn't it
It's more of a global proposal really.Wait..
....did Obama win that as well ? Damn he's ambitious.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:46:42
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:No I am protesting coercive PC thought control.
No, you're presuming that a person educated in a given way will never have the will to reject that education. It shouldn't matter what a child is taught. If they are intelligent they will see through it. Either way, a pro-environment campaign is hardly related to indoctrination. Certainly not any more than anything I write on the internet is related to indoctrination.
It should also be mentioned that nothing about Americorps is actually being changed. The program is simply being expanded. All the features of the organization which are discussed in the second article you quoted already exist in the NCCC.
As for the global warming article, its from FOX. That's all I will say.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/27 18:47:17
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:46:45
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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She Who Must Be Obeyed is not impressed by rules. Much like traffic signs, to her they are merely a guideline
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:50:11
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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dogma wrote:Frazzled wrote:No I am protesting coercive PC thought control.
No, you're presuming that a person educated in a given way will never have the will to reject that education. It shouldn't matter what a child is taught. If they are intelligent they will see through it. Either way, a pro-environment campaign is hardly related to indoctrination. Certainly not any more than anything I write on the internet is related to indoctrination.
It should also be mentioned that nothing about Americorps isn't actually being changed. The program is simply being expanded. All the features of the organization which are discussed in the second article you quoted already exist in the NCCC.
1. Wo you're thinking way too deep on a Friday Dogma. I'll counterbalance with less thinking on this end.
2. Already existing-hardly. If that were the case it would only be a funding increase.
This is how it starts.
As for the global warming article, its from FOX. That's all I will say.
I also attached the underlying UN document.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:51:39
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I have a feeling this will be like Earth Day for most people.
Sometimes as a kid I'd got to the zoo and be like: "It's fething Earth Day?!"
The next day the few people who cared to know/remember will ask their co-workers if they turned off the light and observed Earth Hour or whatever and everyone else will respond: "Earth Hour? What's that? I was watching Same Old Crap followed by That Show You Watched In The 80's With A Different Name And Cast."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 18:59:58
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:
2. Already existing-hardly. If that were the case it would only be a funding increase.
This is how it starts.
It is only a funding increase. The rest of the tripe in that piece was just a verbatim (though heavily spun) description of what the NCCC has been since 1992.
Frazzled wrote:
I also attached the underlying UN document.
Yeah, economic adjustments to counter climate change. I don't see the problem. Even if climate change isn't real the affects of their proposal are already occurring naturally via market force.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/27 19:00:18
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 19:47:04
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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China has stated if you try to impose tariffs to simulate cap and trade, as that document proposes, China will declare it a trade war under another UN entity GATT.
Economic adjustments to counter climate change-you mean millions out of work here, for no environmental benefit? Nuts.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 20:20:48
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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Hippies are less easy to beat over t'internets, these days.
sA
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My Loyalist P&M Log, Irkutsk 24th
"And what is wrong with their life? What on earth is less reprehensible than the life of the Levovs?"
- American Pastoral, Philip Roth
Oh, Death was never enemy of ours!
We laughed at him, we leagued with him, old chum.
No soldier's paid to kick against His powers.
We laughed - knowing that better men would come,
And greater wars: when each proud fighter brags
He wars on Death, for lives; not men, for flags. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 20:34:17
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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Frazzled wrote:China has stated if you try to impose tariffs to simulate cap and trade, as that document proposes, China will declare it a trade war under another UN entity GATT.
Which means the resolution itself will be rendered entirely moot as the US is a member of GATT, and would be able to opt out via similar means.
Frazzled wrote:
Economic adjustments to counter climate change-you mean millions out of work here, for no environmental benefit? Nuts.
There are already millions out of work. That's why this is being discussed now. Its designed to force job creation into selected industries.
Either way, I actually believe it would be environmentally beneficial, so that's a moot point. I also don't believe that action on the scale being discussed here is remotely possible, so that's also a moot point. That said, I do believe that the adjustments being discussed by the UN will occur, though largely of their own accord. Industry will move to developing nations initially, but since there is little in the way of domestic industry anyway that won't be a problem. As the price of transit rises in concurrence with the price of oil, those same industrial jobs will return. The cost of transporting finished goods will simply exceed the cost of paying workers in developed markets.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 20:53:46
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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I see, so the argument is, because manufacturing is already leaving this isn't an issue?
How would it help the environment, if the manufacturing is done overseas in areas with even less environmental regulation than here? Its still air pollution/global warming/whatever the excuse is.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 21:29:55
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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I'm going to go to walmart right now, spend all the money I have on plasticware and when I get it home, I'm gonna set it on fire, except for the paper labels, which are going straight in the trash. I'm not recycling a damned thing.
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/27 22:59:29
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Battlefield Professional
Empire Of Denver, Urth
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I'm going to turn on all the lights in the house, let the cars run in the driveway and grill something using charcoal(preferably red meat).
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“It is impossible to speak in such a way that you cannot be misunderstood” -- Karl Popper |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 02:56:25
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Battleship Captain
The Land of the Rising Sun
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Come on Frazz, these guys only want one hour of darkness. It could be worse like the nutc... errr advisor to the UK Prime Minister Sir Jonathan Porritt
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article5627634.ece
M.
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Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
About the Clans: "Those brief outbursts of sense can't hold back the wave of sibko bred, over hormoned sociopaths that they crank out though." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 03:07:43
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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My opinion on the global warming is thus. I live in Michigan. Michigan gets REALLY friggin cold. SO if the climate goes up enough Ill be living in the new Florida.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 05:50:33
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Anti-Armour Swiss Guard
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Going to be finishing painting my DH army for a tourney a week later. Won't have time afterwards.
Sanctimonious Hippies can go blow smoke up someone else.
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I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 09:48:25
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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Grovelin' Grot
Sweden
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KingCracker wrote:My opinion on the global warming is thus. I live in Michigan. Michigan gets REALLY friggin cold. SO if the climate goes up enough Ill be living in the new Florida.
Will help and recieve all the refugees from a 150 degree hot desert Florida where you can't no longer live in?
And where did you find all hippies in this?
Anyway,
And for you that don't believe turning lights on and off reduce total energy used & your electricity bill, this simple test with a "Kill-A-Watt" that anyone can preform proves it. The energy used at startup on a normal lightball that this myth is based on isn't big, at all. Well, if you expect to return to the room where you just cut the light within a second, it maybe can be discussed depending on with kind of lightsource you are using.
Myth busted
So turning your electricity stuff down tonight will do something, don't worry.
EDIT: Would be interesting to see a test like this on computers etc to see if it's worth to turn on & off your computer when you are away a couple of hours or just put it in sleep mode or whatever that save energy best....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/03/28 09:49:07
Take it easy... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 10:01:36
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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Stormin' Stompa
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So let me get this straight... They've agreed to burn proportionately less fuel for one hour?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 11:26:45
Subject: Re:Earth Hour 2009
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Fixture of Dakka
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How do the people with no access to electricity vote?
BTW: The power stations will have to work at a higher rate to supply the massive electricity demand spike when all the lights are turned back on at the end of the hour. Thus negating any saving made during the vote.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/03/28 16:59:05
Subject: Earth Hour 2009
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
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I would rather spend the hour stabbing neocons to death and actually helping ensure a future for our species. I see, so the argument is, because manufacturing is already leaving this isn't an issue?
Correct. Its not an issue because no matter what we do we can not compete with the cost efficiency of developing nations. If you want to compete with china you had better be ready to pay your industrial workers sub minimum wage. But you aren't, are you? Because then what's the point of keeping the jobs at all? To compete with the third world we would have to treat our workers like third world workers, and other than being illegal it doesn't actually do much since then your workers don't have enough money to buy what the produce. So yeah. Manufacturing is already gone so it's not an issue. It's not leaving, we have so little of it left that its laughable. We need to reorient our economy towards what we do well, sell ourselves things and develop the worlds technology. We need to invent every new industry, produce its new products here for a few years then abandon the manufacturing in favor of business control and service. It needs to be a cycle, and we need to stop trying to salvage the dead gangrenous leg and focus on finding a new one to stand on.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/03/28 17:07:09
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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