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The title says it all.

Battletech is much more concerned with individual units. Each Mech can take multiple hits (usually: there's a critical system that can, in some circumstances, make 1 hit kills possible) and can act separately for the most part.

I believe the full rules have a lot of add-ons and such. Things like complex campaign rules (for representing salvage of equipment, pilots gaining experience, etc.). Moving up to the army-scale games is easier (Think going from 40k to Epic in that there's a bit less abstraction: The same units exist at different scales, but may use simplified stats and such at bigger game setups to keep things moving.

I know BT supports Hex-map play, and that used to be the default, although miniatures rules exist. I think that's still true, but I might be wrong.

As for setting BT is several notches more 'realistic' than 40k, although still hard to defend, (The larger mecha tend to be a physics nightmare, but then again 40k Titans would be much worse.) There's a lot of human drama as it's various human kingdoms fighting amongst themselves with occasional allies against other threats (such as the Clans, who are also human although extensively selectively bred to be warriors.). Again, i'd say this is a bit more realistic as the nations war based on a range of realistic reasons: slights against each other, diplomatic ties, romace, etc. The alien races (and the Imperial factions) might look very 1 dimensional by comparison as they tend to be one trait taken to extremes (Orks are mindless violence, Tyranids are all-encompassing hunger, Eldar are Angst. Etc...). Even the clans, which have drawn a lot of fire as being the worst part of the BT setting, are relatively deep.

The big plus for 40k is the deep if over-the-top setting and larger than life heroes. Plus painting small but recognizable human figures is sometimes more fun than painting little mechs.

Battletech is good fi you're in the mood for something focused more on ranged combat that at least kind of tries to acknowledge that last century of warfare and want to be able to command some giant war machines with enough weapons to level smaller states.

Also, I feel obligated to mention that Heavy Gear is out there if you feel like a Big Stompy Robots game and aren't set on Battletech. It's a good game, too (and I'm their web guy, so consider this promotion).

It is really a difference in complexity of units.

In Battletech, as has been said, each individual 'Mech, vehicle, or infantry platoon has it's own record sheet. That allows for a pretty personalized force that generally can't be wiped out with a template weapon (because there technically are no template weapons).

Each unit can take a significant amount of punishment, with larger Assault units being able to wade through small units for a few turns before the pack can bring them down. Some very good units can chew the little guys up and go after someone else.

Battletech is actually a lot more simple than most people think, it is really very simple math with a few modifiers to s 2d6 roll. The big book is there to cover all situations, but you really only NEED a few pages of it most of the time.

Another wonderful advantage is the construction system, which lets you build your own units completely from scratch.

A simple difference is that in 40K it is about the army. You will take piles of casualties but still be able to fight with other units. Battletech focuses on a smaller number of units and a bit more tactic strategy because losing units (especially several units) is BAD.

More info on the universe and even FREE Quick Start rules can be found at www.classicbattletech.com.

Enjoy! It is a wonderful universe now celebrating it's 25th year.

40k and Battletech have nothing in common except the fact they are both insanely awesome. 40k is tanks and guns that ends with a sword fight. Battle tech is a handful of mechs battling it out across terrain more like dogfighting jets.

After that, Battletech is 6mm scale compared to 40k's "heroic" 28mm. Makes a big difference in terrain, models, painting, etc, etc.

Is there a more specific question you could ask?

Besides both being Sci Fi and both being relatively popular, there really isn't a lot that is similar between the two.

Universe: They both have very extensive and well developed universes and backgrounds...
1) Battletech is set in the years 2439 (I use this year because it's the year in which the first Battlemech, the Mackie, entered combat) to 3138+ (where the Mechwarrior Dark Age stories have so far gone up to), while 40K is set, well, around the year 40,000 plus or minus a thousand years or two (pretty much starting around the Horus Heresy up to "now", whatever date that might be). You should know that the Battletech universe does progress significantly faster compared to the 40K universe.
2) Battletech has no aliens nor demons, where 40K is full of them.
3) Battletech has much less of a gothic and draconian background and universe compared to 40K, at least from the human background. Though Battletech does range from a very "junkyard" medieval feel to a very clean, polished, and sophisticated "future" feel depending on the time period and the unit involved.
4) And...of course, Battletech has a focus on 'mech combat (20-100 ton humanoid fighting machines piloted by a single human...though there are exceptions in both mass and shape), whereas 40K has a focus on infantry. There are stories in Battletech that focus on infantry and armor units, but that is relatively rare, just as there are stories in 40K about Titan operators and armor units which are relatively rare compared to stories about infantry.

Game:
1) By virtue of both sides getting access to pretty much the same equipment and the game's simultaneous turn sequence, Battletech is a very balanced game, whereas 40K...well...let's just say that there are balance issues with 40K and leave it at that.
2) Battletech started out as a hex based board game, but has since evolved also into a miniature game like 40K. It's up to the individual player preference which style they prefer.
3) Battletech games tend to have fewer units compared to 40K. It's common for Battletech games to consist only of just a handful of units for both sides, whereas 40K tends to require 50+ miniatures (much more for horde style armies) for the standard game. In fact, company level actions in Battletech (12 'mechs or more) tend to be pretty rare and take quite a long time to play. And depending on the players involved, Battletech games may include vehicles, infantry, and aerospace assets, depending on how complex the players want their games to be.
4) Battletech breaks it's rules into levels, with level 1 rules being the simplest and most straight forward and level 3 rules being very detailed and involving more technical aspects, which allows, again, for the players to determine the complexity of their games. 40K has one rule set and few optional rules, which can be good for players meeting for random pick up games.
5) Battletech does include record keeping, to keep track of the damage, ammunition, and heat levels of your units, while 40K has very little record keeping.
6) Battletech has more of an RPG style feel, especially if you are playing in a campaign, as there are rules that allow your pilots to increase their skills over time, whereas 40K tends to be played as on-off games. Moreover, Battletech campaigns allow for players to carry over 'mech damage and other statuses from one game to the next, which can give the games a lot more continuity.

Miniatures:
1) My opinion is that 40K has better quality miniatures compared to Battletech...but GW has much larger resources than Iron Wind Metal has, as well.
2) Battletech miniatures are a much smaller scale (6mm) than 40K's 28mm scale, which actually makes them easier to paint and faster to get to table top standard. But this also makes 40K miniatures a better canvas for modelers who wish to really pull off beautiful paint jobs. I'm not saying that you can't do a great job painting Battletech miniatures...I'm just saying that there are more details that you can pick out due to 40K's larger scale.

So if I got this right Battletech is more in depth than 40k. Also what would be a good way to start it (I like the clans).
Thanks!

Buy the Intro Box Set. It will get you playing the game to a reasonable level. Always start with Inner Sphere tech. Much easier that way, especially 3025/3039 tech. Clans are fun, but learn the basics first.

Buy Total Warfare (all the rules you NEED).

Wait until later in the year when the Clan Box Set comes out. It is designed to be an add-on to the Intro Box to get you into Clan vs. Inner Sphere fighting.

Both Box Sets also com with minis, so you will have 24 Inner Sphere 'Mechs, 15 Clan 'Mechs, and first units of Battle Armor. All you need for a good time!

BattleTech is a game written by people who care about making a good game.

40K is a game written by people who care about selling models.

And it shows in the 'classic' robot jox look of the battletech minis.

If you want a good Mecha game... play Heavy Gear.

Achilles wrote:And it shows in the 'classic' robot jox look of the battletech minis.

If you want a good Mecha game... play Heavy Gear.

I can't describe how heavily I am mocking you right now.

Battletech is THE gold standard of small scale mecha combat games. When you have a game that is 25 years old now and had ONE major rules update, you are doing pretty darn well for yourself.

We also have suspender-wearing men with Jerry Garcia beards behind us. We cannot fail.

Game:
1) By virtue of both sides getting access to pretty much the same equipment and the game's simultaneous turn sequence, Battletech is a very balanced game, whereas 40K...well...let's just say that there are balance issues with 40K and leave it at that.
I couldn't agree more! cough...Eldar...cough

dragonfire wrote:By virtue of both sides getting access to pretty much the same equipment and the game's simultaneous turn sequence, Battletech is a very balanced game...

Unless you're playing Clans vs. Inner Sphere circa 3050. That can be a little unbalanced.

One more question what mechs are in the starter set?

Commando
Spider
Jenner
Panther
Assassin
Cicada
Clint
Hermes II
Whitworth
Vindicator
Enforcer
Hunchback
Trebuchet
Dervish
Dragon
Quickdraw
Catapult
JagerMech
Grasshopper
Awesome
Zeus
Cyclops
Banshee
Atlas

Mattlov wrote:

Achilles wrote:And it shows in the 'classic' robot jox look of the battletech minis.

If you want a good Mecha game... play Heavy Gear.

I can't describe how heavily I am mocking you right now.

Battletech is THE gold standard of small scale mecha combat games. When you have a game that is 25 years old now and had ONE major rules update, you are doing pretty darn well for yourself.

We also have suspender-wearing men with Jerry Garcia beards behind us. We cannot fail.

Sorry... that's my personal bias. I should have posted like this...

Play Heavy Gear if you want a good miniature game.

Play CBT if you want to play a good miniature game.

Both BT and Heavy Gear can be fun games. They're very different takes on the 'Big Stompy Robot' mecha genre.

Arguing which is better is (of course) subjective and unlikely to get us anywhere.



Mattlov, you don't count any of the 4 editions or the crapload of spin-offs as major rules updates? I know the rules discussion I've seen is different from whatever edition I have hidden away somewhere.

To add Heavy Gear Blitz! to my comparison above:

HGB is based around small squads of mecha smaller than Battletech mecha (If they were built life-size: I think the actual minis are pretty close) called Gears. They aren't quite "Kings of the Battlefield" but are more single-pilot infantry fighting vehicles or giant infantrymen. Tanks are a serious threat to them and the high-end hover tanks in the setting required 'wolf pack' tactics: Gears would have to work in Squads to take down a target that is more heavily armed and armored, but not as flexible.

The current rules are meant to be somewhat 'game like' to keep the game moving in comparison to the previous edition which had a massive amount of options. Gears are kind of like 3 wound Warhammer 40k minis in some ways, but the damage system makes instant-kills very common. Getting hit with a anti-tank-missile can ruin someone's day. The system takes into account speed, maneuverability, and cover to determine hits with an opposed roll: Each attack requires an attack roll and the defender gets a damage roll, but that's generally it for the attack as the two rolls also determine damage if successful.

HGB is played on a tabletop and does not use hexes. The miniatures are 1/144 scale (Close to model railroad n-scale) and record keeping is minimized: Each Gear is tracked on a single card and there's some game-aids to handle record keeping: special dice to note movement speeds and mode and tokens for damage.

Big pluses for Heavy Gear include some great minis and a very deep story: the Heavy Gear Story is focused on an abandoned Earth colony of Terra Nova that has recently repulsed the first attempt by Earth and is preparing for the second wave while the Terra Novan factions fight amongst themselves.

It's a good game, but I accept that it's not to everyone's taste.... All of which could be said for Battletech as well.

The only thing 40K has over Btech is that on the table the seer number of figures can be in some cases (well painted thematic armies) very very impressive. For everything else Btech tops 40K.

M.

Wait.... The starter set has 24 mechs!?!

Looks like it does.

So if I got this right Battletech is more in depth than 40k. Also what would be a good way to start it (I like the clans).
-dragonfire

Well, I didn't say that. They are both pretty "in depth" considering that they are both over 20 years old and have a lot of background published for them. They just have a different feel from each other...and there's no reason why you cannot like both.

As Mattlov has said, a good way to start is to buy the Introductory Box Set. And yes, it comes with 24 'mechs. Total Warfare, IMHO, is a good purchase, along with the Starterbook: Sword and Dragon. That book gives a good background for two Inner Sphere units, the Mckinnon's Raiders and Sorenson's Sabres, and rules for a campaign involving the two units. Best of all, to use the Starterbook, all you really need is the Introductory Box Set (though you will have to proxy a few 'mechs, but all the rules are there).

I agree with Mattlov that playing Inner Sphere units first will give you a good handle on the game, as the Clan rules and Clan technology are built on Inner Sphere rules and technology. Also, as Ghaz as pointed out, it is true that Clans vs Inner Sphere games can be unbalanced.

If you are interested in some information for the Introductory Box Set, go here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208138.page to read my post examining the use of Heroscape Tiles for use in Battletech games. In the thread somewhere, I give a mini-review of the Introductory Box Set, and all the minis shown are figures I painted myself from the Introductory Box Set, if you want a feel about the quality of the minis.

As for Heavy Gear...I don't play the miniatures game, so I have no input. Though I did enjoy the PC game that came out a while ago, which introduced me to the universe.

Balance: The release of "Editions" were usually box content changes. The RULES contained inside STILL have not significantly changed. Most of the editions added weapons that weren't ini the previous editions, or were more along the lines of errata'ed and clarified editions.

The base rulesare really no different since it took the name of Battletech. It is really nice in that way. If you want to play the most basic of game (3025 tech, 'Mechs only), you could use the rules from 1st edition and have less than a page of difference between them and Total Warfare.

Spin-off games and add ons are new rule editions, just expansions. It would be like saying Space Hulk is a 40K ruleset.

But yes, both games have their points. Even CAV wasn't completely horrible in terms of Mecha combat, but I haven't tried CAV 2.0.

Another important point: Battletech DOESN'T NEED MINIATURES AT ALL if you don't want to spend money. It is at it's base a strategic board game on a hex grid. A piece of paper identifiying a unit and which way it is facing is technically all you need. But the Starter Box is a damn good deal. But even I (as an official demonstrator) will admit the plastic 'Mechs are below industry standards for good plastic figs. Usuable and paintable, but not the best. Better than the vinyl crap from 3rd Edition, though...

Well I got the starter box.

Here's a question what mechs would form a good lance from the box?

dragonfire wrote:Here's a question what mechs would form a good lance from the box?

Depends on what you want to do. A good general lance would be:

Commando
Enforcer
Dervish
Grasshopper

Gives you the ability to move, some missile support and a couple of good combatants.

Needs a REALLY annoying force to throw at someone?

Jenner
Spider
Clint
JagerMech

The little guys swarm around the target while the Jager just keeps plinking away.

There are tons of good combos in the box set. Your most solid units are probably the Grasshopper and Enforcer, and the best support unit is the Catapult. This is all speaking of 3025 tech, upgrades makes MANY things good, even the Banshee!

Biggest difference is that there is less whinning in Battletech than 40k ^_~ (Not that there isn't whinning...Just less of it)

What about the Atlas, the Zeus, and the Awesome in the starter set? What are they good for?

What about the Commando, Enforcer, Catapult and Zeus?

Yes! Tell us more about these mechs!

The Atlas is a big bruiser. Nothing in the box can take as much punishment as it can. In the intro box you get the original Atlas, the one that stalks slowly into range and then starts ripping things apart. It has an AC/20, which can fell many of the lighter 'Mechs in the box with a single hit, a few medium lasers to add extra damage, and a short-ranged missile pack to capatalise on the holes the other weapons open in the enemy's armour. It single long range weapon is an LRM-20. It cannot be used at the same range of its other guns, but is there so that the Atlas has something to do while it closes into range. The Atlas is also fantastic at physical attacks, doing 10 points of damage with each fist, or 20 in a single hit if you kick someone. Other things can out run then and get around behind them (which is where its rear mounted lasers come into play), but it's a really tough thing to bring down.

The Zeus is a Sniper 'Mech. The box version I believe is the LRM15, Large Laser & Autocannon/5 version. That's not a lot of firepower, but there is an alternate version that swaps that AC/5 for a PPC. The Zeus can handle itself up close, but it wants to be far away causing light and accurate damage from afar.

The Awesome... well... the Awesome is awesome. There's no other way to put it. 3 PPCs. Aside from the token Small Laser that's all it has. It has the heat sinks to fire them in a 3/2/3/2 pattern (so you fire all three one turn, then two the next turn as you cool down, then three again, and so on). Light 'Mechs should run away, Medium 'Mechs should think very carefully before approaching, Heavy 'Mechs will be in trouble once they close range and Assault 'Mechs will find a lot of their armour stripped away by the power of this thing. The Awesome is one of the best 'energy only' support 'Mechs there is, and it only got better with age (there is a latter version with 4 PPCs and double heat sinks for extra-Awesome fire!).

The Commando is a fun little thing. It's overarmed for its size, mounting two sizable short-ranged missile bays and a standard laser, and that means it gives up armour. Still, the Commando is a great 'firepower' 'Mech to have in small battles. If anything bigger than a Large Laser comes a'knocking they're in trouble, but as long as you never stop moving and use it to flank the enemy for rear shots or shots on weakened armour (where those SRM launchers will come in handy) it should do well.

The Enforcer is a wonderful 'Mech. Jump Jets, a Large Laser and an AC/10. Good consistent firepower, manoeuvrable, dangerous. It can't fight Heavy and Assault 'Mechs on its own (that said it could take a Dragon or JagerMech on by itself without much trouble IMO), but it's a great 'trooper' 'Mech to have in a Lance. The only downside is it only has 10 shots for its AC/10. Later versions can swap out the AC/10 for an LB-10X, which nets you an extra ton, just enough to add a second ton of ammo.

dragonfire wrote:What about the Commando, Enforcer, Catapult and Zeus?

HBMC covered the other three, I will tell you the joy of the Catapult.

Heavy weight at 65 tons, it really has everything. It can Jump, which is great. For weapons, it has a pair of LRM 15 launchers, which is great support fire. The only problem is it only has 16 total shots, or 8 per launcher.

Fortunately, it backs the LRMs up with 4 Medium lasers. The gold standard of Battletech, 4 medium lasers is GOOD. Unlike many other designs, it has sufficient heat sinks to keep moving and firing at a high rate without overheating.

Is has average armor for it's tonnage, which isn't bad. The Catapult is a great all around design. Only the lack of punching hands keeps it from being truly awesome.