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I just saw this thread today; I must just keep missing it.

A Quick History of BattleTech

First there was BattleDroids
Lukas sent over some Lawyers with an S&D

BattleTech was born
Harmony Gold sent over some lawyers with an S&D
FASA goes, how about a percentage
Harmony Gold says ok.

Times were good

Then during the great 2nd edition era of Gaming the Clans arrived to make more money.

Things were so-so.

Then the Clans were redefined so there could be fair fights once more

Times were good once more

Harmony Gold saw the money and said you made too much money off is here is another S&D.

FASA gave in and had a bunch of the Mechs go and hid until the plastic surgery was done.

FASA Screwed the Pooch on a Book Deal and died.

WizKids Picked up the ball with there Clicky Cash

MechWarrior was released

Everyone went WFT?

WizKids tried to fix it, but could not get the Clicky-Tech Monkey off there back.

Catalyst went “We have been writing your books, can we have it?

WizKids went “Sure”

The world now is in balance once more?



As for the UrbanMech, I made one call the UM-40k
Replace the AC/10, Small Laser and the one Heat Sink for;
Double Heat Sinks, a ERSL and a MRM-40

I'm mostly a fan of energy based mechs.

Spider, Cicada, Grasshopper, Awesome (one from each weight category)

The UrbanMech is fine for it's purpose... namely, fighting in urban terrain. Everywhere else, with the possible exception of a tropical rain forest, it SUCKS!

Too slow to maneuver, too light firepower to kill stuff quickly, too lightly armored to survive being in LOS for too long.

(Having said that, there's nothing like jumping a whole lance of them over a building and behind an assault 'Mech and ripping its real armor up... then jumping back the next turn before it gets to shoot back!)


Catalyst... would be okay, except they gave the WoBies the supernatural ability to ignore all the established history of the BT universe. I mean, really? They came up with a huge fleet - not just bigger than anyone elses, but bigger than everyone elses... out of nowhere. And then they start raining nukes on everything they don't like. Seriously? that, if I want to deal with that sort of apocalyptic plot, I'll play 40K.

Vulcan wrote:The UrbanMech is fine for it's purpose...

That's why I have 35 of them.

Catalyst... would be okay, except they gave the WoBies the supernatural ability to ignore all the established history of the BT universe. I mean, really? They came up with a huge fleet - not just bigger than anyone elses, but bigger than everyone elses... out of nowhere. And then they start raining nukes on everything they don't like. Seriously? that, if I want to deal with that sort of apocalyptic plot, I'll play 40K.

Not supernatural, they actually explain it pretty well.

Word of Blake has access to the following:

Star League Era Production Facilities - Especially important is that they have access to locations that they have SPECIFICALLY eliminated from everyone else' archives.

Star League records on locations of mothballed ships. Again, these were deleted CENTURIES ago from even ComStar records just for this purpose.

A very small number of planets to defend.

No one really paying attention to what they are doing, because they are simply seen as some religious fanatics. Fanatics that have a small power base compared to other factions.

Large recruiting base with the Chaos March/Blake Protectorate. They have plenty of people who are willing to sign up, or be drafted.

Crap tons of money. Seriously. all the HPG profits from 2 Successor States and most of the Periphery powers, plus money stolen from other agencies and and the Free Worlds League.

The key thing to remember is that there have been plans for the Jihad or Jihad-like since Stefan Amaris was removed from power, before Kerensky's Exodus. They just adapted that situation to add in the Clans once they showed up.

Anpu42 wrote:A Quick & Wildly Inaccurate History of BattleTech

Fixed it for you.

Anpu42 wrote:FASA Screwed the Pooch on a Book Deal and died.

FASA chose to close it doors. It did not 'die'. Ral Partha, that had become like a symbiotic life form, they did die from FASA's end.

Anpu42 wrote:Catalyst went “We have been writing your books, can we have it?

WizKids went “Sure”

Also no.

It has been a while and I was a little fuzzy on some things.
I have been playing BattleDroids from the start, but have not played for almost 5-6 years.
Though this has made want to get back into it.

I also own a coppy of the original Crunky Frog CritterTech, and the the updated one.

Okay... Coming soon to Dakka will be panited mini's and the Merc campain I'm putting my friends through.
It's in 3025 I'll start a new thread for it when it starts!

dragonfire wrote:Okay... Coming soon to Dakka will be panited mini's and the Merc campain I'm putting my friends through.
It's in 3025 I'll start a new thread for it when it starts!

Please do, those kind of things are always interesting!

OH!!!! 3025. awesome.

Mattlov wrote:

Vulcan wrote:The UrbanMech is fine for it's purpose...

That's why I have 35 of them.

That'll work...

Catalyst... would be okay, except they gave the WoBies the supernatural ability to ignore all the established history of the BT universe. I mean, really? They came up with a huge fleet - not just bigger than anyone elses, but bigger than everyone elses... out of nowhere. And then they start raining nukes on everything they don't like. Seriously? that, if I want to deal with that sort of apocalyptic plot, I'll play 40K.

Not supernatural, they actually explain it pretty well.

Word of Blake has access to the following:

Star League Era Production Facilities - Especially important is that they have access to locations that they have SPECIFICALLY eliminated from everyone else' archives.

Bull. Tell me how ComStar managed to just loose those facilities, and never bothered to check up on them?

Star League records on locations of mothballed ships. Again, these were deleted CENTURIES ago from even ComStar records just for this purpose.

Double bull. You don't just loose that many ships. Someone will go looking.

It would be like the CIA raiding the Air Force's Boneyard and the Naval Reserve fleet... and expecting that no one would notice the empty spots in the yards. Or worse, the Cubans doing it...

Okay, one could argue that ComStar scattered the ships all over known space one at a time... except that would be an exceptionally stupid way to go about storing very powerful units that you might want someday. There's plenty of room around Mars and Jupiter - not to mention the potential for bases in the asteroid belts - to put them where they can be checked on regularly.

A very small number of planets to defend.

No one really paying attention to what they are doing, because they are simply seen as some religious fanatics. Fanatics that have a small power base compared to other factions.

Large recruiting base with the Chaos March/Blake Protectorate. They have plenty of people who are willing to sign up, or be drafted.

Crap tons of money. Seriously. all the HPG profits from 2 Successor States and most of the Periphery powers, plus money stolen from other agencies and and the Free Worlds League.

The key thing to remember is that there have been plans for the Jihad or Jihad-like since Stefan Amaris was removed from power, before Kerensky's Exodus. They just adapted that situation to add in the Clans once they showed up.

So... these loonies supported Amaris? Is that their alibi for this garbage? And the Jihadists think they could have hidden this from Jerome Blake and (more importantly) Aleksandr Kerensky exactly how?

Sloppy writing all 'round, in my opinion.

Alright, quote too big. Let's try to address this:

ComStar didn't LOSE the facilities, they were always only known to a very selcet group of people. Some record deletion, a couple "accidents," and soon the only people who know about them or have any info on them are people trying to conceal that information. Makes it easier to hide something if no one knows it is missing.

You can lose that many ships. Space is BIG. Very, very big. Even if you know the solar system to look in, it will take decades to scour the whole area and find something even the size of a WarShip. It is pretty easy to hide something in space.

Even the biggest Battletech WarShip is under 2 kilometers long. Most are MUCH smaller. They are put in total hibernation: No power systems running, running lights off, everything. It is simply a chunk in space. And compared to the area of a solar system, and tiny, minuscule, nigh-undetectable chunk. That's the point of HIDING it.

Try this experiment: Take a Ball Bearing out in your backyard. Spray the BB black. Now have someone throw it somewhere in your backyard while you aren't looking. Sure, you know it is somewhere out there. Good luck finding it.

Last point: Read more carefully. They did not support Amaris. The PLANS for an action such as this were simply laid down as early as Conrad Toyama, the second Primus of ComStar. Remember the long-term goal of old ComStar and the Word of Blake is for technology to end up OUT of everyone's hands but their own, so they can be mankind's saviors. The "Transfers" as they call them are designed to keep this long-term goal on track.

WoB only unleashed the plan because the Second Star League failed. That was NOT part of the plan, since they were setting themselves up to gain a position of power in the League. The Jihad is an accelerated plan to destabilize the Inner Sphere so they can take over. It simply hasn't gone quite to plan. Their initial attacks had them disguised as other units to get the Great Houses to attack each other and eliminate ComStar. It ALMOST worked, but a few agencies saw through the subterfuge, and the real gak storm hit the fan when they released the Manei Domini (Cybernetically enhanced fanatics) around the Inner Sphere and Invading Clans. Nuclear weapons were used as a force multiplier. Quite simply, even with the Word's build-up, they were not an overwhelmingly large force. Add in a couple nukes thrown around on a few battlefields, some virus-bombings, and a breakdown of interstellar communications, that is a HELL of a force multiplier and equalizer.

Any more things you need answered?

And the Jihad is a temper tantrum anyway. The Wobbies wanted to wipe out the Clans, not the Great Houses. They only attacked the Great Houses when, as Mattlov said, when the Second Star League failed.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And the Jihad is a temper tantrum anyway. The Wobbies wanted to wipe out the Clans, not the Great Houses. They only attacked the Great Houses when, as Mattlov said, when the Second Star League failed.

Hell of a tantrum, though.

Mattlov wrote:<Snipped for brevity>

Any more things you need answered?

Yeah. Given the already dramatic state of the BT universe during the time of the second Star League, why was any of this necessary?

Simple. While it was dramatic, the universe had kind of played itself into a corner.

The Star League meant everyone was reasonably at peace.

The Clans had been mostly stopped with the Great Refusal.

There wasn't much else to do. It was a sort of "reset button" for the universe, to give it more places to go and create new story lines. Also, after the Jihad is about 60 years of relative peace, so they can move away from the same characters we have seen for 15 to 20 years, and get some new blood working.

Mattlov wrote:Simple. While it was dramatic, the universe had kind of played itself into a corner.

The Star League meant everyone was reasonably at peace.

Aside from Katrina Steiner sending an assassin to kill Omi Kurita - cassus belli if ever there was one - and Sun-Tzu Liao using his temporary position as First Lord to reconquer the St. Ives Compact. Not to mention the ComStar/WoB conflict...

The Clans had been mostly stopped with the Great Refusal.

Except for Clan Wolf, who abstained in the vote to agree to the 'victory conditions' of the Great Refusal... and won (well, drew) the right not to be bound by it in the actual trial, so they were due to go go to war again in 3070. And somehow I doubt the other Crusaders would have just stood by on the sidelines and let them go for Terra alone.

There wasn't much else to do. It was a sort of "reset button" for the universe, to give it more places to go and create new story lines. Also, after the Jihad is about 60 years of relative peace, so they can move away from the same characters we have seen for 15 to 20 years, and get some new blood working.

By bringing in a total ringer and overturning centuries of history of 'formalized' warfare to bring back scorched earth policies?

The only way the Jihad ends is a) the Jihadists WMD everyone else back into the stone age, or b) everyone else WMD's the Jihadists and the whole Free Worlds League back into the stone age.

That's the way WMD warfare works. It's all or nothing, because you can't risk the other guy surviving to hit back.

The Jihad ends when everyone bands together to defeat them.

Vulcan wrote: Snip and such...

Katherine killing Omi was resolved at the end of the FedCom Civil War.

The Confederation retaking St. Ives happened before the FedCom Civil War. By the time the Jihad began, that conflict was already done for more than 6 years.

ComStar/Word conflict is pretty low-key Special Agent things more thna open conflict. ComStar is more concerned with the Clans, and WoB is more concerned with themselves and hiding everything they are doing.

One Clan not held to the Trial of Refusal is not going to be a threat. See: Smoke Jaguars. THe only reason the Wolves would be dangerous is the awful capabilities of AUTHOR FIAT.

Scorched earth simply doesn't work on an interstellar scale. You can't have enough nuclear weapons and WMDs to eliminate everything off thousands of planets AND everything in space.

Mattlov, almost, the first starleague war clearly demonstraits that scorched earth is posible because of the tech loss and near eradicartion of most factories during the conflict, it took 300 years to get back most of the tech lost and will take another 100 at least to reach par. alot of planets were economically ruined. so maybe you cant do it with nukes but you sure as hell can do it again with a large enough war where both sides go after not just mechs but production of food and essential materials.

Hawkins wrote:Mattlov, almost, the first starleague war clearly demonstraits that scorched earth is posible because of the tech loss and near eradicartion of most factories during the conflict, it took 300 years to get back most of the tech lost and will take another 100 at least to reach par. alot of planets were economically ruined. so maybe you cant do it with nukes but you sure as hell can do it again with a large enough war where both sides go after not just mechs but production of food and essential materials.

Ah, but the big difference with the 1st Succession War is that everybody (at least at the start) all still had crap tons of WarShips. Those are a BIG multiplier when factoring in the amount of damage you can do to another planet.

Also, the tech lost and NOT being regained was ComStar was ACTIVELY keeping people from discovering data that would let the tech renaissance occur. For the Helm Core (the big find that spurred the rebirth of tech) they had agents actively attempting to destroy it and kill the Grey Death Legion. After it got out, they sent a full Battalion of ComGuards to New Avalon to level the NAIS to keep it from spreading.

Imagine what they did to the other people who found Lostech plans and data.

Vulcan wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

Vulcan wrote:The UrbanMech is fine for it's purpose...

That's why I have 35 of them.

Hmm. Best Urbanmech mod I have seen is to remove the legs add tracks and an ICE engine and call it a Po.
Sure it weighs a bit more but it has a bit of mobility, you want cheap Ac10, cut the crap and get cheap.

Orlanth wrote:

Vulcan wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

Vulcan wrote:The UrbanMech is fine for it's purpose...

That's why I have 35 of them.

Hmm. Best Urbanmech mod I have seen is to remove the legs add tracks and an ICE engine and call it a Po.
Sure it weighs a bit more but it has a bit of mobility, you want cheap Ac10, cut the crap and get cheap.

But the Po can't jump, hide on top of buildings, or DFA a poor slob who gets too close. Also, it dies a lot easier.

The Charger that is another over looked Mech
I had one in a MW:RPG.
I had the Players on a Traing exosize in the Desert then the planet was jumped, they had to go and steal some Mechs form and enemy camp.
One character was a young Noble that was in the group ended up with a Charger. the next tree sessions was him complaing about the 5 SLs, then followed with everone else saying "whats its name?"
The 3rd sesion he ended up 7 Hexes from a Wasp and he finaly charged and hit.
He still wanted a better mech, but he stoped bad mouthing it.

Mattlov wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Hmm. Best Urbanmech mod I have seen is to remove the legs add tracks and an ICE engine and call it a Po.
Sure it weighs a bit more but it has a bit of mobility, you want cheap Ac10, cut the crap and get cheap.

But the Po can't jump, hide on top of buildings, or DFA a poor slob who gets too close. Also, it dies a lot easier.

Mattlov my Jade Falcon trothkin*, where do you get the idea that you can always jump atop a building with a 30ton mech. DFA is also very risky outside the novels. Go for it if your name is Aidan Pryde otherwise just shoot.
Sure tanks are inferior, and are supposed to be but a Po is real bargain basement cheap, the urbie has a base cost just for being a mech, if you wish to pay that cost might as well make something useful like a Panther. The Panther is the closest thing to an urbie, small engine single big gun and jump jets the difference being the Panther is a good mech rain or shine. C-Bill cost is also competetive.

Really its all about the C-Bills when it comes to the Urbanmech, it has no other advantage. So if you insist on not paying the extra for a Panther why not go the whole hog and take a tank or two instead.


* A wild assumption that your Mattlov name is Battletech related.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Anpu42 wrote:The Charger that is another over looked Mech
I had one in a MW:RPG.
I had the Players on a Traing exosize in the Desert then the planet was jumped, they had to go and steal some Mechs form and enemy camp.
One character was a young Noble that was in the group ended up with a Charger. the next tree sessions was him complaing about the 5 SLs, then followed with everone else saying "whats its name?"
The 3rd sesion he ended up 7 Hexes from a Wasp and he finaly charged and hit.
He still wanted a better mech, but he stoped bad mouthing it.

Charger does what it says it does, it has no other choice.

Frankly I would have stripped the guns from the Charger entirely and given it a hatchet and/or more armour. The 3050 rebuild is also a good mech.

Orlanth wrote: Snippity snip and such...

* A wild assumption that your Mattlov name is Battletech related.

True, a Panther is a better Urbie, but it lacks Urbie STYLE. But I also like the Panther. I have at least 6 of them.

As for the Callsign, it was actually the name of my first Mechwarrior RPG name. Oddly enough, Ramon Alexi Mattlov. Imagine my surprise when I read the Jade Phoenix Trilogy!

Wait...Urbies have style? They are just walking trash cans...Didn't you know that house Liao recruits urbanmech pilots solely from Sanitation Engineers?

I suppose my biggest problem with the Jihad plotline was that it ran counter to literally everything written before it in BT fluff/novels.

All the way back to the first couple novel series (the ones detailing the origin of the Grey Death Legion and the Warrior:... series), things in the Inner Sphere were steadily moving in a positive direction. Sure, there were some setbacks, but things generally moved positively.

Now here comes Jihad, and it's the First Sucession War all over again - plus all the best of the best got gacked worse than Natasha Kerensky getting 'author fiat'd' by that solahma wench Joanna. If the I am Jade Falcon maneuver actually worked, Death From Above would do a BOATLOAD more damage.... and it doesn't.

I guess the Jihad just isn't my thing, I suppose.

skyth wrote:Wait...Urbies have style? They are just walking trash cans...Didn't you know that house Liao recruits urbanmech pilots solely from Sanitation Engineers?

We think of them as R2 with a 10 Gauge

Vulcan wrote:I suppose my biggest problem with the Jihad plotline was that it ran counter to literally everything written before it in BT fluff/novels.

All the way back to the first couple novel series (the ones detailing the origin of the Grey Death Legion and the Warrior:... series), things in the Inner Sphere were steadily moving in a positive direction. Sure, there were some setbacks, but things generally moved positively.

Now here comes Jihad, and it's the First Sucession War all over again - plus all the best of the best got gacked worse than Natasha Kerensky getting 'author fiat'd' by that solahma wench Joanna. If the I am Jade Falcon maneuver actually worked, Death From Above would do a BOATLOAD more damage.... and it doesn't.

I guess the Jihad just isn't my thing, I suppose.

It's OK, and we Battletech people hear it a lot. Which is why there is so much story out there, you don't HAVE to touch the Jihad.

But to your point, everything getting better and leading to general good times doesn't make a good game. I know I wouldn't play PEACETECH.

man i was going through storage today and i found a folder with some old Virtual World simulator printouts. that'll take you back.