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Ok, I was going to write up three different batreps as I enlisted all of my gaming group to throw the hardest of the hard at me so i can hammer down my IG list.

I got a game against a tourney demon army, a tuned lash list, and two games against horde orks. I've also seen space marines earlier this week, which has a batrep up for it already.

First off the demons.

This one is gonna be pretty short. I've played a lot of 40k since it happened, and it was a pretty short game anyway.

My list versus demons

CCS 4x melta chimera

9 psykers chimera

10 psykers chimera

vets 3x melta chimera

vets 3x melta chimera

vets 3x melta chimera

banewolf with heavy flamer

executioner with plasma

executioner with plasma

3x hydras


demons

bloodthirster

bloodthirster

5x bloodcrushers

5x bloodcrushers

8x bloodletters

8x bloodletters

8x bloodletters

demon prince

soul grinder

soul grinder


There are upgrades in all of those units, but I don't know them.

I deployed like this for a 4 objective seize



I moved like this on top of 1



He lands like this...



He shoots and immobilizes my banewolf.

I shoot. Killing the bloodthirster and the demon prince. Also immobilizing the soul grinder.

He moves up, I move back, bloodcrushers show up on far side of picture.



I shoot and kill the bloodcrusher unit. His bloodletters are just out of charge range.

Camera goes away here. My opponent hated the deep strike choices he made, and he felt the end was near.

Next bloodletter and bloodcrushers show up. Some stuff charges, i lose a couple chimeras. I kill the new bloodcrusher unit off with shooting, and barely get the last wound on the bloodthirster with bring it down.

I lose a couple other things and start killing off bloodletters, I was concentrating on shooting and totally mispalying the movement phase. Soul grinder comes in with a 6" fleet roll and a charge to block my objective, while his late arriving letters score the back objective, but the game doesn't end and i accept his concession.

I'm going to move on to the next batrep, more can be said about this game. Somnicide was my opponent and he was totally over conservative and didn't have time to rack them up for another game. He might swing by to add his thoughts. He got tabled, but likely wouldn't have had he been much more aggressive. I agree, but I felt good about the matchup.




Next game lash.

No edits to my list yet....

my opponents list


lash prince

lash prince

5 chosen 5x meltas rhino

5 chosen 5x meltas rhino

5 plaguemarines 2x plasma

5 plague marines 2x plasma

5 plague marines 2x plasma rhino

5 plague marines 2x plasma rhino

2x oblits

2x oblits

2x oblits



We get a three objective seize with pitched deployment.

Table looks like this...



Our deployment looks like this



I basically drive forward towards the furthest objective but get my lead chimera wrecked by plasma. I kill off his rhinos with hyrdas, and just pick away at plaguemarines.

The game within a game here was the duel between oblits and executioners. I tried my best to keep them protected from short range multi-melta. I did damn well but there was one spot that was highly risky but possible for them. One unit mishapped back into reserve, one unit scattered out of multi-melta range, but the third time was the charm. Unfortunately for him, that unit decided to only get two crew stunned results. Each obliterator was unceremoniously owned off the table the turn after they landed.

The chosen chugged on from the table edge, one unit only manged a single pen with some bad rolls, I put it on the closest hydra and it blew up, taking the other chosen unit out of range. For the rest of the game, the chosen was just slipping around killing off my heavy support. This would haunt me later.

The princes were neutered. One guy managed to lash a CCS all over the table, but not anywhere wherre anyone else could charge or shoot at them. As the lash princes deep struck in, the hydras and executioners and multi-lasers took them out. Not really a factor.

Game about to end... or is it?



So turn 5 we are tied on objectives as I couldn't budge one of his plaguemarine units in cover. But i had a massive VP lead. And the game continued.

Turn 6 I have him 2 objectives to none. But the game continued.

Turn 7, I ahve to evacuate my own objective because the chosen are guarnteed to block it. A 3 man plague marine unit comes in and sets up to charge my vets that are in a chimera that is sitting on an objective. Another vet unit runs full speed for the furthest objective, and needs a 6" run. Move, move, move fails on a 9. The chosen miraculously pop the chimera sitting on the middle objective with a 11.5" melta shot, my vets fall out and are pistoled and charged by plague marines. No one has any objectives.

My VP lead evaporated thanks to the unchecked chosen unit in my backfield popping my entire heavy support slot. We end up being within 75 VPs of eachother, and he claws his way into a tie.

I didn't love my deployment, My scoring chimeras should have lead the way rather than my CCS which ended up traffic jamming my advance. And I made a list tweak. I still feel really good about that matchup in the future, even though I ended up giving up a surprise tie.


And the last game there are no pics for. Its really three games with two quick concessions. This is the batrep of note.

My tweaked and nwow locked in list

CCS 4x melta chimera with heavy flamer

CCS 4x melta chimera with heavy flamer

9 psykers chimera with heavy flamer

9 psykers chimera with heavy flamer

vets 3x meltas chimera with heavy flamer

vets 3x meltas chimera with heavy flamer

vets 3x meltas chimera with heavy flamer

executioner with plasma

executioner with plasma

3x hydras

My opponent was fielding my 2008 GT ork list, with a minor tweak to add 2 deffkoptas with TL rokkits and buzzsaws.


KFF

KFF

2x15 lootas

3x30 shoota boys

deffkopta tl rokkits buzzsaw

deffkopta tl rokkits buzzsaw

3x3 kans with skorchas


We roll a three objective seize, I win the roll and ask for first turn.

The short version. 5 lootas dead, weaken resolve -8. 5 Lootas dead, weaken resolve -8.

That was game one. We both wanted to see if I could do that again so we just racked them up really quick and was a lot more careful with the loota spread

5 lootas dead weaken resolve -8, 5 lootas dead weaken resolve -8.

He wasn't interested in playing a loota based list again.

Before you all jump on him, I wouldn't have wanted to play it either. he came over at my request to help me test my no holds barred not fun to play against IG list. And we both knew that if i could take his lootas out on the top of turn 1. Then the game was headed for a tabling.

So we knocked together an alt list to try

KFF

KFF

3x30 boys

2x1 deff dread with 2 CC

3x1 deeffkoptas with TL rokkits and buzzsaws.

3x3 kans with skorchas




Here is the real quick and dirty. I shot everything I had at a boy unit with a KFF to try and get it to 10. I couldn't pull it off so with my last psyker unit i soulstormed it down to about 8 models.

He moved and ran. his KFF transferred to a new mob.

I tried the same thing on the other KFF unit and got it down to 12 so couldn't weaken resolve, I got a 25% test on the little unit and weaken resolved it out of the game.

He moved and blew a multi-laser off one chimera and ran with the kans and dreads. He crew shook one hydra with a deffkopta, and killed a CCS chimera with another.

I move up with all chimeras, I lay out some heavy flamers and some multi-lasers into the boys, the smallish unit with the KFF goes to ground, and I am unable to do the 4 wounds I need to weaken resolve it (he was gaffing wounds wisely onto the nob and KFF mek) I kill about half of his kans and dreads with melta.

He kills both psyker chimeras, and exactly half the psykers from each unit die off from the explosions, he immobilizes a leman russ, and crew shakes another one.

I kill every kan, except i missed one deff dread and one kan with no DCCW. I am able to use heavy flamers and hydras to shrink the middle ork unit down to 10, and to do the three wounds I need on the other unit, I weaken resolve one for -5, and the other for -4. I tank shock a deffkopta and it fails morale. Both the boy units fail.

Its bottom of turn 4 and he has a deffdread, a deffkopta, and a deffkopta reserve roll left to his name. My opponent heads for the tech station to come up with a counter. He has already found one that I am afraid of...



So two tablings of tourney tested hard lists, and a thrashing of a lash list that went too long and went down to a tie.

My list is locked until the meta shifts again. Time to start painting.

thanks for reading and kudos if you made it through the whole thing.

Yeah, I played like a douche that first game. I don't know what I was thinking and made a huge newbie daemon player error by not getting stuck in. Wish I would have had time for a reset, but I played it out as hard as I could and that turn 5 I almost managed to steal victory from you thanks to the soulgrinder. Ah well, next time, gadget, next time.

That list you are playing now is just absolutely brutal.

I read the whole thing, as I'm building a chimera-based list as well

Your list looks incredibly solid. I've been wondering about hull heavy bolters vs. heavy flamers, but it seems like the flamers are a no-brainer choice.

Do you think artillery is redundant in a list like this?

Dorfdorf wrote:Do you think artillery is redundant in a list like this?

I wouldn't budge on the russes... but you might be able to talk me out of hydras. I really want to cut my opponents mobility asap, even though the list is mechanized i would categorize it as slow. I'm moving 6" a turn, and I can't leap frog over anyone. Hydras take out fast stuff better than anyone.

But if you HATED infantry, and wanted artillery, thats where you can find a slot for it.

So, two questions:

1) How well have the Executioners held up to ranged fire and assault?

2) And has the Banewolf worked as you'd hoped it would in defending them? It looks like you've been more aggressive than defensive with it.

How confident do you feel against mech marines? Like a vulkan list with a bunch of mm/flamer speeders backed by pred's and dread's? There's not many guard players in my group to test against and i dont think any of them are really competative players.

Death By Monkeys wrote:1) How well have the Executioners held up to ranged fire and assault?

Almost impossible to effectively kill from further than 12" in front armor. Instantly dead to short range melta and CC. You've got to deploy and move accordingly.

Death By Monkeys wrote:2) And has the Banewolf worked as you'd hoped it would in defending them? It looks like you've been more aggressive than defensive with it.

Its out of the list. I'd rather pay 10 more points and get a CCS with 4x meltas in a chimera with hull heavy flamer. And I had the 10 point lying around in a psyker unit.

Khornatedemon wrote:How confident do you feel against mech marines? Like a vulkan list with a bunch of mm/flamer speeders backed by pred's and dread's? There's not many guard players in my group to test against and i dont think any of them are really competative players.

Tanks with armor 13 and 14 that aren't planning to get close to me will be able shoot for a few turns. If you selectively pop my 5 chimeras that have meltas, and hang back, things like predators and leman russes will just live forever.

My transports are better than your transports, but your guts are better than my guts. I think a comparable space marine mech list would be a close matchup. You'll want to close fast, which means helping me get my meltaguns in range. Because you won't be able to outshoot me from mid to long range.

But once the rhinos and the chimeras are all dead. My mans facing off against your mans on the ground, the advantage swings back to space marines. I think the leman russes may be the decider. But of course I'd have to see it on the table to tell you for sure.

Ultimately, anything that has a decent transport and lots of meltaguns has a good shot at facing off against the list. Marines have that.

Beware of "useless" units like chosen. I was surprised they managed to run rodshod in the back field. All in all geat list.

Khornatedemon wrote:How confident do you feel against mech marines? Like a vulkan list with a bunch of mm/flamer speeders backed by pred's and dread's? There's not many guard players in my group to test against and i dont think any of them are really competative players.

Tanks with armor 13 and 14 that aren't planning to get close to me will be able shoot for a few turns. If you selectively pop my 5 chimeras that have meltas, and hang back, things like predators and leman russes will just live forever.

My transports are better than your transports, but your guts are better than my guts. I think a comparable space marine mech list would be a close matchup. You'll want to close fast, which means helping me get my meltaguns in range. Because you won't be able to outshoot me from mid to long range.

But once the rhinos and the chimeras are all dead. My mans facing off against your mans on the ground, the advantage swings back to space marines. I think the leman russes may be the decider. But of course I'd have to see it on the table to tell you for sure.

Ultimately, anything that has a decent transport and lots of meltaguns has a good shot at facing off against the list. Marines have that.

Khornatedaemon - if you want to write up a list I would be happy to play it against shep and give a full batrep for you - obviously, I won't play exactly like you, but I am a decent enough general. I have been looking for a nice marine solution to that IG list.

Somnicide wrote:Khornatedaemon - if you want to write up a list I would be happy to play it against shep and give a full batrep for you - obviously, I won't play exactly like you, but I am a decent enough general. I have been looking for a nice marine solution to that IG list.

How many points do you fella's play? My 1750 tourny list is:

Vulkan

Dread with multi-melta

Dread with multi-melta

Dread with multi-melta

10 man tactical squad with flamer, multi-melta, powerfist and rhino (vulkan rides with them combat squaded usually)

10 man tactical squad with flamer, multi-melta, and rhino

10 man tactical squad with flamer, multi-melta, and rhino

Single Land speeder with MM/HF

2 Speeders with MM/HF

2 Speeders with MM/HF

Pred destructor

Pred destructor

Pred destructor

Most of the tourny's around here are smart and dont use KP missions so I dont worry about it as much although playing hide the single speeder in a KP missions isnt too hard. If you play smart with cover/smoke/and rhino's most of the army is more resilient than it looks.

Okay cool, we do 1750 too, though we use all missions (we pretty much think that the KP are the balance to the MSU as shep has mentioned elsewhere)

easily one of the nastier guard lists I've seen thus far. Congrats I'll have to steal the chimera psykers from you. I was already going to run 3x hydras no matter what just for the cool factor..... I'm going to play test those Russ's though as 10 plasma cannon shots after a move is... well... tasty!

Littleboyblues

hey shep, after having played a few games how do you feel an all foot guard list would do?
i have tons of infantry and loathe the idea of picking up chimeras for all of them.

Somnicide wrote:Okay cool, we do 1750 too, though we use all missions (we pretty much think that the KP are the balance to the MSU as shep has mentioned elsewhere)

I can see what you mean but totally prefer old school victory points. Although with so many armies going mech everyone seems to have a ton of KP's to give up these days so having things like single speeders arent so bad IMO.

usernamesareannoying wrote:hey shep, after having played a few games how do you feel an all foot guard list would do?
i have tons of infantry and loathe the idea of picking up chimeras for all of them.

Now that my meanest of the mean IG list is locked. I'm going to start actually having fun. I'm going back to infantry on the ground for that absolutely. As you can see by my batreps even though I've been playing guard for 3 years, I barely have any chimeras/hydras/plasma russes painted. I was all about infantry spam, thats why I shelled out for those pretty vostroyan models, its a real shame they stay in the case all game.

Psychic powers will run roughshod on foot lists, and the added defensive shell of mech armies will make killing things off a pain. But as long as yo have tons and tons of the right heavy weapons, you might be able to dismantle armies as they come at you.

Khornatedemon wrote:I can see what you mean but totally prefer old school victory points. Although with so many armies going mech everyone seems to have a ton of KP's to give up these days so having things like single speeders arent so bad IMO.

I like KP missions, and your list looks good and is in no way a KP liability. The thing about tanks and kill points, is that once an enemies tank kill is dead, they cease to become achievable KP.

My IG list has 17 KP, and I'd love to get in a KP game. I don't have to move towards objectives now? Same with your list. Get your dreads plugged into CCs, take out enemy meltaguns, and then you can just keep scooping up points all game.

Love the Batreps Shep.

Damn, lootaz got destroyed.

What an insane metagame shift!


I am being increasing convinced by the effectiveness of a triple Hydra squadron.

In addition, double LR Executioners seems rather nuts.

A couple of minor corrections to the lash game. The obliterator and executioner interplay lasted over two turns. The first turn occured as stated except that the oblits that were within 12 inches of an executioner missed both shots. The next turn the oblits that had mishaped came back and double stunned an executioner.

Very Nice,

Im building something very simillar, but with Vendettas instead of Hydras, exchanging one psyker squad for a second vet squad and no sponsons on the Prusses.

I dont have any hydras and Im not going to fork out for forgeworld ones so I have to find another solution and since I just love the valk model im going to try it out this way. Once I get them built ill do a few batreps at some of the local tourneys

Nice Batreps! Gives me something to think about for the guard army I've got. I'll probably be doing lots of conversions for a while *sigh*

But just a thought, what would happen if you ran against an army list of IG similar to your own? I mean its bound to happen at some point.
Do you think you could outmanouver them? or would it be a long range shooting match with luck being the decider?

ShadowRocket wrote:what would happen if you ran against an army list of IG similar to your own? I mean its bound to happen at some point.
Do you think you could outmanouver them? or would it be a long range shooting match with luck being the decider?

Of course if it was an identical list it would be all about generalship and luck. I'm certainly disadvantaged when facing a list that is well built that includes a vendetta or three (maybe instead of psykers and the second CCS)

But those vendetta players will struggle more against other armies where the 4 meltaguns and the weaken resolve really shine.


And welcome Manimal! He taught me everything I know about 40k.

Hmm, you guys should have played a game where the orks go first. If his two squads of loota's can pop your chimera's with psykers I think it would have made a game of it.

I think a 2 squad psyker list will just about hose anybody that has to take a morale check and isn't mech. Which will re-inforce the high amount of chaos you see at tournaments and possibly boost nid street cred.

Can you imagine the pain it would bring to a necron player ouch.

Warmaster wrote:Hmm, you guys should have played a game where the orks go first. If his two squads of loota's can pop your chimera's with psykers I think it would have made a game of it.

Certainly, but KevinNash wasn't really interested in seeing if he could claw out a win in the 42% of games where he goes first. If he can't make it close without first turn, he rightfully retreated to the planning table.

Warmaster wrote:I think a 2 squad psyker list will just about hose anybody that has to take a morale check and isn't mech. Which will re-inforce the high amount of chaos you see at tournaments and possibly boost nid street cred.

It's lash, again. But this time... my army has it! I'll stop using it for home games in a couple more weeks, unless requested. The best way to summarize what it does is to say that it makes morale tests to shooting as deadly as morale tests for losing combat. When IG shoots at you, they are using the CC morale rules. SCARY. You need transports or fearlessness if you expect to face one IG player at a tourney. Nids would be loving that, if they could kill a tank to save their lives. I should play with their book a little bit. See if there is a tank-hate list in there. Something that lives through melta/plasma spam like IG and lash.

Warmaster wrote:Hmm, you guys should have played a game where the orks go first. If his two squads of loota's can pop your chimera's with psykers I think it would have made a game of it.

Absolute best case is I pop both chimeras and kill enough guys inside from the explosion to neuter both squads. This only works in a pitched battle deployment with lucky rolls. Lootas are already a non-factor in dawn of war. Spearhead buys me one extra turn.

Realistically I down one squad entirely with one loota unit killing the vehicle and the second unit killing the exposed psykers. That still means one loota unit is running off the table during the bottom of turn 1. Now I have to take out 9 more guard vehicles with 1 weakened loota unit in two rounds of shooting before it inevitably runs away.

I think a 2 squad psyker list will just about hose anybody that has to take a morale check and isn't mech. Which will re-inforce the high amount of chaos you see at tournaments and possibly boost nid street cred.

This is a real problem for horde orks. Nob bikers are now unplayable in a tournament setting in any capacity. It's simply too risky having to test and watching 700 points worth of your army either running off the table or forced in a bubble where they they can't get into close combat.

Short of a unit of 30 boys I don't think orks can put anything on foot anymore.

I have been digging through the Tyranid codex for a few days now, trying to see what sort of army I could put together to contend and its been real difficult.

1) With the shift of Chimeras not being open-topped anymore when firing out of them, it further reduced the effectiveness of the Venom Cannon.

2) Genestealers are not fearless, so stealer shock becomes difficult and is greatly dependent on where IG deploy. Deny them the assault on the turn they arrive and they get removed from the table.

3) As normal, gaunts are resistant to the weaken resolve, but now you still got a pie plate right .

4) Killing Chimeras with Barbed Stranglers doesn't sound fun, and point for point its an uphill battle.

5) Screamer Killers / Ninja Fexes almost sound viable if they keep within Synapse, get lucky (eating meltas = death), and have good run rolls. Sounds like a lot of luck.. and only luck.

6) As with non-stealer shock lists, kill the synapse, win the game, still applies...

7) Getting Zoanthropes in range for a Warp Blast sounds like a suicide mission, and ok you kill 1 or 2 of how many tanks?

So I am seeing a pattern with Mechanized Guard = death to the foot sloggers, I am slowly making a Tyranid list (along with the N other armies I am building), so I would like to see how this plays out, but it looks bleak...

.. I am a chaos player, not a tyranid, so this is a VERY naive assessment.

its just nutty how the pendulum swings. So orks are gonna have to go all green tide or mech. How viable are mech orks these days?

If IG goes 2nd (against Ork) it is not hard to completely block LOS to the chimeras that have the psykers with AV14. Especially since you set up 2nd and can position AV14 between the psykers and the lootas.

However, if IG sets up 1st and the Orks seize the first turn, things would be interesting.


Very good assessment in saying that the Choir makes IG shooting just as deadly as assault. This is something that completely changes the metagame (as was demonstrated). Certain armies are going to be really vulnerable to this (poor necrons).

Double mounted Choirs will become almost standard imo.

Kevin Nash wrote: This is a real problem for horde orks. Nob bikers are now unplayable in a tournament setting in any capacity. It's simply too risky having to test and watching 700 points worth of your army either running off the table or forced in a bubble where they they can't get into close combat.

Short of a unit of 30 boys I don't think orks can put anything on foot anymore.

I have a feeling you are going to see more battlewagon lists. They were starting to become the rage before the nob bikers became popular. I also think you will see more buggies w/ rokkit's for anti-tank work. Evil Sunz might be all the rage here pretty soon.

Actually I think that would be a very cool looking battlefield tons of buggies and truks and wagons, racing across the field towards a line of imperial armor, good times, good times.

Also, gitsmack pointed out that Marneus Calgar helps out a lot against this type of list, as does Sicarius (which helps out marines, which is really all I care about right now).