Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi there, did a search but didn't find anything of use so started a new topic

I was in my local GW store the other day and its the first time I've actually read through the Black Templar codex and although I liked what I saw, I wanted to know a little more from peoples opinions before commiting myself to buying it.

I'm just wanting to know what people think....
1. About the codex?
2. What people feel is better in the BT codex compared to the Vanilla Codex
3. What people feel is worse in the BT codex compared to the Vanilla Codex
4. Would I be right in assuming that being able to field 10 marines and 10scouts in one unit and the codex special rules for leadership/morale, is what sets this codex apart from the others?
5. Do you need to play in a different style to the Vanilla Codex (Blood Angels codex is mostly an assualt army for example)

I would have asked these questions in store but i generally find my store to be biased and will simply tell me its the greatest thing since sliced bread whereas I can get honest opinions from fellow Dakkaties.

From what i have seen and the amount of BT Army Lists that came up in my search, people generally think this is a good codex, and I'm trying to understand why, and if you can point me anywhere to find useful information I'd be very appreciative.


Many Thanks
HG

Black Templar lets you play horde marines. It doesn't make any sense, but it's fun to see. I also hear some good things about the EC.

The ability they get to move either 3" or a full consolidation (can't remember which) whenever they pass a morale check is pretty nifty. They've all got nice leadership, and apparently they can choose to take a morale check after losing only one model to shooting, so they're almost always moving up. At least that's how the Black Templar player at my FLGS plays. He is one of the guys I haven't played yet and really want to, because a center-map brawl met on turn two and held out for the entire game between Space Wolves and Black Templars would be no end of hilarity, I think.

@Cheese Elemental
Horde Marines?!?! Yes thats does sound very out of place, and it would be a fine thing to be able to field all my scouts again.

My first thought to that idea was that your relying heavily on troop choices for your points, and whilst BT would be good against Tau or Orks in this setup, they would struggle against Mech armies.
Is that a fair assumption?

Yes, the abilities the EC can have do look very nice.

@Darkreaver
I must admit I did not see those rules, and if I'm reading you correctly, the option to role morale test after one casualty seems a little daft to me as a option.

Black Templar would be a little bit different then a normal vanilla marine list.

1. Righteous Zeal: Any time a Black Templar squad takes a casualty in the shooting phase they have to take a moral test. If they pass they have to move d6 inches towards the nearest visible enemy. This can allow them to get into close combat very quickly or be forced away from objectives.
2. They are fearless in close combat
3. They can have access to a vow. Vows can do some pretty scary things like give everyone preferred enemy or have the potential to nullify psychic powers
4. Troop squads are made up of Initiates which are armed with power armor, but can also include neophytes, with 4+ armor saves and BS & WS of 3.
5. The points cost for Squads & equipment is still pretty much in line with those from the 4th edition SM codex, so a little higher in general.
6. The flip side of the higher points cost is that vindicators can still take power of the machine spirit and land raider crusaders already have extra armor and a multimelta.

So you can make some pretty effective lists with as good as close combat is in 5th edition. You just lose the ability to combat squad, chapter tactics, and things tend to cost a little more.

a lot of Black Templar players I know always take a marshal, as he has leadership 10 and as long as he is alive any unit on the board can use his leadership.

The biggest reason to go Black Templars is that their models and bitz look awesome. All-Tabard armies? Yes, please!

Yeah, that Righteous Zeal is what I was talking about. The more you shoot em, the faster they get to you. The only problem I see with them is the fearless thing. You could easily pull them off an objective with the shooting and then lock them up with a tarpit in the last couple of turns. Also, if they get charged by something like horde orks/space wolves/berzerkers/bloodletters or something they're going to lose a lot to fearless saves. The vows definitely make up for it though, some of those are devastating.

You guys are missing the biggest reason to play them. My friend has them and he runs a very unconventional list with lots of tanks.

Why, does he do this you ask?

Oh it is a little thing called Machine spirit on every bloody tank he has. Yeah, watch a predator move 12" and fire with now BS 4.

focusedfire wrote:You guys are missing the biggest reason to play them. My friend has them and he runs a very unconventional list with lots of tanks.

Why, does he do this you ask?

Oh it is a little thing called Machine spirit on every bloody tank he has. Yeah, watch a predator move 12" and fire with now BS 4.

Sorry. The BT's Machine Spirit has BS2, and can only fire if the vehicle moves no more than 6". Check page 29 of the the BT codex.

The Black Templar sprue is simple awesome. I'm doing a Crusading Marine army because of that sprue alone. I'm not doing BT's mind you, but I'm doing an army based on them. They're just too cool.

How is the background material in the book? Good reading?

malfred wrote:How is the background material in the book? Good reading?

No, not at all.

The black templars are good for the following reasons.

1) Emperor's Champion gives the whole army preferred enemy.
2) Horde Marines (20 Man marine squads led by chaplains so they righteous zeal every time.) Add in Grimaldus for more fun.
3) Marshal still has Rites of Battle.
4) BT Termie squads can have two heavy weapons. (They can spill spam assault cannons.)
5) BT Troops squads can take LRC's as dedicated transports.

The problem is finding a nice happy medium between all of these to make a strong list.

Guess I'll have to get back to my Helbrecht fanfic.

BT's are the best marines IMO. Furious charge, tank hunting termies, LRC spam, being amazing in CC w/Rerolls, the grenade of antioch, Their assault terminators w/ LC's in assault are disgustingly powerful. ST5 Reroll the hit Reroll to wound plox? Thx!

1. The codex is amazing
2. BT Have the best special rules I have ever seen
3. Nothing is worse in the BT codex than the niller codex
4. 10 initiates and 9 neophytes if I remember right. And yes.
5. Yes, its a VERY powerful assault army. I played a dual game with my Orks with some guys BT's, he reached the other guys lines unscathed due to my horde being a shield. he proceeded to blow up 3 tanks and slaughter 4 FULL squads of guardsmen to the man on the first charge.... Multiple assault allowed 10 Initiates w/BP/CC w/ Emperors champion slaughter 16 guardsmen.

Check out www.yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com (i hope im allowed to post this ) the guy is really good at making lists and playing them. Check his BT lists.

^^^Post of the week.

As I recall, you can't force BTs of objectives by making them zeal since they have the option to move 0" for their compulsory move.

avantgarde wrote:^^^Post of the week.

As I recall, you can't force BTs of objectives by making them zeal since they have the option to move 0" for their compulsory move.

This is indeed....

Wait for it...

Waaaaait for it.......

-Drumroll-

Correct!

While it is true Righteous Zeal states they "Must Move" it says that it is "Identical to a Consolidate move" which says "they may move up to D6" in any direction". So yes, they MUST move, but you can Choose to move them 0" if you wish, and if someone throws a fuss about them not moving, move them 0.0000000000000000001", as its "Up to D6" ". The only time this might be a problem is if they are in Dangerous Terrain. As they are moving, but moving 0", so may or may not trigger Dangerous terrain tests depending on how you interpret what movement is.

EzeKK wrote:Check out www.yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com (i hope im allowed to post this ) the guy is really good at making lists and playing them. Check his BT lists.

Yes, we all know Stelek. He used to be a member here. I must say he wasn't a very nice person to know. In his world, it was play by his lists or you sucked.

As to BT being the best Marines... yes, they are very good in assaults, but they can't have Sternguard in drop-pods with combi-meltas or a character that gives you master-crafted thunder hammers, two of the best things in the vanilla codex.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

EzeKK wrote:Check out www.yesthetruthhurts.blogspot.com (i hope im allowed to post this ) the guy is really good at making lists and playing them. Check his BT lists.

Yes, we all know Stelek. He used to be a member here. I must say he wasn't a very nice person to know. In his world, it was play by his lists or you sucked.

As to BT being the best Marines... yes, they are very good in assaults, but they can't have Sternguard in drop-pods with combi-meltas or a character that gives you master-crafted thunder hammers, two of the best things in the vanilla codex.

What, you mean that Techmarines with Servitors and Pedro Are not the best? I was lied to!!

Question about the models:

Do stores carry Black Templar squads with the Crusader sprue, or is that
a mail order thing only now?

many thanks to everyone for your info.

I think I will be getting the codex as they appear to be an excellent choice for assault based armies like mine and for my vehicle based army I can use the standard codex

Cheers all
HG

Off-topic
Stelek is gone? "crawls out of his hiding hole" I.. I... I can post my opinions again witho... without fear of being called wrong and inferior "dances with glee in the meadow"

Why would you fear him or anybody?

If someone's being a jerk or trolling, call them on it or mod report it.

If someone's pointing out that you're being a jerk or a troll, take a moment to self-reflect
on whether they're telling you the truth or if they're just trolling, and go from there.

If the moderators and posters continue to behave in such a way that abuse happens,
then why stay?

malfred wrote:How is the background material in the book? Good reading?

It's standard GW tripe, but fanatically meaner. Black Templars are uber hard-asses, so they're not afraid to kill a *lot* of Traitors in the Emperor's name. Theme-wise, they're awesome.

malfred wrote:Do stores carry Black Templar squads with the Crusader sprue, or is that
a mail order thing only now?

GW stores still carry the Crusader upgrade bitz sprue boxed set. The BT squads that replaced the generic Tactical / Assault upgrades wtih BT bitz are long gone.

I don't think GW MO sells the infantry upgrade sprue separately any more - before Bitz got revamped, it was a better deal than having to buy overpriced Rhino & LRs doors to get the infantry upgrades. I bought several BT infantry bitz sprues via MO. Like most GW stuff, the upgrade box is overpriced, but if you want Tabards & Gorgets, you'll have to buy it.

Bah!

I mean, thanks.

30 dollar tabards....

You get a lot more than tabards for your $30. There are loads of cool weapons, shoulder pads, heads and other things in there. I love that sprue.

Oh no, I agree, it's just.

Tabards!

malfred wrote:Why would you fear him or anybody?

Sorry my bad, was aiming at sarcasm due to the way he talked down to everyone and seemed to me that he basically only wanted to hear the sounds of his own keys typing. Personally I ignored him.

Anyway, sorry for taking thread off topic
But whilst I'm off topic I may as well say YIPPPEEE 500posts!!


On Topic
Will try to get into the GW store this weekend and have another read of their fluff and special rules, and if i can finally persuade myself to part with the money .. .. I'll go online and get it cheaper

hellsguardian316 wrote:I'll go online and get it cheaper

I suggest you do.

I don't mind paying my gamestore tax.

Black Templars have some disadvantages too.
Our Storm Shields are 4++ instead of 3 (which is stupid.)
We pay more points across the board vehicle wise and we're missing some upgrades (our vindicators can't take siege shields)
We don't get the sweet Redeemer, which seems up close and nasty, just our style.
We also get the old and really crappy apothecary for our command squads. (ours ignores 1 failed armor save, codex marines get feel no pain)

On the other hand...
Righteous Zeal=Yes
Emperor's Champion is excellent game wise and a beautiful model.
Preferred Enemy? Yep.
Cooler Chaplains? Yep.
Sword Brethren being some of the coolest models ever? Yeah.

Load up a big crusader squad with an Emperor's Champion or Chaplain and watch the destruction. I'd use a jump pack Chaplain with a 10 man assault squad for added effect, but he could do some damage in a bigger squad as well.

In any case, if you've made your decision, welcome to the crusade!

Just pointing out BT Vindicators may not get siege shields, but we *do* get to take PotMS on our Vindicators. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with our Vindicators. Now... I wish we could take some sweet 85 point predators, but such is life.