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So what are we finding for the mighty Valkyrie?

I seems to me we can do some nice pie plate spam with valks and hellstrike missiles.

Scout 18" and then 2 ordinence strikes per valk? With the option of dropping in demo charge teams?

Use multiple rockets to move 12" and still fire them plus the multipas?

The door guns, while looking great, don't seem too useful. When would I stay still to shoot them?

Then of course there's the Vendetta as a tank hunter. Is 1 enough? 2? Or just valks with melta-totting vets?

Thoughts/

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The door guns, while looking great, don't seem too useful. When would I stay still to shoot them?

When offloading your Guardsmen. Door guns are meant to be defensive weapons.

The Valk is a fast skimmer so it can move 6" and shoot everything.

The problem with the door guns is that they can't both shoot straight forwards. However, I have a plan....

Valkyrie Vendettas with 3 tl las cannons for light vehicle hunting seem preferable then the Valkyrie variant with the multilaser and missle pods. You can get templates on Russes or Artillery peices with better strength and ap with some that even ignore cover then the Valkyrie's missle pods however 3 tl las cannons can only be had on a vulnerable heavy weapon squad with a bring it down order. For all mech this is not an option.

2 Vendettas in a squadron sound decent to kill Nob Bikers (first wound goes on warboss) or make kills more likely against av12 or 13.

Door gunners only seem worth considering for multilaser missle pod valkyries and the likely hood you stay still is low and you have to mod them so they can shoot forward.

Valks let you get a first turn charge w/ Grey Knight Terminators. Need to go first to pull this off though.

kadun wrote:Valks let you get a first turn charge w/ Grey Knight Terminators. Need to go first to pull this off though.

How is that legal?

Scott-S6 wrote:
The problem with the door guns is that they can't both shoot straight forwards. However, I have a plan....

I dunno, mine can. No conversion, no odd tweaks, just leaving both the mounting stand and bolter pivot turnable and they can get a forward angle.

Asmodeus wrote:

kadun wrote:Valks let you get a first turn charge w/ Grey Knight Terminators. Need to go first to pull this off though.

How is that legal?

GK Grand Master and retinue (allies)
Scout 18" (or is it 24"?)
Land, charge.

Nothing in the codex says that units in terminator armor can't get in a Valkyrie.

Don't want to get that cheesy? Just ally in some sisters of battle or Stormtroopers with flamers & melta and go to town.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Asmodeus wrote:

kadun wrote:Valks let you get a first turn charge w/ Grey Knight Terminators. Need to go first to pull this off though.

How is that legal?

GK Grand Master and retinue (allies)
Scout 18" (or is it 24"?)
Land, charge.

The scout move is 24" for a fast skimmer, but the scout USR says you have to stay 12" away from opposing units. Still, disembark 2", 1.5" base, 6" move, 6" charge should still let you pull it off 1st turn.

With all the long range scout moves that Valks, Vendies, and Creed allow, Guard can put a hurt on the first turn if they go first. I can drop all my melta/flamer vets, demolition charge SWS, Grey Knight Termie assault, Banewolf/Hellhound flame on the first turn.

Thats all awesome, but I find that armies that depend on going first are just too unreliable in a torunemant environment.

Building it based on going second, and choosing second turn when ever you can is far more reliable and very possible with guards ability to manipulate the reserve rolls, combined with all the outflanking capabilities.

The GKT first turn charge is Brutal, and Totally legal but if it does not work you have your Termies stuck in a thin skinned transport that they can not assault from.

If you went whole hog with GK, (i.e 6 GKT and 20 PAGK all riding Vendetta's) you have one hell of a moble attack force for either objectives or backfield hell raising.

I am still torn for my second iteration of guard whether to go GK, or Sisters riding the Valks/Vendis. I have a feeling that they will end up being your best bet for a "death from above" style army. Veterans are awesome but just too fragile, and ST , well ST have been traumatically abused by the nerf beatstick due to thier crazy cost increase.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Scout 18" and then 2 ordinence strikes per valk? With the option of dropping in demo charge teams?

Thoughts/

Am I mistaken or can't you only fire one ordnance shot per turn?

Wildeyedjester wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Scout 18" and then 2 ordinence strikes per valk? With the option of dropping in demo charge teams?

Thoughts/

Am I mistaken or can't you only fire one ordnance shot per turn?

You are correct sir! Not only that, but firing one of those missles stops you from firing anything else. Just another reason why you should never run a Valkyrie without the Rocket Pods!

Wildeyedjester wrote:Am I mistaken or can't you only fire one ordnance shot per turn?

This is actually one of the questions regarding the Valk/Vendy put in the list of questions raised by the new IG Codex.

Its just another example about how GW did not pay any attention to how the sloppy rules for the Valkyrie would effect gameplay.

Flying base, totally different from anything else in the game, not even mentioned. Not to mentions all the wierd interactions caused by the fact that the model has twice the footprint of any non super heavy they have ever released.

One can only hope GW will actually respond quickly with a FAQ on how to deal with all the poorly written guard rules.

A-P wrote:

This is actually one of the questions regarding the Valk/Vendy put in the list of questions raised by the new IG Codex.

I don't know that this would be one of the troubling areas like embarkation/disembarkation. I don't have my rulebook in front of me but I think it says under vehicle movement that if you fire an ordnance weapon you can't fire anything else.

Wildeyedjester wrote:

A-P wrote:

This is actually one of the questions regarding the Valk/Vendy put in the list of questions raised by the new IG Codex.

I don't know that this would be one of the troubling areas like embarkation/disembarkation. I don't have my rulebook in front of me but I think it says under vehicle movement that if you fire an ordnance weapon you can't fire anything else.

There is no question of the RAW, but they did such a god aweful job dealing with the valkyrie that its up in the air if what the RAI was. So its worth asking, but baring any response its pretty clear that if you fire the missle thats your entire shooting phase for that Valk.

bigtmac68 wrote:
There is no question of the RAW, but they did such a god aweful job dealing with the valkyrie that its up in the air if what the RAI was. So its worth asking, but baring any response its pretty clear that if you fire the missle thats your entire shooting phase for that Valk.

What he said.

Is the Valk a dedicated transport?

No. Its not.

So according to the rules for dedicated transport, how can legally have Grey Knights starting in the Valk?

Asmodeus wrote:So according to the rules for dedicated transport, how can legally have Grey Knights starting in the Valk?

Because it isn't a dedicated transport.

I tihnkthe rules you're thinking of deal with starting a unit of Grey Knights in a dedicated transport that is not their own transport (ie starting a unit of Grey Knights inside of a Chimera that was bought as a trnsport for an infantry squad). This is not allowed because only the unit that bought the transport may start embarked in it. Since the Valkyrie is not a dedicated transport, rather just a skimmer/fast attack choice vehicle that has transport capacity, a unit may start inside of it.

You still can't pull off a first turn charge do to Grav Chute Insertion.

"Nominate any point over which the Valkyrie or Vendetta moved over and deploy the squad as if it were deep striking onto that point."

And everyone knows you can't charge after deep striking unless you're Lesser Daemons.

You could actually read the rule Asmodeus. That is only if the Valk has moved Flat out in the previous turn.

Amazingly units in transports have this ability called disembarking. They utilize these advanced mobility givers called legs to walk down a sophisticated incline plane called a ramp. They can then execute a variety of tactical maneuvers like movement or shooting.

DarkHellion wrote:You could actually read the rule Asmodeus.

I did. Thank you.

DarkHellion wrote:That is only if the Valk has moved Flat out in the previous turn.

Actually it's not. You need to re-read it again.

DarkHellion wrote:
Amazingly units in transports have this ability called disembarking. They utilize these advanced mobility givers called legs to walk down a sophisticated incline plane called a ramp. They can then execute a variety of tactical maneuvers like movement or shooting.

You don't need to be a snarky jackass.

Amazingly units in transports have this ability called disembarking. They utilize these advanced mobility givers called legs to walk down a sophisticated incline plane called a ramp. They can then execute a variety of tactical maneuvers like movement or shooting.

Yes, except the same absolute use of RAW (allowing 12 GKTs in a Valk) would also make it impossible to actually disembark from a Valk without using grav chute insertion. 5" high flying stand for the lose.

Does anyone else find the idea of a parachuting terminator hilarious? Their shoulders are so wide they'd never reach the ripcord.

I pulled this off yesterday. Suffice to say my opponent was not happy with me.

"OK, my Valkyrie is moving 18" and the Grey Knight Terminators are disembarking."
"What? Since when can you do that?"
"Since my new codex came out."
"Ok, they're charging your Seer Council and-"
"No, feth you, you can't use Grey Knights in a Valkyrie!"
"Where does it say I can't?"
"feth you, that's abusing the rules."
"No, it's a legitimate strategy."

This was then followed by a colourful torrent of bad words that should never be repeated, at risk of your ears.

Asmodeus, with out being a turd I would like to explain to you what ( I think ) enables the GK's to make a first turn assault.
As a scout move before the game you send the Valk/ Vend flat out at the enemy lines (18'')
Turn one you don't move the transport and then disembark from the transport normally, no grave chute insertion, and then Charge (8-9'' more)

This first turn assault is possible purely due to the fact that the Valk/ Vend can make a scout move. I don't think I have missed anything.

Redbeard wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
The problem with the door guns is that they can't both shoot straight forwards. However, I have a plan....

I dunno, mine can. No conversion, no odd tweaks, just leaving both the mounting stand and bolter pivot turnable and they can get a forward angle.

Unless the door gunner is dangling from the back of it then it can't shoot directly forwards, you know, so that both heavy bolters can be used at once.