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Swordwind wrote:Didn't you know? GW invented everything under Heaven, including Heaven. Or at least their IP lawyers AND APOLOGISTS would like you to think.

Added to your line..

Vlad, love your work!!!

Padre^.

Chaosium's "White Bear, Red Moon" wargame featured a Dwarf and his 'cannon cult' as a unit in 1975.

AoW Who are they ?

loki old fart wrote:AoW Who are they ?

Avatars of War.

loki old fart wrote:AoW Who are they ?

AoW = Avatars of War, loki - they've done a selection of heroes (and now a couple of plastic units, I believe), who some would have you believe is a direct take on GW's IP.

To be fair, he sculpted those GW miniatures he is supposed to copy AFAIK.

Warpath: A sci-fi game of dwarf cloning in spaaaace.

Thank you most kindly

darkslife wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:

Why of course it is. One look at GW's fantasy range reveals a wealth of protectable ideas, from the fanciful dwarven flying machines, steam tanks, riflemen... I mean, the list just goes on and on...


*N.B. Before anyone begins ranting about who copied who, my point isn't who first popularized a unit, it's noting that almost nothing aside from a few of the proper names in WHFB (or WoW, for that matter) are protectable in any meaningful way.

Uh dwarves have been portrayed as technically advanced in a number of books/rpgs etc.

I could make a dwarven helicopter tomorrow, and as long as I do not call it "Dwarven Gyrocopter" or make it an exact copy - I am golden. I could make it look very similar, but its my ip, and they can not sue me for it.

In fact I'm more than willing to bet GW has already asked their lawyers about Mantic, and have been shot down hard. GW is very legal happy, which is detrimental to the hobby, but good for GW.

Personally, I can not wait to see WARPATH rules and miniatures, and I'm hopeful its easily scaleable from small to large battles. If they do a human empire army, I am hopeful that if they have walking tanks, they are a lot better than the "I'm an american footballer in armour" that space marines have going on.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Hold up... isn't there a Dwarven Gyrocoptor in Warcraft II and Warcraft III? I wasn't aware that GW had invented the concept of a medieval helicopter that happens to be piloted by Dwarves?

My only point in objecting to people judging the entirety of mantics range by their elves is that it's stupid to judge other miniatures lines by look at miniatures not in those lines. And that a company's first offerings may have issues as they figure things out.

I think th elves look better in person than in the pictures, but the proportions and sizes make them incompatible with my other elf miniatures from a variety of companies that are not GW. And they're especially incompatible with GW.

I just don't get how their elves being bad influences anything about their fantastic zombies and ghouls. Is this a result of the GW only mindset where you think you have to use miniatures from one manufacturer and one manufacturer only, so if you don't like *everything* they do, then they all become bad?

It is especially pointless comparing Mantics Elves to a sci-fi sculpt that has not been seen yet.

Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.

Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

kronk wrote:Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.

Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

You rang?

Is it just me? When I was watching the BOW turn 8 vid on the announcement of Warpath when Ronnie seemed serious when he said he was not releasing anymore details about it unit Warpath week on BOW.

After that he jokingly said Space dwarfs and Space Orcs. I took this as a Joke so I would not assume that they are going to do fantasy in space just yet they seemed to be taking the piss out of that concept on the show.

Grot 6, nothing you're saying is disagreeing with anything I've been saying. I've been gaming since 1984 and have seen many companies come and go. I've seen the top dogs disappear into obscurity and up and comers fizzle so quickly.

But none of that has anything to do with a company's earliest miniatures being their poorest. I'm glad they've gotten better and agree that they need to get better still.

I don't see what is "drinking the koolaid" about saying "Yeah, their first stuff is not as good as their later stuff." Or "It's a shame their elves are incompatible with all the other elves on the market, especially lose made by the biggest player in miniatures (GW)."

Perhaps you're reading some other posts into my posts?

What I am saying is that judging miniatures from the undead line by the elf line is totally illogical regardless if the company making them is GW, Manitc, Privateer, Reaper or another other miniature company.

Buy the miniatures you like from whatever companies make them and play with whatever rules you like. In what way is that asking you to drink the koolaid?

As an aside, I never really understood why people get such a hard on for continued company support of a game.

I mean, once you've bought the game, have your miniatures etc, and have a group to play with, what does it matter if the company that made the game goes out of business?

In my opinion, this is one of the contributing factors in the whole GW saga....in some ways, it could be said that they are responding to the communities "needs" with their continous updates and rules changes....we the consumer have created an unwritten rule in terms of "the need for continous support" which in turn has created a marketing and business strategy that most wargames companies use as a bench-mark.

kronk wrote:Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.
Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

Dune is a novel, a famous one at that, which started a series of novels.
And there are two Dune movies now (plus an alternative design for the first one by Giger that was rejected).

Kroothawk wrote:

kronk wrote:Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.
Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

Dune is a novel, a famous one at that, which started a series of novels.
And there are two Dune movies now (plus an alternative design for the first one by Giger that was rejected).

Actually there's only one Dune movie. Produced in the 1980s by David Lynch.

The other was a miniseries done by SciFi Channel/Hallmark Entertainment.

Although I should also add that it's worth noting that while Lynch was fairly close to the source material, he also took absurd liberties with parts of it (like the "Weirding Module" and the Navigator looking like a giant wrinkled stingray).

Delephont wrote:As an aside, I never really understood why people get such a hard on for continued company support of a game.

I mean, once you've bought the game, have your miniatures etc, and have a group to play with, what does it matter if the company that made the game goes out of business?

In my opinion, this is one of the contributing factors in the whole GW saga....in some ways, it could be said that they are responding to the communities "needs" with their continous updates and rules changes....we the consumer have created an unwritten rule in terms of "the need for continous support" which in turn has created a marketing and business strategy that most wargames companies use as a bench-mark.

People need the buzz to keep themselves entertained... even if I personally dont care much about the company itself but rather the products they do its safe to assume that a company that keeps a steady job entertaining me by new minis new rules updates etc is a company that will get more of my money.

There are lots of miniatures companies on the market and if people only imagined the time frame to sculpt a miniature and cast and finally put it on the market they would not be surprised if some miniatures take more than a couple months to be released... yet if a company doesnt release some minis every month its considered "dead"... you know man and their toys... they always want more and faster.

Kanluwen wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

kronk wrote:Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.
Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

Dune is a novel, a famous one at that, which started a series of novels.
And there are two Dune movies now (plus an alternative design for the first one by Giger that was rejected).

Actually there's only one Dune movie. Produced in the 1980s by David Lynch.

The other was a miniseries done by SciFi Channel/Hallmark Entertainment.

Although I should also add that it's worth noting that while Lynch was fairly close to the source material, he also took absurd liberties with parts of it (like the "Weirding Module" and the Navigator looking like a giant wrinkled stingray).

Not true, about there being only one movie....the second one is in production apparently.....and yes: I'm a MASSIVE Dune fan.....the best Sci Fi ever written in my opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NAVARRO wrote:

Delephont wrote:As an aside, I never really understood why people get such a hard on for continued company support of a game.

I mean, once you've bought the game, have your miniatures etc, and have a group to play with, what does it matter if the company that made the game goes out of business?

In my opinion, this is one of the contributing factors in the whole GW saga....in some ways, it could be said that they are responding to the communities "needs" with their continous updates and rules changes....we the consumer have created an unwritten rule in terms of "the need for continous support" which in turn has created a marketing and business strategy that most wargames companies use as a bench-mark.

People need the buzz to keep themselves entertained... even if I personally dont care much about the company itself but rather the products they do its safe to assume that a company that keeps a steady job entertaining me by new minis new rules updates etc is a company that will get more of my money.

There are lots of miniatures companies on the market and if people only imagined the time frame to sculpt a miniature and cast and finally put it on the market they would not be surprised if some miniatures take more than a couple months to be released... yet if a company doesnt release some minis every month its considered "dead"... you know man and their toys... they always want more and faster.

You must be talking about one of my miniature producing heros Corvus Belli yes, they seem to be able to maintain the buzz with beautiful sculpts almost every month....amazing company.

Delephont wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

kronk wrote:Clearly WARPATH has stolen from Dune's IP.
Quick, someone find that one guy that has actually watched that movie...

Dune is a novel, a famous one at that, which started a series of novels.
And there are two Dune movies now (plus an alternative design for the first one by Giger that was rejected).

Actually there's only one Dune movie. Produced in the 1980s by David Lynch.

The other was a miniseries done by SciFi Channel/Hallmark Entertainment.

Although I should also add that it's worth noting that while Lynch was fairly close to the source material, he also took absurd liberties with parts of it (like the "Weirding Module" and the Navigator looking like a giant wrinkled stingray).

Not true, about there being only one movie....the second one is in production apparently.....and yes: I'm a MASSIVE Dune fan.....the best Sci Fi ever written in my opinion.

I didn't believe you at first, but then I looked and there it was. Dune(2014) and no other details out there.

Weird, I'd never heard anything about it before.

frozenwastes wrote:Grot 6, nothing you're saying is disagreeing with anything I've been saying. I've been gaming since 1984 and have seen many companies come and go. I've seen the top dogs disappear into obscurity and up and comers fizzle so quickly.

But none of that has anything to do with a company's earliest miniatures being their poorest. I'm glad they've gotten better and agree that they need to get better still.

I don't see what is "drinking the koolaid" about saying "Yeah, their first stuff is not as good as their later stuff." Or "It's a shame their elves are incompatible with all the other elves on the market, especially lose made by the biggest player in miniatures (GW)."

Perhaps you're reading some other posts into my posts?

What I am saying is that judging miniatures from the undead line by the elf line is totally illogical regardless if the company making them is GW, Manitc, Privateer, Reaper or another other miniature company.

Buy the miniatures you like from whatever companies make them and play with whatever rules you like. In what way is that asking you to drink the koolaid?

nah, bro. My ... uh post was a add to the general discussion, not that you'd know it now.

Aside from whatever ~!@# keeps nicking my posts, I'm saying the same thing you are.
Long story short is that at the end of the day we're talking about gaming, and all fo the sideshow antics that GW brought to the table were outright unnessesary. I mean by "Drinking the kool-aid" by the impression that people are giving that Mantic is walking on water here and can do no wrong. Honestly? If you like them, hey thats great, buy them and play. I just don't see throwing up a bunch of airs that quite frankly it is too early to tell that they are going to stick around. Elfs smelfs, milfs, I don't care about them, honestly. My thing is that we've seen time and again, the be all end all company that was supposed to give GW competition, and where are they all now? Either C and D'd into oblivion, or they have taken the preverbial crap on themselves and did themselves the solid.
At the end of the day, we're talking about decent figures, and a decent price, with a staff that actually is discussing whats going on and coming to us with something other then, "Yeah, we did it, what are you going to do about it?", mentality.

MDizzle wrote:Is it just me? When I was watching the BOW turn 8 vid on the announcement of Warpath when Ronnie seemed serious when he said he was not releasing anymore details about it unit Warpath week on BOW.

After that he jokingly said Space dwarfs and Space Orcs. I took this as a Joke so I would not assume that they are going to do fantasy in space just yet they seemed to be taking the piss out of that concept on the show.

He could have been misleading us, but I doubt it. The leaked concept art clearly shows a vehicle driven by a dwarf.

I thought I heard him say "Space Elves" but I don't have great computer audio.

For those who still think there will be a Dune remake.
http://www.digitalspy.ca/movies/news/a310618/dune-remake-dropped-by-paramount.html
Now let's get back to bashing ugly space dwarves.

poipo32 wrote:For those who still think there will be a Dune remake.
http://www.digitalspy.ca/movies/news/a310618/dune-remake-dropped-by-paramount.html
Now let's get back to bashing ugly space dwarves.

Phew. Thank God.

IMDB needs to get their shenanigans together then.

Maybe they could reinvent Bugs et al in an all new Loony Doons?

Eilif wrote:

MDizzle wrote:Is it just me? When I was watching the BOW turn 8 vid on the announcement of Warpath when Ronnie seemed serious when he said he was not releasing anymore details about it unit Warpath week on BOW.

After that he jokingly said Space dwarfs and Space Orcs. I took this as a Joke so I would not assume that they are going to do fantasy in space just yet they seemed to be taking the piss out of that concept on the show.

He could have been misleading us, but I doubt it. The leaked concept art clearly shows a vehicle driven by a dwarf.

I thought I heard him say "Space Elves" but I don't have great computer audio.

In all honesty all it was was a chicken-scratch concept sketch on a napkin or something.
We know that Warpath is coming out, other then that, we have some hope that there is going to be some drunkin spacedwarfs, and something like a thundercat tank. Until we have more, like I said, Mantics a nice new company coming out of the box with the new shoe smell. Lets see how they do with some prepainted crap that "80% of the gamers out there can play with out of the box", or ... "You can use any sci-fi figures andmake up your own races, and...." or the ever populer, "Hey it's cheapers to play, AND... you don't need that munch of a investment to play a game!" or any number of false flag claims that companies that have come and gone have given us over the years.

I'm sure I missed a few, but I hope they do well, regardless. I, for one, welcome our new mass production space dwarf army overlords.

poipo32 wrote:For those who still think there will be a Dune remake.
http://www.digitalspy.ca/movies/news/a310618/dune-remake-dropped-by-paramount.html
Now let's get back to bashing ugly space dwarves.

It simply says that Paramount has dropped out, it doesn't say the director has decided to drop the project.

Sorry if this is off topic (even though the actual topic is dead!?!?) but I'd love to see a modern remake, using the latest technology.....still, nothing will ever compare to the books

Padre wrote:

Swordwind wrote:Didn't you know? GW invented everything under Heaven, including Heaven. Or at least their IP lawyers AND APOLOGISTS would like you to think.

Added to your line..

Vlad, love your work!!!

Padre^.

Thank you good sir! I'm glad that the truly intelligent people on this forum have been appreciating my work.

Think space dwarves are a given. Got to be some sort of human race but other than thundercats what else could they do?

GW legal team are probably having a fit. After success with Fantasy what impact will they have on Sci-fi?