Obama Endorses Gay Marriage

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**sirlynchmob**

biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

**Corpsesarefun**

This thread makes Corpsey sad.

**sirlynchmob**

rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I would prefer a referendum than just a straight pass. Also, I would much prefer the term Cival Partnership.

People seem to hate conservatism a lot these days. I'm sick of people saying "Do what you want, it's their lives" but when the conservative view is put on the table they run to the hill shouting "Oh my, Biggot, biggot." Conservatives like me are being lenient. If I was put in Government I would have Conserative areas which Conservative families can live in peace without being called "Biggoted".

Hate speech is free speech. Athiests can make all sorts of absurd claims about religons yet we can't sue them for "Hate speech". Throw politcal correctness out of the windows, it is unneeded and it ends with unnessacary court cases. If you call me a homophobe, you are cleary a conservaphobe. End of line, intil the LGB(T) Community changes it's message from:

Spoiler:

To something a lot more presentable and more appealing to Conservatives then I will take this seriously. It makes me wonder if people who oppose it should make a black and white flag with circles on it as a joke. Seriously quit the flag concept, it's not working, to me it seems like you want your own little Nation. Make a presentable argument and stop spamming the same thing over and over again. Also, the Flamboyancy is a big turn off for a lot of older and younger people, that needs to stop.

so you want to put all the conservatives in interment camps? Cool.

If you use your bible to justify any position you hold, you open it up to criticism, that is not hate speech. Showing how the bible endorsed slavery is not bashing your religion, its your religion, you should know what your book says. If their is morally repugnant stuff in your bible, maybe you should send it in for a remake.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything, they can be as flamboyant as they want to be. If you don't like it, thats your problem. If you think you have some sort of right to tell them how to live, then you are being the bigot.

I am not Christian. Christianity is not conservatism. I am Asatruan. I'm pointing out, if they want me to take the idea of Gay Marriage seriously, then they should not act like that.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything.

Let's pick on this for a second. So, you have no right to stop a person comitting suicide or something else which is not too smart. Nice thinking buddy.

If the person wants to commit suicide, let him. quite a few people prefer the term euthanasia. If you come across someone dying with a DNR bracelet, would you give them cpr?

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people with Mental Ilnesses or Personality Disorders. People who you can help. DNR are used in rare cases for incurable illnesses.

You didn't specify any of that, quit moving the goal post.

**biccat**

sirlynchmob wrote:Thats not absurd though, its truth.

Well, that wasn't unexpected.

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

**Piston Honda**

Quote from the husband is totally true. How many guys do you know like watching lesbian porn?

**sirlynchmob**

rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

shifting the goal post again eh? You get better moral stories from the grimm brothers

Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:Thats not absurd though, its truth.

Well, that wasn't unexpected.

if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I would prefer a referendum than just a straight pass. Also, I would much prefer the term Cival Partnership.

People seem to hate conservatism a lot these days. I'm sick of people saying "Do what you want, it's their lives" but when the conservative view is put on the table they run to the hill shouting "Oh my, Biggot, biggot." Conservatives like me are being lenient. If I was put in Government I would have Conserative areas which Conservative families can live in peace without being called "Biggoted".

Hate speech is free speech. Athiests can make all sorts of absurd claims about religons yet we can't sue them for "Hate speech". Throw politcal correctness out of the windows, it is unneeded and it ends with unnessacary court cases. If you call me a homophobe, you are cleary a conservaphobe. End of line, intil the LGB(T) Community changes it's message from:

Spoiler:

To something a lot more presentable and more appealing to Conservatives then I will take this seriously. It makes me wonder if people who oppose it should make a black and white flag with circles on it as a joke. Seriously quit the flag concept, it's not working, to me it seems like you want your own little Nation. Make a presentable argument and stop spamming the same thing over and over again. Also, the Flamboyancy is a big turn off for a lot of older and younger people, that needs to stop.

so you want to put all the conservatives in interment camps? Cool.

If you use your bible to justify any position you hold, you open it up to criticism, that is not hate speech. Showing how the bible endorsed slavery is not bashing your religion, its your religion, you should know what your book says. If their is morally repugnant stuff in your bible, maybe you should send it in for a remake.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything, they can be as flamboyant as they want to be. If you don't like it, thats your problem. If you think you have some sort of right to tell them how to live, then you are being the bigot.

I am not Christian. Christianity is not conservatism. I am Asatruan. I'm pointing out, if they want me to take the idea of Gay Marriage seriously, then they should not act like that.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything.

Let's pick on this for a second. So, you have no right to stop a person comitting suicide or something else which is not too smart. Nice thinking buddy.

If the person wants to commit suicide, let him. quite a few people prefer the term euthanasia. If you come across someone dying with a DNR bracelet, would you give them cpr?

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people with Mental Ilnesses or Personality Disorders. People who you can help. DNR are used in rare cases for incurable illnesses.

You didn't specify any of that, quit moving the goal post.

You automatically jumped the gun and thought of the most emphasisable situations. Also, your avoiding talking about Mental Illnesses and Personality Disorders.

**biccat**

sirlynchmob wrote:if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

Of course you can.

And it says a lot about you that you choose to do so.

**sirlynchmob**

rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I would prefer a referendum than just a straight pass. Also, I would much prefer the term Cival Partnership.

People seem to hate conservatism a lot these days. I'm sick of people saying "Do what you want, it's their lives" but when the conservative view is put on the table they run to the hill shouting "Oh my, Biggot, biggot." Conservatives like me are being lenient. If I was put in Government I would have Conserative areas which Conservative families can live in peace without being called "Biggoted".

Hate speech is free speech. Athiests can make all sorts of absurd claims about religons yet we can't sue them for "Hate speech". Throw politcal correctness out of the windows, it is unneeded and it ends with unnessacary court cases. If you call me a homophobe, you are cleary a conservaphobe. End of line, intil the LGB(T) Community changes it's message from:

Spoiler:

To something a lot more presentable and more appealing to Conservatives then I will take this seriously. It makes me wonder if people who oppose it should make a black and white flag with circles on it as a joke. Seriously quit the flag concept, it's not working, to me it seems like you want your own little Nation. Make a presentable argument and stop spamming the same thing over and over again. Also, the Flamboyancy is a big turn off for a lot of older and younger people, that needs to stop.

so you want to put all the conservatives in interment camps? Cool.

If you use your bible to justify any position you hold, you open it up to criticism, that is not hate speech. Showing how the bible endorsed slavery is not bashing your religion, its your religion, you should know what your book says. If their is morally repugnant stuff in your bible, maybe you should send it in for a remake.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything, they can be as flamboyant as they want to be. If you don't like it, thats your problem. If you think you have some sort of right to tell them how to live, then you are being the bigot.

I am not Christian. Christianity is not conservatism. I am Asatruan. I'm pointing out, if they want me to take the idea of Gay Marriage seriously, then they should not act like that.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything.

Let's pick on this for a second. So, you have no right to stop a person comitting suicide or something else which is not too smart. Nice thinking buddy.

If the person wants to commit suicide, let him. quite a few people prefer the term euthanasia. If you come across someone dying with a DNR bracelet, would you give them cpr?

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people with Mental Ilnesses or Personality Disorders. People who you can help. DNR are used in rare cases for incurable illnesses.

You didn't specify any of that, quit moving the goal post.

You automatically jumped the gun and thought of the most emphasisable situations. Also, your avoiding talking about Mental Illnesses and Personality Disorders.

What about them, I thought I covered that with if a person wants to commit suicide, then let him.

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

shifting the goal post again eh? You get better moral stories from the grimm brothers

Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:Thats not absurd though, its truth.

Well, that wasn't unexpected.

if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

The fact is you called it Child Abuse. Which is unacceptable and it makes you look like an uneducated virulent youth.

**sirlynchmob**

biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

Of course you can.

And it says a lot about you that you choose to do so.

Ditto

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:I would prefer a referendum than just a straight pass. Also, I would much prefer the term Cival Partnership.

People seem to hate conservatism a lot these days. I'm sick of people saying "Do what you want, it's their lives" but when the conservative view is put on the table they run to the hill shouting "Oh my, Biggot, biggot." Conservatives like me are being lenient. If I was put in Government I would have Conserative areas which Conservative families can live in peace without being called "Biggoted".

Hate speech is free speech. Athiests can make all sorts of absurd claims about religons yet we can't sue them for "Hate speech". Throw politcal correctness out of the windows, it is unneeded and it ends with unnessacary court cases. If you call me a homophobe, you are cleary a conservaphobe. End of line, intil the LGB(T) Community changes it's message from:

Spoiler:

To something a lot more presentable and more appealing to Conservatives then I will take this seriously. It makes me wonder if people who oppose it should make a black and white flag with circles on it as a joke. Seriously quit the flag concept, it's not working, to me it seems like you want your own little Nation. Make a presentable argument and stop spamming the same thing over and over again. Also, the Flamboyancy is a big turn off for a lot of older and younger people, that needs to stop.

so you want to put all the conservatives in interment camps? Cool.

If you use your bible to justify any position you hold, you open it up to criticism, that is not hate speech. Showing how the bible endorsed slavery is not bashing your religion, its your religion, you should know what your book says. If their is morally repugnant stuff in your bible, maybe you should send it in for a remake.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything, they can be as flamboyant as they want to be. If you don't like it, thats your problem. If you think you have some sort of right to tell them how to live, then you are being the bigot.

I am not Christian. Christianity is not conservatism. I am Asatruan. I'm pointing out, if they want me to take the idea of Gay Marriage seriously, then they should not act like that.

You have no right to tell anyone to stop anything.

Let's pick on this for a second. So, you have no right to stop a person comitting suicide or something else which is not too smart. Nice thinking buddy.

If the person wants to commit suicide, let him. quite a few people prefer the term euthanasia. If you come across someone dying with a DNR bracelet, would you give them cpr?

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people with Mental Ilnesses or Personality Disorders. People who you can help. DNR are used in rare cases for incurable illnesses.

You didn't specify any of that, quit moving the goal post.

You automatically jumped the gun and thought of the most emphasisable situations. Also, your avoiding talking about Mental Illnesses and Personality Disorders.

What about them, I thought I covered that with if a person wants to commit suicide, then let him.

Wow. You must be trolling or a huge Nihilist.

**Melissia**

rockerbikie wrote:The fact is you called it Child Abuse. Which is unacceptable

I don't necessarily agree that it's child abuse, but I think you need a better argument than "it's unacceptable".

Although I know many religious folk who have argued that inducting a child in to a cult is child abuse. Brainwashing and all that.

**Deadshot**

rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

What I believe he means that children are indoctrinated into a religion at a young age. Anything they hear is fact. By getting them to learn it so young they take it as gospel, no pun intended, and refuse to believe anything else in later life. There are exceptions obviously. By forcing them, it can be construed as child abuse.

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

Of course you can.

And it says a lot about you that you choose to do so.

Ditto

Let's not get into Spirtuality and other things but there are metapsychical ways to know. Not everything is so clear cut is it?

**biccat**

sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

Of course you can.

And it says a lot about you that you choose to do so.

Ditto

I would hope it does.

My country values religious freedom. I suspect yours does too. Most civilized people have recognized that it is a good thing to allow people to have their own religious beliefs.

Unfortunately, lately we've had bigots like Dawkins emerge into the public scene who spout their hatred and desire to revoke the religious liberty that so many are afforded by their fellow citizens. Tyranny, however, is never a good thing. Even if done for noble reasons.

**sirlynchmob**

rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

shifting the goal post again eh? You get better moral stories from the grimm brothers

Automatically Appended Next Post:

biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:Thats not absurd though, its truth.

Well, that wasn't unexpected.

if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

The fact is you called it Child Abuse. Which is unacceptable and it makes you look like an uneducated virulent youth.

I didn't, dawkins did. as such though, he made a claim, If his data supports his conclusions then it is child abuse. I don't read dawkins so I'm not sure what research he did on the subject, but its more likely to be true, then absurd.

**rockerbikie**

Melissia wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:The fact is you called it Child Abuse. Which is unacceptable
I don't necessarily agree that it's child abuse, but I think you need a better argument than "it's unacceptable".

Although I know many religious folk who have argued that inducting a child in to a cult is child abuse. Brainwashing and all that.

Seeing no other way is not that smart. Religon is a good way to teach a child before he/she has the intectual ability to comprehend what they are doing. Calling it Child Abuse is not acceptable.

**mattyrm**

biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Biccat, your a smart fella, surely you don't think that counts as "absurd" either?

I mean, you can disagree.. I think I do as well, as I wouldn't say it is abuse per say, but its definately not absurd to have that opinion. He gives many many logical reasons about how he came to this conclusion.

As always, I think its a wee bit strong with Richard, but it most definately isnt absurd. Check out "converts corner" on his website, literally thousands of people who were raised devout will tell you exactly why it isnt. I remember hearing a girl on the radio saying she had nightmares when she was five because her best friend was going to go to hell.

Anyway, as I said, I dont think you really believe it is "absurd" you just disagree with it. And that's fine, so do I, I think he is being a bit too strong with his argument.

If I'm wrong however and you do indeed think it is totally absurd, then, not only have you hugely gone down in my estimation, you have just lost an argument.

**sirlynchmob**

biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:if you can claim without evidence his statement is absurd, then I can also state it to be absolute truth.

Of course you can.

And it says a lot about you that you choose to do so.

Ditto

I would hope it does.

My country values religious freedom. I suspect yours does too. Most civilized people have recognized that it is a good thing to allow people to have their own religious beliefs.

Unfortunately, lately we've had bigots like Dawkins emerge into the public scene who spout their hatred and desire to revoke the religious liberty that so many are afforded by their fellow citizens. Tyranny, however, is never a good thing. Even if done for noble reasons.

and quite a few religious bigots who think their book somehow gives them the right to tell others how to live their lives.

**Melissia**

mattyrm wrote:I remember hearing a girl on the radio saying she had nightmares when she was five because her best friend was going to go to hell.

Yeah, children think about these things more than adults do.

Which is infinitely sad.

**rockerbikie**

Deadshot wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

What I believe he means that children are indoctrinated into a religion at a young age. Anything they hear is fact. By getting them to learn it so young they take it as gospel, no pun intended, and refuse to believe anything else in later life. There are exceptions obviously. By forcing them, it can be construed as child abuse.

Forcing them until they are old enough to know better(Teenaged years) is probably a good thing. Law is based of religon yet we religon abuse, does that mean Law is Child Abuse? No. Religon has taught us a lot of good in our lives. Sure, it has it bad moments with religous zealots but it has people who will help you out. When was the last time you saw an Athiest soup kitchen.

**Melissia**

Law is based of religon

Modern law is not based off religion in the USA.

**d-usa**

Well, only took 9 pages to go completely of-topic and make this a classic Dakka atheism/religion thread. 'twas nice while it lasted.

**rockerbikie**

Melissia wrote:
Law is based of religon
Modern law is not based off religion in the USA.

Not all laws but a lot of them are religon based. Australia has a lot of laws based on religion.

**sirlynchmob**

rockerbikie wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

What I believe he means that children are indoctrinated into a religion at a young age. Anything they hear is fact. By getting them to learn it so young they take it as gospel, no pun intended, and refuse to believe anything else in later life. There are exceptions obviously. By forcing them, it can be construed as child abuse.

Forcing them until they are old enough to know better(Teenaged years) is probably a good thing. Law is based of religon yet we religon abuse, does that mean Law is Child Abuse? No. Religon has taught us a lot of good in our lives. Sure, it has it bad moments with religous zealots but it has people who will help you out. When was the last time you saw an Athiest soup kitchen.

Its a great thing we don't have laws based on christianity. Most of their laws are so horrid even they don't want to acknowledge them. or are you advocating that children need to be taken to the river and stoned, and if you marry a woman and she wasn't a virgin she should be stoned, and that slavery is ok?

**biccat**

mattyrm wrote: Biccat, your a smart fella, surely you don't think that counts as "absurd" either?

You really don't think conflating religion with child abuse is "absurd"?

Do you think it would be absurd to conflate homosexuality with child abuse?

mattyrm wrote: I mean, you can disagree.. I think I do as well, as I wouldn't say it is abuse per say, but its definately not absurd to have that opinion. He gives many many logical reasons about how he came to this conclusion.

At the risk of raising the spectre of Godwin, lots of people have logical reasons why they reach absurd conclusions. As I said before, if what Hitler said about the Jews was correct, then the Holocaust was justified. But he started from a false premise. As does Dawkins. And that's what makes the position absurd.

mattyrm wrote: Anyway, as I said, I dont think you really believe it is "absurd" you just disagree with it. And that's fine, so do I, I think he is being a bit too strong with his argument.

If I'm wrong however and you do indeed think it is totally absurd, then, not only have you hugely gone down in my estimation, you have just lost an argument.

Sorry, it really is absurd. It's absurd because he's advocating for punishment of people based on the fact that they have religious beliefs and they want their children to have religious beliefs.

If you don't think it's absurd, what type of comment would rise to the level of absurdity? How about "atheists are immoral"?

sirlynchmob wrote:and quite a few religious bigots who think their book somehow gives them the right to tell others how to live their lives.

And if they every try to impose their religious beliefs on others, you'll see me standing beside you opposing them. Because like I said, tyranny is bad, even if done for noble reasons.

**Melissia**

rockerbikie wrote:Not all laws but a lot of them are religon based

I know a lot of people try to claim that laws restricting murder, theft, etc are based on religion, but that's just arrogance in the end.

**rockerbikie**

sirlynchmob wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
rockerbikie wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
biccat wrote:
mattyrm wrote:Name me one mainstream atheist view of Religion that is "absurd" please. I'm genuinely interested to hear the retort.

I'm pretty sure Dawkins argued that religion is child abuse.

Thats not absurd though, its truth.

/sigh So teaching Children morals through stories is wrong now. /clap

What I believe he means that children are indoctrinated into a religion at a young age. Anything they hear is fact. By getting them to learn it so young they take it as gospel, no pun intended, and refuse to believe anything else in later life. There are exceptions obviously. By forcing them, it can be construed as child abuse.

Forcing them until they are old enough to know better(Teenaged years) is probably a good thing. Law is based of religon yet we religon abuse, does that mean Law is Child Abuse? No. Religon has taught us a lot of good in our lives. Sure, it has it bad moments with religous zealots but it has people who will help you out. When was the last time you saw an Athiest soup kitchen.

Its a great thing we don't have laws based on christianity. Most of their laws are so horrid even they don't want to acknowledge them. or are you advocating that children need to be taken to the river and stoned, and if you marry a woman and she wasn't a virgin she should be stoned, and that slavery is ok?

Within reason. /facepalm Also, by Christian standards that is a huge defiance of the 10 Commandments, so is treat someone how you like to be treated.