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This might explain why a certain someone has noticed that online copies of thier codexes have gone amiss, with scribd, and other pdf cites they are certainly harder to find.
Now Diet time for the wallets, time to lose weight.

To concur with "CHEEXSTA" I'm hoping as I buy each codex it will Auto update like "ARMY BUILDER" to stay current with the game and will reduce codex lag. Therefore the higher initial out lay/purchase price will support this software maintainance, or will it be part of a current WHITE DWARF subscription (Digital)

I believe this is the way of the future for the game, this codex lag sucks.

Zuul wrote:I'll never buy an ebook reader nor an apple product, so I'm not terribly excited by this.

+1. The nifty neat options are cool, but I'm a fan of dead trees.

Just to add to the why Apple?
The iPad makes up 68% of the tablet market. Kindle, 4%.
Source: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/05/apple-grabs-tablet-market-share-while-market-falls-off-a-cliff-for-first-quarter/

It's just the old computer games on Mac vs PC. Most companies didn't release it on the Mac because it wasn't worth the extra effort for a system that only had 10% of the market. Oh the irony of it all...

What ^ said.

It makes total sense to release this on ios first as they currently dominate the tablet market. Not releasing it on ios first would actually be the dumb idea in this case.

No matter how you slice it, this is a good move by GW. Is it too expensive? Maybe, but if it is to you then don't buy it. But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Not bothered with the Codex, but did by the painting guide to see how it was. Works absolutely fine on my ancient first-gen iPad.

pongo50 wrote:To concur with "CHEEXSTA" I'm hoping as I buy each codex it will Auto update like "ARMY BUILDER" to stay current...

Not to derail, but didn't/don't you have to pay Army Builder every couple of years to keep a subscription (otherwise updates used to stop updating as I recall).

If that's still the case, I can see GW adopting a subscription codex model. They already kind of have it since to stay current with many/most groups, you have to buy the latest codex.

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Just because a hobby takes up space does not mean that somebody cannot be mindful of how much space he takes up.

There is also the fact of carrying these books to the store when you play.

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I already play Malifaux and don't get nearly enough time in playing that game. Trying to get a game started that no one in my area plays is more energy than I have at the moment.

Hrm.. where to start. I suppose I'll start w/ this - this is actually a GOOD idea. It shows the customer base (us) that they are actively trying to stay in the curve when it comes to things tech-y, and it also shows that they're willing look in other directions with their books. Also, doing the trial (hopefully) run on the iOS is the logical thing to do, however, the reasons being that it has the highest marketshare for this type of thing are of secondary concern. The reason they're doing this on iOS, is because Apple has a beautiful programming language that makes this stuff incredibly easy to do. Sure, the iPad has the most marketshare, but lets be honest - the % of people in this hobby w/ an iPad is MAYBE 1% of total actual users. When was the last time you were @ your FLGS & somebody showed up w/ a tablet of any kind...?

Realistically, this is a solution to a set of problems that I - and the rest of you, tbh - DON'T have. "I have so much stuff to carry, the BRB, the codecies for all my armies & all their FAQ's, etc., etc." Solution - don't carry all that stuff. There's absolutely no reason that if you have multiple armies (most of us do obviously) that you have to take ALL of them & their required materials w/ you when you go play. But, when you do, be prepared to take that stuff w/ you. You can buy a decent backpack from Wal-Mart (or regional equivilent) for ~$15. If you're taking 5 - 7 books w/ you as I have seen people mention, then that means that you're probably carrying @ least that many armies too, so the backpack full of books is the last of your concerns. "I need to have a searchable interface for my rules." WHY? Do you not KNOW your relevent codex? Have you not sat on the toilet for hours on end (hopefully not consecutively ) and read your codex over & over & over & over..? If you have to look up a rule EVERY SINGLE TIME you play (someone mentioned a 'nid psychic power he could never find when he used it), than you have more problems than a digital copy of your codex will solve. Now, I understand someone may want to look @ a particular rule from time to time, or you may be using a new character/unit than you're used to & you might need to verify you have it right. Solution - tabs. Get some stick on tabs from the stationery section of your local all-in-one store & label your codex so these things can be easily found. And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

This idea, like I said, is great, but it needs MUCH refinement before it's of any real practical use to anyone here. For those of us who don't have a tablet (I'm guessing @ least 75% of the users here), I have serious doubts that this is going to make them run out & purchase one (I know I wont) and if GW is going to a digital only format, they're going to loose LOTS of business. Realistically, until tablets (of any variety) become the norm, this is all just grandstanding, to make them feel like they're 'doing us a favor' & moving into the digital age.

~Vryce

Vryce wrote:Hrm.. where to start. I suppose I'll start w/ this - this is actually a GOOD idea. It shows the customer base (us) that they are actively trying to stay in the curve when it comes to things tech-y, and it also shows that they're willing look in other directions with their books. Also, doing the trial (hopefully) run on the iOS is the logical thing to do, however, the reasons being that it has the highest marketshare for this type of thing are of secondary concern. The reason they're doing this on iOS, is because Apple has a beautiful programming language that makes this stuff incredibly easy to do. Sure, the iPad has the most marketshare, but lets be honest - the % of people in this hobby w/ an iPad is MAYBE 1% of total actual users. When was the last time you were @ your FLGS & somebody showed up w/ a tablet of any kind...?

I am a tablet user, but I never take it to my FLGS. My tabled has movies and music on it, why would I take it to my FLGS when I am there to play games? So the lack of iPads at your FLGS is not a very accurate indicator for tabled use by gamers IMO.

Vryce wrote:Realistically, this is a solution to a set of problems that I - and the rest of you, tbh - DON'T have. "I have so much stuff to carry, the BRB, the codecies for all my armies & all their FAQ's, etc., etc." Solution - don't carry all that stuff. There's absolutely no reason that if you have multiple armies (most of us do obviously) that you have to take ALL of them & their required materials w/ you when you go play. But, when you do, be prepared to take that stuff w/ you. You can buy a decent backpack from Wal-Mart (or regional equivilent) for ~$15. If you're taking 5 - 7 books w/ you as I have seen people mention, then that means that you're probably carrying @ least that many armies too, so the backpack full of books is the last of your concerns.

So what you are saying is "You already carry lots of stuff, who cares if you carry more?" Many people have books for armies that they don't own, maybe they want to look at the rules and units that an opponent is using or for pickup games. I was at a family reunion this weekend and it turns out one of my brothers that I hardly see plays 40K now. I didn't have my books with me, but I did have a PDF of my C:SM book on my laptop. Between that and Army Builder I was able to use a part of his C:CSM force as a proxy to play a pickup game.

Vryce wrote:"I need to have a searchable interface for my rules." WHY? Do you not KNOW your relevent codex? Have you not sat on the toilet for hours on end (hopefully not consecutively ) and read your codex over & over & over & over..? If you have to look up a rule EVERY SINGLE TIME you play (someone mentioned a 'nid psychic power he could never find when he used it), than you have more problems than a digital copy of your codex will solve. Now, I understand someone may want to look @ a particular rule from time to time, or you may be using a new character/unit than you're used to & you might need to verify you have it right. Solution - tabs. Get some stick on tabs from the stationery section of your local all-in-one store & label your codex so these things can be easily found. And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

Stick-on tabs don't solve the problem of people not wanting to carry every book out there.

As far as "don't you know your codex" goes: have you been so lucky that you never played anybody that doesn't know your codex and said "you are making that up, show me the rule"? The majority of my having to find a rule is for my opponent.

Vryce wrote:And to sum up the final point here - this digital media offers nothing necessary that you don't already have in the hard copy. I've never been in the middle of a game & thought "Man, It'd be GREAT now if I could look @ a 360 degree rotating photo of <insert model here>."

An earlier point that I made is that I don't think we will see how viable this product is until the first new rulebook or new codex. It is not a supplement to a hard copy, not in the format it is sold. I think during the next release, when people will decide "Do I want this as a hard copy OR do I want it digital", we will see how readily it is accepted.

Vryce wrote:This idea, like I said, is great, but it needs MUCH refinement before it's of any real practical use to anyone here. For those of us who don't have a tablet (I'm guessing @ least 75% of the users here), I have serious doubts that this is going to make them run out & purchase one (I know I wont) and if GW is going to a digital only format, they're going to loose LOTS of business. Realistically, until tablets (of any variety) become the norm, this is all just grandstanding, to make them feel like they're 'doing us a favor' & moving into the digital age.
~Vryce

Ozymandias wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I already play Malifaux and don't get nearly enough time in playing that game. Trying to get a game started that no one in my area plays is more energy than I have at the moment.

I know what you mean, it does seem like a lot of replies on the forum have subtle advertising placed in them.

And speaking of reactions, did you know in Infinity you can 'react' to another model's actions during their turn? It's really an elegant mechanic as it....

Just joking, I don't play Infinity .



I'll have to see their future electronic endeavors before I can make an adequate judgement. However, it doesn't appear you can build a roster (or bluetooth it) which is a real shame.

I'm in love with this idea. I just added Quartermaster to my iPad last week and now, assuming the 6th edition rulebook and the right codexes are released soon, I will only be bringing my iPad with me to games from now on.

My biggest hope is that this will solve the 5-7 year drought between models for some armies. Usually models are released only when they can get new rules. As shown by the Storm Talon, they can now push out new rules to players who have the books whenever they want to. No need to wait until the next version of the army book. That's marvelous.

BTW - when I downloaded it on the weekend, it was the 31st most popular book in iBooks Canada!

EDIT - One further thought. Anyone who thinks GW isn't raising the price of books for 6th edition and making them hardcover is not paying attention. I'm sure the hardcovers are going to be the same price as the digital.

I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:

spaceelf wrote:

Ozymandias wrote: But for those of us who don't want the physical book (for me it's storage reasons), then this is a great alternative and more than just a pdf copy.

Wow, I can see that war gaming can be a space consuming hobby, but if you don't even have room for books then you are just about done. Try Infinity, 10 miniatures and a free pdf rulebook.

Is there an Infinity missionary program that goes through every thread and tries to convert everyone to that game? Seriously, it doesn't matter what the thread is about but I see two or three posts (from different people no less), that says, "You don't like x? You should try Infinity because of y!" I'm all for pushing a game you guys like, but seriously dudes.

I know what you mean, it does seem like a lot of replies on the forum have subtle advertising placed in them.

And speaking of reactions, did you know in Infinity you can 'react' to another model's actions during their turn? It's really an elegant mechanic as it....

Just joking, I don't play Infinity .

Hohoho

But it is an amazing game. Those of us who have played it and 'seen the light' feel the need to proselytise to others..

Anyway, on topic definitely a great move by GW! I'm more than a little pleasantly surprised.

Davor wrote:I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

I imagine it isn't as simple as altering a PDF. If you are that worried about someone cheating like that, I wouldn't play against them.

But I would assume there is some protection from editing it. Heck, anytime you connect your ipad to charge it, it probably syncs up and updates it if it has been changed back to GW's version

For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

Davor wrote:I have a question. I dont know how this ipad thingy woks. How do i know it hasnt been altered so someone can cheat?

Anything digital can be messed with given enough skill, but this is a pretty closed format. And besides, the fact that a print version does exist makes it a worthless idea for someone to take the energy to try to make some cracked version, as it is going to be quickly identified.

You know it's a big deal when Yakface shows up to discuss it. He's like Uatu the Watcher of the Dakka universe.

(good review btw)

Thanks for the review, yakface. That's a pretty big bummer regarding the lack of an army building function.

So you can not build armies with this thing? That's pretty useless really. Is that maybe that's something they're working on in the future?

Seeing as how they (GW) have dipped their collective toes into iOs now, I wouldn't be surprised to see an army builder app appearing.
I would expect in-app purchases of new codecies too
This digital media move is a good thing for me.
I can see me going all interactive for rules and codecies now.

Why would anyone even possibly think that it would be a way to make lists?

iBooks and all other e-book formats are not office productivity suites and this is not an 'application'. Having links, embedded media and mouseovers is worlds apart from having an interactive editing program which does math. It is not an excel workbook.

GW can't win... it is either "GW sucks because they made something too advanced for basic PDFs" or "GW sucks because they didn't make the iBook advanced enough to be a full-fledge application."

yakface wrote:
For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

So you can not make a unit selection as they do in the sample video when he selects a dread, adds some options, and calls it Unit 1?

EDIT: In the video, it says "Army List" is Chapter 12.

This is a great move by GW, dipping their toes into the digital. age. I'll be watching what they do with it and definitely take the plunge at some point.

For the complainers, wow. Give someone a dollar, they complain it's not ten dollars. How many people have been blasting GW because they've taken so long to get on the digital bandwagon? They finally try it, and now you've just shifted gears. I am by no means a GW fanboy, but come on.

nkelsch wrote:Why would anyone even possibly think that it would be a way to make lists?
GW can't win... it is either "GW sucks because they made something too advanced for basic PDFs" or "GW sucks because they didn't make the iBook advanced enough to be a full-fledge application."

Holy snap, Sir Lancelot, relax. Most of us still like the digital direction GW is going; the comments about the lack of army builder are just questions and observations about a new product with which we're not yet totally familiar.

And the reason "GW can't win" has nothing to do with e-codices. They can't win because their prices are hilariously astronomical, their product line still has huge flaws (Finecast), and they're completely tone-deaf to their customer base.

The real question is, would you buy the iBook version of 6th edition or get the B?B when it comes out?

Breotan wrote:The real question is, would you buy the iBook version of 6th edition or get the B?B when it comes out?

Sadly, for some of us, the answer is both. Though, I lack anything that can use or purchase an iBook version, so I guess I can't do both (yet).

temprus wrote:

yakface wrote:
For anyone wondering what features are in or not in this new format, check out my detailed review here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/yakface%20Reviews%20the%20Digital%20Ultramarines%20Codex

Suffice to say, there is no army builder functionality here, this just an interactive version of the codex.

So you can not make a unit selection as they do in the sample video when he selects a dread, adds some options, and calls it Unit 1?

EDIT: In the video, it says "Army List" is Chapter 12.

Nope. He's just adding a note to the text.

You could try to ad-hoc an army list together this way (because notes do all show up in a summary page together), but it would be terrible...it would just be like writing a list by hand, only on a tablet. And plus, you'd only have one list available.

In short: no list building capability is in this ebook.

If they offered the BRB in a format without all the fluff and more like the AOBR rulebook, I would buy it in a heart beat.

If it is a huge book with tons of fluff... depends on how much I like the actual BRB. If it is easy to find rules, I will stick with that probably.