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DJano wrote:Sorry, I should rephrase. I know how to build an army with as many drones as possible, but I'm curious as if any of you experienced Tau generals can enlighten me as to whether it would be viable to run gun drone squads and stealth suits with gun drones and all of that fun stuff with the new rules. I know I would personally have more fun running an army like that and that's at very least half the battle, but would/could it be an army that is at all competitive?

Gun drone squads are very viable. I find that with the Fire Warriors now taking grenades and there now being reasons to take team leaders and BSF's that I no longer have the points for my piranha squadron but still have points for a gundrone squadron.
A Deep Striking Gundrone squadron supported with markerlights can be exceedingly effective as an objective denial unit, can do damage to rear armour 10, and can be a real problem for heavy weapon and artillery teams.

A Stealth Team of 3 Stealthsuits(One is a Teamleader)equipped with either, TA's and a hwdc on the Team leader, or just drone controllers on the entire team is effective and costs between 130-ish and 150-ish points. I just have a hard time sacrificing the slot that can be used for crisis suit fire power.

I recommend that you take only a single team each of the stealthsuits and gundrones. If you want more drones then I'd suggest attaching them to Fire Warrior teams, Crisis Teams and if you realy want more drones then skip the Hammerhead and take some sniper(stealth) drones.
I'm not saying that these units are super competitive, just that they are useful and can present a problem to opponents because they're tactics differ from the Tau norm.

Ovion wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:
I'm finding it worthwhile to equip small units of 6 fire warriors with EMP. It's like giving the squad a 6-shot antitank weapon with a potential range of up to 18"--something that fire warriors have always lacked. With EMP, a unit of fire warriors dug into cover can do area denial against vehicles in a way they couldn't before. Even a land raider will hesitate to go near them. Because the unit is small and cheap, you don't mind sacrificing it.

Incidentally, the small unit also benefits from a Shas'ui upgrade, since they make a lot of leadership tests.

EMP grenades on units of 12 fire warriors might be overkill in terms of cost. I haven't tried it out yet. They could kill the crap out of any vehicles that came near them, but 36 points is pretty steep.

To be honest, I think squads of 8 for 104 will probably be the best middle-graound, with improved killiness+ threat range, with being a reasonable price.

^This!

Squads of 8 Fire Warriors or 8 Fire Warriors+1 gundrone have been the magic number. I run Team Leaders with BSFs and hwdc if they have pulse rifles and just hwdc if they have carbines.
(BTW, don't throw away your carbines, got a feeling that they may get the Blind rule or some other goodness in the next 'Dex.)

Tun_Tau wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but if you equip a shas'ui with EMP the whole squad gets it and you dont have to pay the individual price. (FAQ under grey knights i think at one time about a char equiped with grenades making the whole squad have them, not sure it applies to all codex)

Unfortunately, only the Team Leader would have the EMP Grenades. This means only one grenade on the assault.
Remember that EMP's can not be thrown until they get faqed as having the Haywire rule.

What suit configurations has everyone been using?

I'm still using my old standbys, Centurion(Cib/Plasma/TA) Shas'el, a squad of Bladestorms(BC/Plasma), a Squad of Fireknives(Plasma/Missile), and a squad of Deathrains(TL missile with BSF).

The Commander with the Bladestorms and hunt troops, the Deathrains hunt MCs, Tanks, and anything I can ID with them, and the Fireknives support whatever team needs it the most.


I used this setup in most of 5th and in a couple games in 6th with pretty decent success.

Yes, I never thought of that, thanks!

The reason I often drop a Stealth Squad and a HQ+bodyguards together is to pop a transport (lets say a land raider full of termies) with the Stealth Suit Fusion, then rapid fire what comes out with Plasma and Fusion. IF the Nators aren't TH/SS, ie Lightning Claws, statisticaly you cannot fail to mow them down using 6 Plasma shots & three Fusion shots (each battlesuit has a Plasma Rifle & a Fusion Blaster, the two bodyguards a Targetting Array so are BS5). The Failsafe is there as a precaution, in case they are still in charge range. Bearing in mind I haven't played Tau in 6th yet, so I don't know what works and what dosent, so the Detonator might not be as important now.

The Failsafe is for those times you get assaulted by a 30-man strong Ork Blob. You will lose due to weightof attacks, and a S8 Pie plate for them when they win is a bonus

I just realized something else about Tau piranhas.

Because of the 6E rules they can no longer pull the trick where they zoom up and contest an objective in the late game.\

But their drones can contest.

You have to plan ahead a turn to disembark the drones after moving 6", but the bigger disembark zone and the 30" fast skimmer move means they can pretty much get anywhere on the table in 2 turns.

I've been seeng a lot of threadss asking for basic Tau tactics. I think it is time that we start discussing the basics and how they have changed with the new ruleset.

Things like what Flavius Infernus noticed with the Piranhas and the Gundrones. There is a greater need to think several moves ahead in this edition and the game has become more fluid.
To deal with this fluidity I think many Tau players are going to have to adapt their tactics.

Many of us have been influenced by the hunter tactics described in the Tau fluff. The principles of the Kauyon and Mont'ka are still good clues as to how to play the Tau but the rules of the past several editions may have bread in some habits that will be problems in 5th.

Let me explain:

When dealing with concept of hunters and traps, there will be a tendency by Tau players to attempt to create a static trap point. We are going to have to abandon that concept and work for fluid trap points that reveal themselves every turn.

What I mean is that instead of planning to hit your opponent at a specific point on turn 3, that you will find that your bait unit has changed from one turn to the next and that you will use mobility to neutralize threats and to open fire lanes to new priority targets.

Now doing this will require some subtlety. Think Chess, where you work towards the suprise check or checkmate. Your opponent sees nothing then move one unit and suddenly he loses a vital unit.
Also, don't hesitate on using Jedi Mind tricks and misleading body language. I am not saying to lie, When your opponent asks a direct question then answer truthfully. I am saying that if you can position your forces and manage to look more concerned about one unit over your others that you canlead your opponent to making poor targeting choices. This tactic is called playing the player rather than playing his army.

Will post more later. Look forward to your feedback, tactics and ideas.

Later

focusedfire wrote:When dealing with concept of hunters and traps, there will be a tendency by Tau players to attempt to create a static trap point. We are going to have to abandon that concept and work for fluid trap points that reveal themselves every turn.

What I mean is that instead of planning to hit your opponent at a specific point on turn 3, that you will find that your bait unit has changed from one turn to the next and that you will use mobility to neutralize threats and to open fire lanes to new priority targets.

Now doing this will require some subtlety. Think Chess, where you work towards the suprise check or checkmate. Your opponent sees nothing then move one unit and suddenly he loses a vital unit.
Also, don't hesitate on using Jedi Mind tricks and misleading body language. I am not saying to lie, When your opponent asks a direct question then answer truthfully. I am saying that if you can position your forces and manage to look more concerned about one unit over your others that you canlead your opponent to making poor targeting choices. This tactic is called playing the player rather than playing his army.

This I completely agree with. Moving your troops to mask your true objective is an important task to follow yet difficult to learn how to execute properly. I may try to batrep my next game that talks through my goals when doing stuff like this. I'm no expert, but I can help put people on the right track of understanding the basics.

But the bigger, more challenging half of the coin is picking up on your opponent's moves. What are they trying to do? It's easy to look too deep into it, but not looking at the whole picture can cost you valuable units. I know my last game I got a bit too confident and didn't look at my opponent's entire picture. Suddenly I had an enemy squad deep striking behind my broadside team and got them wiped out. Granted, he overextended with that and both teams that deep struck behind my lines were wiped out with sheer amounts of firepower from my troops but it stuck with me because it could have been worse (thankfully no assaulting out of reserves!)

On a unit tactics topic, I've been toying with the idea of rail rifles for pathfinders. I know it drops the possibility of markerlights, but what I'm gaining is a rifle that ignores armor of MEQ units...as well as a free target lock that currently does nothing. I wouldn't be able to split my fire, but I would be able to focus a tremendous amount of firepower onto one unit by filling out the unit with regular pathfinders to supplement subsequent squads firing into it. Thoughts?

I used to run rail-rifles on my pathfinders, but I find them not as useful now that they can't split fire. Sure they are awesome weapons, but not always suited to shooting at what you are trying to mark up. And they were an easy item to exchange for sensor spines.

I was talking to my local GW manager the other day about the changes to Tau with the new rules. It eventually got onto what we expect to see in the new codex when it eventually comes out.

He said he could see Target Locks coming back but granting the model equipped with it Precision Shots. 'Course this is completely just wishlisting but if that did happen then Railfinders and Sniper Drones would become amazing snipers against MEQs and below thanks to it's better wounding chance than a normal sniper rifle and always on AP value.

Isn't there a USR about splitting fire?

DakkaHammer wrote:Isn't there a USR about splitting fire?

Yes there is which is why I'm surprised target locks are now useless.

Is this a viable tactic:

a) Take 6 teams of 6-8 FW
b) Field our FW in 3 blocks (2 teams per block, across our deployment)
c) Have our teams mixed with each other in each block
d) If, and when, charged, fire off at max 32 S5 AP5 shots on overwatch


If so, would it be better with 3 teams per block, firing at max 48 S5 AP5 shots on overwatch

YotsubaSnake wrote:[On a unit tactics topic, I've been toying with the idea of rail rifles for pathfinders. I know it drops the possibility of markerlights, but what I'm gaining is a rifle that ignores armor of MEQ units...as well as a free target lock that currently does nothing. I wouldn't be able to split my fire, but I would be able to focus a tremendous amount of firepower onto one unit by filling out the unit with regular pathfinders to supplement subsequent squads firing into it. Thoughts?

First, thank both you and focused for the part that I edited out. I found the concept of working for a fluid turn by turn trap point somewhat enlightening.

Second, to answer your question about the Rail Rifles.
Either do it on a 3rd Pathfinder team(Keep it small) or leave the Hammerhead home and bring the Stealth/sniper drones. The Sniper drones lined out on the board edge with the drones slightly in front of the spotter are much more survivable than in the past.

HeadRipper wrote:Is this a viable tactic:

a) Take 6 teams of 6-8 FW
b) Field our FW in 3 blocks (2 teams per block, across our deployment)
c) Have our teams mixed with each other in each block
d) If, and when, charged, fire off at max 32 S5 AP5 shots on overwatch


If so, would it be better with 3 teams per block, firing at max 48 S5 AP5 shots on overwatch

I would go with 2 teams per block to lower the risk of a single assault wiping half your troops.

Also, when doing this, you can save points in the photon grenades and the drones. What I mean by this is that if you are interweaving two units to force disordered assaults then only one unit needs to have the photons. With the drones, If you are planing on using one of your Shas'ui to challenge the power weapon/high number of attacks character then leave that Shas'ui droneless.

Of course this is assuming that we can remain mobile enough while doing such and against the IG Ordinance it might be best to forget about the interweaving tactic. It is a trick best used on assault armies.

Now my question to you is what else will you put into this build?

My suggestions would be:
-Maybe a Devifish for each two troop units. The Tau vehicles come with stems that are the right height to allow them to be mobile cover.
-Your going to need some Crisis suits and Broadsides.
-After the suits&sides, points will be getting tight but that many fire warriors are going to need some markerlight support.



@All posters- Was wondering, "What do you guys think about putting a Guardian Defender Squad with a weapon platform and a warlock inside of an Aegis line?

My thought on this was to join a Fortune/Guide Farseer to the unit, Have the Farseer man the Icarus Lascannon and the Warlock shooting a BrightLance or Missile Launcher on the Weapon Platform.

My only questions about this are:
1- Can the Warlock man the Defenders Weapon Platform?
2-Does the Aegis gun emplacement=Artillery?
3-Or, do I have to use the Eldar Support Batteries to get the improved Warlock BS and the Artillery T7 goodness?

Any help on these questions will be appreciated. Thnx

There are a few good tacticas around on the use of devilfish as mobile cover. Do a search.

Captain Avatar wrote:
Second, to answer your question about the Rail Rifles.
Either do it on a 3rd Pathfinder team(Keep it small) or leave the Hammerhead home and bring the Stealth/sniper drones. The Sniper drones lined out on the board edge with the drones slightly in front of the spotter are much more survivable than in the past.

The reason why I ask is that I have a pirahna that's doing jack-all except rush in like a madman and quickly get blown up. Sure, it's soaking up fire but that's currently 80+ points for a decoy that gets blown up shortly after it comes out of reserves. It has yet to earn its points back so I'm wondering if I can improve that area. Rail Rifles would provide me with much more opportunity for recouping value, but they're so damn expensive. A decent team with rifles is much more than a lone kited out pirahna, I just feel they would be more survivable.

On tactics with rail rifes, could I fire on a target with the rifles + markerlight and, given that they have to take a pinning test from the rifles, use a markerlight to help them fail it? That would be ridiculous to slow down light and medium armored infantry squads. (leave the TEQ to the specalized weaponry)

YotsubaSnake wrote:

On tactics with rail rifes, could I fire on a target with the rifles + markerlight and, given that they have to take a pinning test from the rifles, use a markerlight to help them fail it? That would be ridiculous to slow down light and medium armored infantry squads. (leave the TEQ to the specalized weaponry)

That would only work from Networked Markerlights from the same unit (so Marker Drones) or Markerlight hits from a different unit. They couldn't use the Markerlight hits from the normal Pathfinders in their own unit.

WanderingMinstrel wrote:There are a few good tacticas around on the use of devilfish as mobile cover. Do a search.

iI assume you mean the sea turtle tactic of moving back and forth in a triangle format while moving your fire warriors down center.

In other news iv noticed that even though there is less cover and weaker vehicles I find it still important to take marker lights, at the least to strip jink saves then raise BS. Though I haven’t used it for leadership yet

Been a while, so I thought I'd ask: Kroot shapers: still not worth taking?

tiberius183 wrote:Been a while, so I thought I'd ask: Kroot shapers: still not worth taking?

Nope...still overcosted for marginal benefit.

I would imagine there'd be a minor additional benefit in that they could issue / accept challenges, but yes - it's still 21pts for the grand total of no real benefit.

If the 6+ was automatically confered to the squad when you bought the shaper, It'd be worth it... but as is...

The number of times I have rolled an 8 for my Kroot's LD... To me it makes the shaper worth it.

I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

guys i got :
1) 3 crysis ( 1 is the hq)
2)1 Etherial
3)12 kroot
4)24 Fire wariors
5)sniper them ( btw they are very usefull still)
6)1 delfish
and im planing to buy and 1 broadside

but what else? im thinking of taking Eldar whith farseer , but i dont know what else ( as i dont know nothing good for Eldar)
Or is better to take more Tau units?and if yes what type?
and one last thing : is in my curent army Aegis defence whoth?

IHateNids wrote:I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

Kroot are S4.

DakkaHammer wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

Kroot are S4.

Ok, I thought they were S3, but that is just the hounds isn't it?

IHateNids wrote:

DakkaHammer wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

Kroot are S4.

Ok, I thought they were S3, but that is just the hounds isn't it?

Hounds are S4 too. Point for point Hounds are better than normal kroot as they cost 1 point less and are I5.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Spoiler:

IHateNids wrote:

DakkaHammer wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

Kroot are S4.

Ok, I thought they were S3, but that is just the hounds isn't it?

Hounds are S4 too. Point for point Hounds are better than normal kroot as they cost 1 point less and are I5.

I don't have any hounds, would you recommend getting some?

IHateNids wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

Spoiler:

IHateNids wrote:

DakkaHammer wrote:

IHateNids wrote:I thought with the new challenges, it might be worth it. 5 attacks will make a mess of most MEQ, even though it is 5+ to wound

Kroot are S4.

Ok, I thought they were S3, but that is just the hounds isn't it?

Hounds are S4 too. Point for point Hounds are better than normal kroot as they cost 1 point less and are I5.

I don't have any hounds, would you recommend getting some?

If you use Kroot often then I would recommend getting some Hounds. It's all the strengths of a normal kroot mercenary but the advantage of getting to strike before I4 units like Marines, which can reduce the number of attacks coming back your way, which for T3 no save models is quite important.

I'll look into it. How about fielding Kroot squads of just hounds? (I dont have my dex on me atm so cant check if this is legal or not)

Would be interesting if you could do hounds + a shaper, but as it is the Kroot Unit comp =
Kroot: 7pts per, 10-20 (One can be made a Shaper)
Kroot Hound: 6pts per, 0-12
Krootox Rider: 35pts per, 0-3

Infact, having it as a default of buy 1 Shaper, then choose a number of Kroot / Hounds instead of a mix would be nice...

Has anyone tried using Krootox riders yet? With the changes to Rapid Fire the Kroot Gun is actually useful now as it's basically a Autocannon at up to 24" and still able to threaten light vehicles up to 48".

Not to mention it has 3 wounds so it's harder to snipe out of a unit than other heavy weapons in squads.

A sniper getting two sixes (1 to hit and 1 to wound) = 1 dead marine carrying a missile launcher. With a 4 or 5 to wound it's still a 1/3rd chance of that missile launcher ending up dead.

Against a krootox either situation is 2W left on our autocannon, try again next time.