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 Kavish wrote:
It's times like this I'm glad to play assaulty armies. If the Necrons want the objectives they're going to have to move forward. Which makes it easier to charge them and score a sweeping advance. Grey hunters with ccw (or assault marines or whatever your armies equivalent) can do it just fine. Just avoid the unit with the res orb and the wraiths. You'll need something beefier for that.

10x ASM do ~1.7 wounds on the charge to Immortals who aren't in a decurion (A fair comparison since ASM are 17 ppm and so are Immortals). If they are in a reclamation legion, that drops to 1.29. Immortals will do ~
0.7 to 0.8 of a wound in return, leaving you testing on ld9 if at all. If the ASM don't break and run them down on the charge, then they almost never will, considering that one they're locked in combat, it's ~0.8 wounds for the ASM and the same 0.7-0.8 for the crons.

Since the crons in a decurion are relentless, they can charge the ASM and reliably win combat, but you're marines, so you don't care.

CSM are doubly screwed (as usual) since they aren't pseudo fearless and if they're beat (and they have lower Ld thn the crons too), not only can they be run down, even if they get away, they don't automatically rally, and if they do rally, they're firing snap shots and can't charge. The only thing they have going for them here is that the ASM equivalent are raptors, and they come stock with fear, so there is the 10% chance that they're hitting on 3's and being hit on 5's, but a 10% chance to mabye have +1 combat res against a ld 10 unit doesn't exactly strike me as awesome.

Also, just how the hell are you meant to avoid wraiths? They're either dead or charging something turn 2 for the most part, and they're usually charging whatever they want to charge and you often don't have much choice in the matter.

 darthdaddy wrote:
I don't understand this mentality. Give me the toughest list from any army and let me have a swing at them. If I loose at least I learned something and get to spend a few hours doing something I love.

And how many times is this fun? 1? 2? 5? 10? 50? 100? Eventally the only thing you learn is that your army can't beat theirs and that there's no point playing 'cause you both know the outcome before you deploy your models. Go on, play purge against Decuricrons, let me know how much you learn there and how fun it is after 20 games.

Martel732 wrote:
SW run over the entire Necron list with TWC.

Eeeeehhhh, I wouldn't quite say that. I played a 2v2 (Casual Necrons/Casual Skitarii vs. Decently strong SW and Nurgle Chaos marines). 2k points per person, and my Skitarii friend got virtually tabled, so he conceded and said "Good luck" to me. I then proceeded to almost table both of my opponents while having very little of my stuff die. And the SW player was using a big unit of TWC. Even my Warriors held them up for a turn or two, and when they were swept, it was a good thing because then I shot and killed all of them. They didn't do that much damage overall.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
SW run over the entire Necron list with TWC.

Eeeeehhhh, I wouldn't quite say that. I played a 2v2 (Casual Necrons/Casual Skitarii vs. Decently strong SW and Nurgle Chaos marines). 2k points per person, and my Skitarii friend got virtually tabled, so he conceded and said "Good luck" to me. I then proceeded to almost table both of my opponents while having very little of my stuff die. And the SW player was using a big unit of TWC. Even my Warriors held them up for a turn or two, and when they were swept, it was a good thing because then I shot and killed all of them. They didn't do that much damage overall.

I also wouldn't say "run over" as well. The TWC do very well against the wraiths (since they can ID them with the right loadout and have a similar profile, although they are slower) but necrons have enough shooting that the SW are still about even. SW really need allies or better long range weapons before I would consider them a top tier army.
Did I mention I really hate the SW codex now? It used to be perfect for Chaos Marines (mix and match gear, good CC abilities, Wulfen represent mutated/possessed warriors, scouts are perfect alpha legion fits, good powers for alpha legion, Lone Wolf can represent a champion of chaos or a mini-daemon, TWC make great daemon cav....). Now I'm forced to go loyalist, since a TWC star doesn't seem very alpha legion

One big weakness of Necrons you can take advantage of is their lack of range. Gauss, which is the vast majority of their army is 24". Anything with 36"+ range will have a nice advantage.

I think RP is fine. The one part I completely disagree with is about insta-kills. If a model is insta-killed (double the toughness), they should not receive any RP at all, not just -1 to the roll.

Akiasura wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
SW run over the entire Necron list with TWC.

Eeeeehhhh, I wouldn't quite say that. I played a 2v2 (Casual Necrons/Casual Skitarii vs. Decently strong SW and Nurgle Chaos marines). 2k points per person, and my Skitarii friend got virtually tabled, so he conceded and said "Good luck" to me. I then proceeded to almost table both of my opponents while having very little of my stuff die. And the SW player was using a big unit of TWC. Even my Warriors held them up for a turn or two, and when they were swept, it was a good thing because then I shot and killed all of them. They didn't do that much damage overall.

I also wouldn't say "run over" as well. The TWC do very well against the wraiths (since they can ID them with the right loadout and have a similar profile, although they are slower) but necrons have enough shooting that the SW are still about even. SW really need allies or better long range weapons before I would consider them a top tier army.
Did I mention I really hate the SW codex now? It used to be perfect for Chaos Marines (mix and match gear, good CC abilities, Wulfen represent mutated/possessed warriors, scouts are perfect alpha legion fits, good powers for alpha legion, Lone Wolf can represent a champion of chaos or a mini-daemon, TWC make great daemon cav....). Now I'm forced to go loyalist, since a TWC star doesn't seem very alpha legion

Hopefully the new Space Wolves codex heavily rumored to be coming in Feb will return the army to more than just Thundercav at the more competitive levels, thus allowing us poor Chaos players a decent stand-in book to get us by for the next 18-24 months before our own codex gets a re-do. (and hopefully we'll actually get a decent codex this time, instead of a steaming rodent turd 4.2ed codex! )


As for how stupidly resilient 'Crons are, especially within their Decurion?

They remind me a lot of trying to wrestle the old "Dickenhoff Guard" Vampire Counts lists from 7th ed fantasy...
You know, the list where it was pretty much impossible to avoid the super Deathstar of doom that had S5 Killing Blow attacks, that always hit on 2's, with 'Always Strikes First' AND would charge in the Magic phase thanks to Vanhel's Danse?!
Meanwhile those Ghoul & Zombies blocks would routinely add more models to their units each turn than you would be killing?!

Yep, fun times watching your opponent finish a game with more models than they started with, while your army was handed back to you on a platter!

Decurion Necrons play like the exact same brick wall in 40k. It's just not fun seeing only your stuff die, while your opponent might remove half a dozen models after 5+ turns of you throwing everything and the kitchen sink at them.

Please don't mention VC.
Let's keep this civil.

Experiment 626 wrote:


Hopefully the new Space Wolves codex heavily rumored to be coming in Feb will return the army to more than just Thundercav at the more competitive levels, thus allowing us poor Chaos players a decent stand-in book to get us by for the next 18-24 months before our own codex gets a re-do. (and hopefully we'll actually get a decent codex this time, instead of a steaming rodent turd 4.2ed codex! )

Wait what? Space Wolves getting a new codex already? Say what you want about Space Wolves in 7th Edition but at least they aren't ORKS! If GW starts going back and re-doing 7th Edition Codexes and doesn't START with the codex that they gakked the crap out of first I'll be quite annoyed.

When 7th Edition Orks came out all us Ork players were sort of like "Ehhh OK... well it's a new book let's see what we can do with it, but this doesn't look that great..." Then a couple months later Space Wolves dropped... vastly superior in just about every single way... and Ork players instantly pretty much knew this would be a trend, and we'd gotten shafted badly.

BUT we can still laugh at Space Wolves on the model front, because we got some awesome cool walkers, Flash Gitz, and Meganobz. You guys got Santa Claus and a flying...

Murrdox wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:


Hopefully the new Space Wolves codex heavily rumored to be coming in Feb will return the army to more than just Thundercav at the more competitive levels, thus allowing us poor Chaos players a decent stand-in book to get us by for the next 18-24 months before our own codex gets a re-do. (and hopefully we'll actually get a decent codex this time, instead of a steaming rodent turd 4.2ed codex! )

Wait what? Space Wolves getting a new codex already? Say what you want about Space Wolves in 7th Edition but at least they aren't ORKS! If GW starts going back and re-doing 7th Edition Codexes and doesn't START with the codex that they gakked the crap out of first I'll be quite annoyed.

When 7th Edition Orks came out all us Ork players were sort of like "Ehhh OK... well it's a new book let's see what we can do with it, but this doesn't look that great..." Then a couple months later Space Wolves dropped... vastly superior in just about every single way... and Ork players instantly pretty much knew this would be a trend, and we'd gotten shafted badly.

BUT we can still laugh at Space Wolves on the model front, because we got some awesome cool walkers, Flash Gitz, and Meganobz. You guys got Santa Claus and a flying...

At least Orks are a lot more likely to be updated this year... Chaos gets to wait until likely well into 2017 before we get toys. (which will likely still invariably just be Loyalists -1)

And we're still playing with a 6th edition codex AND our other one feels & reads like it's just a 4.1 version of the worst codex GW has ever produced!

Akiasura wrote:
Please don't mention VC.
Let's keep this civil.

Well, at least I didn't compare Decurion 'Crons to 7th ed Daemons of Chaos!

That would have been fine. Vampire Counts where vile, especially as everything they have caused/causes fear. Fear isnt so bad?
Im a Skaven player

Skaven, outside of assembling models, have no right to complain lol

Akiasura wrote:
Skaven, outside of assembling models, have no right to complain lol

My highest base LD is 7..... Have you ever seen what a unit of Skeletons/Zombies does to Clanrats?
But the models... Please no, not the many models *shudders* I still have yet to finish mine.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Skaven, outside of assembling models, have no right to complain lol

My highest base LD is 7..... Have you ever seen what a unit of Skeletons/Zombies does to Clanrats?
But the models... Please no, not the many models *shudders* I still have yet to finish mine.

But you did get the Hellpit Abomination. God that thing was nasty

 master of ordinance wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Skaven, outside of assembling models, have no right to complain lol

My highest base LD is 7..... Have you ever seen what a unit of Skeletons/Zombies does to Clanrats?
But the models... Please no, not the many models *shudders* I still have yet to finish mine.

I have never known the skave leadership because it never gets used. Skave are some of the most fearless troops in the game with all the modifiers. Even the slaves don't run much.
They might kill clan rats (use slaves!) but those friggin war machine teams are absurd. Ratling guns? Those str rifles??
Skaven are good. Just hope you enjoy painting 200 slaves

Akiasura wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Skaven, outside of assembling models, have no right to complain lol

My highest base LD is 7..... Have you ever seen what a unit of Skeletons/Zombies does to Clanrats?
But the models... Please no, not the many models *shudders* I still have yet to finish mine.

I have never known the skave leadership because it never gets used. Skave are some of the most fearless troops in the game with all the modifiers. Even the slaves don't run much.
They might kill clan rats (use slaves!) but those friggin war machine teams are absurd. Ratling guns? Those str rifles??
Skaven are good. Just hope you enjoy painting 200 slaves

Ah yes slaves, my 70+ slavebomb column has always been a bit f fun to use. Charge them in, have the opponent spend ages grinding them down and then when they finally break they do D3 plus stupid S3 hits

Now the weapon teams though, those vary. The Warpfire thrower was good, provided it didnt misfire and you could get it within range without being charged/shot (even with that 4+ it suffered) but if it did get within range.... Wow boy it was nasty That said if it misfired then there was a 2 in 3 chance that it would detonate.
The Ratling gun was also fun and if you were very lucky on the dice rolling it was murderous but by far the best was the Poisoned Wind Mortar. A weapon that made heavy armour players everywhere cry as it had a 24" range, could move and shoot and could fire indirectly, making it the only weapon team that did not have to choose between moving and shooting and also the only one that did not have to expose itself to the enemy. Oh and it has the longest range
The Jezzails are only good if taken in large number and as that meant spending £120 plus and they are very points heavy.

 Drasius wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
It's times like this I'm glad to play assaulty armies. If the Necrons want the objectives they're going to have to move forward. Which makes it easier to charge them and score a sweeping advance. Grey hunters with ccw (or assault marines or whatever your armies equivalent) can do it just fine. Just avoid the unit with the res orb and the wraiths. You'll need something beefier for that.

10x ASM do ~1.7 wounds on the charge to Immortals who aren't in a decurion (A fair comparison since ASM are 17 ppm and so are Immortals). If they are in a reclamation legion, that drops to 1.29. Immortals will do ~
0.7 to 0.8 of a wound in return, leaving you testing on ld9 if at all. If the ASM don't break and run them down on the charge, then they almost never will, considering that one they're locked in combat, it's ~0.8 wounds for the ASM and the same 0.7-0.8 for the crons.

Since the crons in a decurion are relentless, they can charge the ASM and reliably win combat, but you're marines, so you don't care.

CSM are doubly screwed (as usual) since they aren't pseudo fearless and if they're beat (and they have lower Ld thn the crons too), not only can they be run down, even if they get away, they don't automatically rally, and if they do rally, they're firing snap shots and can't charge. The only thing they have going for them here is that the ASM equivalent are raptors, and they come stock with fear, so there is the 10% chance that they're hitting on 3's and being hit on 5's, but a 10% chance to mabye have +1 combat res against a ld 10 unit doesn't exactly strike me as awesome.

Also, just how the hell are you meant to avoid wraiths? They're either dead or charging something turn 2 for the most part, and they're usually charging whatever they want to charge and you often don't have much choice in the matter.

 darthdaddy wrote:
I don't understand this mentality. Give me the toughest list from any army and let me have a swing at them. If I loose at least I learned something and get to spend a few hours doing something I love.

And how many times is this fun? 1? 2? 5? 10? 50? 100? Eventally the only thing you learn is that your army can't beat theirs and that there's no point playing 'cause you both know the outcome before you deploy your models. Go on, play purge against Decuricrons, let me know how much you learn there and how fun it is after 20 games.

With a wolf standard near by (perhaps a khorne banner for CSM) making Necrons run is quit probable. Plus there should be a power fist or something in there. Just comparing two unupgraded units in a vacuum is not valid because that's not how it goes down in game.

I meant avoid wraiths with those kinds of units. I usually put TWC in front of them. They will stay in combat for the rest of the game, but at least they aren't munching down all your other units.

 Kavish wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 Kavish wrote:
It's times like this I'm glad to play assaulty armies. If the Necrons want the objectives they're going to have to move forward. Which makes it easier to charge them and score a sweeping advance. Grey hunters with ccw (or assault marines or whatever your armies equivalent) can do it just fine. Just avoid the unit with the res orb and the wraiths. You'll need something beefier for that.

10x ASM do ~1.7 wounds on the charge to Immortals who aren't in a decurion (A fair comparison since ASM are 17 ppm and so are Immortals). If they are in a reclamation legion, that drops to 1.29. Immortals will do ~
0.7 to 0.8 of a wound in return, leaving you testing on ld9 if at all. If the ASM don't break and run them down on the charge, then they almost never will, considering that one they're locked in combat, it's ~0.8 wounds for the ASM and the same 0.7-0.8 for the crons.

Since the crons in a decurion are relentless, they can charge the ASM and reliably win combat, but you're marines, so you don't care.

CSM are doubly screwed (as usual) since they aren't pseudo fearless and if they're beat (and they have lower Ld thn the crons too), not only can they be run down, even if they get away, they don't automatically rally, and if they do rally, they're firing snap shots and can't charge. The only thing they have going for them here is that the ASM equivalent are raptors, and they come stock with fear, so there is the 10% chance that they're hitting on 3's and being hit on 5's, but a 10% chance to mabye have +1 combat res against a ld 10 unit doesn't exactly strike me as awesome.

Also, just how the hell are you meant to avoid wraiths? They're either dead or charging something turn 2 for the most part, and they're usually charging whatever they want to charge and you often don't have much choice in the matter.

 darthdaddy wrote:
I don't understand this mentality. Give me the toughest list from any army and let me have a swing at them. If I loose at least I learned something and get to spend a few hours doing something I love.

And how many times is this fun? 1? 2? 5? 10? 50? 100? Eventally the only thing you learn is that your army can't beat theirs and that there's no point playing 'cause you both know the outcome before you deploy your models. Go on, play purge against Decuricrons, let me know how much you learn there and how fun it is after 20 games.

With a wolf standard near by (perhaps a khorne banner for CSM) making Necrons run is quit probable. Plus there should be a power fist or something in there. Just comparing two unupgraded units in a vacuum is not valid because that's not how it goes down in game.

I meant avoid wraiths with those kinds of units. I usually put TWC in front of them. They will stay in combat for the rest of the game, but at least they aren't munching down all your other units.

No, it doesn't work in a vacuum, because nobody except skyhammer players takes ASM because they are terrible at their job and the same goes for the Raptors as the CSM equivalent.

And while ramming another indestructible CC unit of doom into the wraiths might work for SW, it doesn't work for the have nots, which is where the majority of the complaints are coming from.

I think Necrons are pretty well balanced. Sure they are tough to kill but that's their main strength. The Decurion has some pretty solid checks and balances. 4+ rp is great, yeah, but it comes with some pretty debilitating list limitations. If I could add heavy destroyers of wraiths in willy nilly it would be broken.

I'd trade my gause for a couple of heavy weapons any day. I Played a game against a space marine mech list the other day and got stepped on. I took as much anti tank as I possibly could, know what it was? 3 lousy stalkers and 40 Warriors. Just because you can glance anything on a 6 doesn't mean your smoking tanks left and right. Hoping for 6s isn't good strategy for anyone doing anything. But you say it's broken.

Getting swept is a real fear for all Necron units even some combat units like Lychguard or flayed ones. I had my Overlord and a unit of shieldguard in combat with a dreadnought, Overlord whiffed, lost 1 Lychguard, 1 bad ld test and bam. 450 points of "unkillable" crons off to the graveyard. Those of you who claim you kill 3 models a game.... Play more games? Not saying L2p, gak happens in dice games.

Necrons have zero psychic ability. Its a whole freaking phase now!.... A whole phase (the one where you add in all your force multipliers) that not only do we not get to participate in but one we are super susceptible to! Tau doesnt get to participate either but they get the best shooting in the game to compensate. Us getting a little extra durability doesn't seem unfair to me.

Cauthon wrote:
I think Necrons are pretty well balanced. Sure they are tough to kill but that's their main strength. The Decurion has some pretty solid checks and balances. 4+ rp is great, yeah, but it comes with some pretty debilitating list limitations. If I could add heavy destroyers of wraiths in willy nilly it would be broken.

While its true the formation itself doesn't allow it, the Decurion isn't one of the point intensive formations. You can easily fit wraiths and destroyers in your typical list with ease, and you commonly see it being done.

Cauthon wrote:

I'd trade my gause for a couple of heavy weapons any day.

People make poor decisions all the time
To be less tongue in cheek, heavy weapons are generally not taken by anyone unless they don't have better weapons. Special weapons or multiple shot weapons are the key to stripping hull points against most vehicles, and gauss is very good at this.

Cauthon wrote:

I Played a game against a space marine mech list the other day and got stepped on. I took as much anti tank as I possibly could, know what it was? 3 lousy stalkers and 40 Warriors.

What size game was this? Because that seems awfully light on points for 1850, and many units in the necron dex can take down tanks.
For the record, 40 warriors will do ~4.5 hullpoints at 24" and ~9 at 12". 40 warriors cost what, ~500 points? And can destroy 3 tanks a turn at rapid fire range while being incredibly tough in the decurion?
Coming from CSM, you aren't going to see me feeling bad for you.

To be fair, if necron do have a weakness, it's probably armor spam. In a tournament setting this rarely comes up, since eldar and marines (especially marines) delete tanks like it's no big deal. You will rarely see tanks (skimmers sure) in competitive lists.

Cauthon wrote:

Just because you can glance anything on a 6 doesn't mean your smoking tanks left and right. Hoping for 6s isn't good strategy for anyone doing anything. But you say it's broken.

It's because your basic incredibly tough infantry actually manages to do decent hull point damage, regardless of AV. If someone is spamming rhinos, sure it gets rough. Marines with PG do a lot better here.
If the enemy has AV 13, suddenly necrons become one of the best units for taking out tanks. I'd imagine at around 12 it breaks even, which is a pretty common value for armor.

Destroyers and wraiths also don't do bad against armor. But you don't really need anything beyond gauss spam for that role.

Just to counter this argument, terminators are considered poor because they will roll 1's eventually if you throw enough dice at them. The tanks when facing gauss have a similar problem...with 80 dice, you will roll enough 6's to delete tanks.

Cauthon wrote:

Getting swept is a real fear for all Necron units even some combat units like Lychguard or flayed ones.

It might be a fear but it's not a major concern for many of the units in the dex. They lose very few models and are LD 10 after all.
Lychguard and Flayed ones are very dangerous in CC and it normally takes a monster of a unit to run one down. Or a tactical mistake like engaging a unit that you can't hur-

Cauthon wrote:

I had my Overlord and a unit of shieldguard in combat with a dreadnought,

Oh.
For shieldguard, this isn't wise. You should have shot the dreadnought, used wraiths, destroyers, or any number of options. It's not like dreadnoughts are fast, just walk away.
Unless the Overlord is loaded for combat, but with shield guard it's still risky.

Cauthon wrote:

Overlord whiffed

Every attack with a ws? This is really bad luck.

Cauthon wrote:

lost 1 Lychguard,

Pretty normal, given a dread's combat profile. You probably got lucky here, it could have been 2.

Cauthon wrote:

1 bad ld test

Must be, you rolled a 10 on 2d6?

Cauthon wrote:

and bam. 450 points of "unkillable" crons off to the graveyard.

You must realize the odds of this are incredibly low, and it was a tactical blunder on your part as well.

Cauthon wrote:

Those of you who claim you kill 3 models a game.... Play more games? Not saying L2p, gak happens in dice games.

Okay, given your mention of dice happens...you'll understand why the above isn't something that commonly happens?

Cauthon wrote:

Necrons have zero psychic ability. Its a whole freaking phase now!.... A whole phase (the one where you add in all your force multipliers) that not only do we not get to participate in but one we are super susceptible to!

In what way are you more susceptible than Tau? Many attack powers check off of LD, and they have a lower LD value.
Tau also don't have psychic powers. They are still incredibly strong. Necrons get many of their force multipliers built into formations, unit choice, or wargear.

Cauthon wrote:

Tau doesnt get to participate either but they get the best shooting in the game to compensate. Us getting a little extra durability doesn't seem unfair to me.

It's not a little durability, it's terminator equivalent armor on a 13 point model if you take the formation. And the warrior has arguably a better gun!

I do feel bad for the armies that aren't any good right now. I totally get wanting to play your army but there definitely seems to be 2 different leagues of balance right now. I'm not trying to compare my abilities to anyone. I'm talking about what I've got to work with.

Yeah shield guard shouldn't be in with dreds but he had a mech list and my only warscythe in the list needs to be trying to kill mech. It doesnt matter what the probability is of my Overlord missing or me making saves on shieldguard. Different games means different things happen. I don't care what it says on your chart. I needed a play out of my Overlord and got swept. Its a dice game gak happens.

It's not really "my" chart, it's probability. What happened to you has an extremely low chance to happen, and while stuff does indeed happen, it doesn't really factor into determining the power level or balance of a unit.

If he spammed so much armor you couldn't deal with it, like a gladius strike force or something similar, I can understand that. If he spammed 9 dreads I guess I can see the challenge (kinda...I think your 40 warriors can deal with this given a few turns though). But necrons don't struggle with a few armored tanks, and rhinos aren't threatening. Razorbacks are...but that's a gladius thing.

You could say centurions are bad because a unit of guardsmen could all hit, roll 6's to wound, and the enemy could fail every save. It's incredibly unlikely to happen, but stuff does happen in a dice game.

It was 2 TAC lists, casual. I had a reclamation legion, judicator battalion and some Shield guard.

He had e venerable dreads, a sicaran, two predators, laz dev squad and some land speeders.

Wasn't nothing crazy for either of us. Just 2 regular lists out of 2 really good codex's who are balanced to each other. I'm sure your chaos could take either If Us if you saw us coming. I'm also sure that if you played either of our armies you could wipe the floor with both of us. Probably armed with your math charts.

I didn't take the JB because I knew he had a tank list and he didn't span armor because the thought I might struggle. We both walked in with a list and we threw dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
3 venerable dreds sorry

Cauthon wrote:
It was 2 TAC lists, casual. I had a reclamation legion, judicator battalion and some Shield guard.

He had e venerable dreads, a sicaran, two predators, laz dev squad and some land speeders.

Wasn't nothing crazy for either of us. Just 2 regular lists out of 2 really good codex's who are balanced to each other. I'm sure your chaos could take either If Us if you saw us coming. I'm also sure that if you played either of our armies you could wipe the floor with both of us. Probably armed with your math charts.

I didn't take the JB because I knew he had a tank list and he didn't span armor because the thought I might struggle. We both walked in with a list and we threw dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
3 venerable dreds sorry

Uh, math charts? It's a game involving d6's, you don't need a chart to know that failing a Ld 9 test on a 2d6 and missing all of your attacks is pretty low odds. If you do, sure bring a chart. You might find it helps.

Regardless, whatever you and your friend do is between you guys, but it has no bearing on a discussion about why people aren't thrilled when they play necrons. Or the strengths and weaknesses of the codex.

Wait what? Space Wolves getting a new codex already? Say what you want about Space Wolves in 7th Edition but at least they aren't ORKS! If GW starts going back and re-doing 7th Edition Codexes and doesn't START with the codex that they gakked the crap out of first I'll be quite annoyed.

When 7th Edition Orks came out all us Ork players were sort of like "Ehhh OK... well it's a new book let's see what we can do with it, but this doesn't look that great..." Then a couple months later Space Wolves dropped... vastly superior in just about every single way... and Ork players instantly pretty much knew this would be a trend, and we'd gotten shafted badly.

BUT we can still laugh at Space Wolves on the model front, because we got some awesome cool walkers, Flash Gitz, and Meganobz. You guys got Santa Claus and a flying...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/15 17:22:48

Thats how I played it out. I was super excited for our new codex,maybe they could fix the glaring problems with so much of our codex. Instead they nerfed us :(

Ghaz became a LoW that nobody has ever taken in a remotely competitive list....ever. Cybork body is now a joke and useless in all situations, unless you have 5 points left over and don't know what to do with it. Nob Bikers? seriously the one highlight of our last codex you went and Fethed up? On a related note, why are Nobz so bloody expensive?. Meganobz? very gimmicky and very easy to kill when targeted correctly, take out the transport and just watch them spend the rest of the game slowly marching up the board. Probably the biggest nerf is the Battlewagon, increased the cost, effectively took the deff Rolla out of the arsenal. Kill Kannonz are nice, but 30 points for a S7 AP3 rng 24 weapon kind of sucks. I could go on and on about how they nerfed our codex in so many different ways but I won't.

I am just hoping that the Ork Codex gets some loving, I have a horrible feeling that they will either get one right before 7th ends or be the whipping boy for 8th. Either way history has shown us that we will get screwed hard.

My point was my strengths and weaknesses are fine. Until compared to chaos and orks and everyone else wishing for a new codex.

I have strengths and weaknesses. You don't have many strengths right now. That doesn't make 4+ rp broken it means they should really upgrade your codex and give you your "Decurion style" formations.

My point is that the necrons strength and weaknesses are fine...if compared to the best armies in the game. And only those armies. The other armies struggle against them, and they aren't fun to play against.

Other armies have gotten recent formations (IG) that aren't anywhere near the necron dex. There is no guarantee armies will be given a certain power level or any other benefit.

Maybe you do not remember, but when the Ork, Chaos, DE, and many of the "older" codexes (some of these are only older by a few months...) were being released, everyone heralded them as GW going towards a balanced approach to the game. Then the OP army dropped. Then the next one. And people started again saying that GW is heading towards a new direction of balance, one that invalidates codexes just a year or two old at the time.

Point being, I don't think the new chaos dex will be up to par with necrons or eldar. I don't think the nid codex will have as many options as the eldar dex.


And let's not say "you". I own Necrons, Eldar, Tau, Marines, Orks, Nids, Chaos...I'm well aware of the power levels of the various armies, outside of some of the new ones (Harlies, Admech).

Gw never seems to know if it's zigging or zagging with the power lvls. It seems semi consistant to me since Necrons on, with a few things that make elder broken.

This thread was all about trashing about the 4+ rp and I feel it's unjustified. I'm sorry that there are so many armies out in the cold but gw seems to be sticking with their most recent trend of formations being the end all be all.

Do the first 4 armies on that list all have hard time with Necrons because you can't get through 4+ reanimate? Are you only approaching this from a chaos/ ork perspective?

I have a nid army too. I don't play it and cry because it's not any good right now. I really wish chaos and nids were really great. Hopefully they get a new dex with same due treatment.

Cauthon wrote:
Gw never seems to know if it's zigging or zagging with the power lvls. It seems semi consistant to me since Necrons on, with a few things that make elder broken.

Depends on how you feel about it. Skittari and DA aren't OP, but are still good, and came out after necrons. I would certainly rate them both under crons. KDK as well is good but not really as good as the necron dex.
Necrons were only released last year, which for 40k, is a very short time (a while back you might have seen 2 dexes, maybe 3 in an entire year at most for 40k).

But I agree there is no predicting GW and how they will treat the game.

Cauthon wrote:

This thread was all about trashing about the 4+ rp and I feel it's unjustified. I'm sorry that there are so many armies out in the cold but gw seems to be sticking with their most recent trend of formations being the end all be all.

For...a year. This is not really suggestive of a trend for 40k.
Many of us feel that the 4+ RP is too much, including some necron players. We, or me in particular, are simply disagreeing with you.

Cauthon wrote:

Do the first 4 armies on that list all have hard time with Necrons because you can't get through 4+ reanimate? Are you only approaching this from a chaos/ ork perspective?

All of my armies have a hard time getting through 4+ Reanimate. It's impossible to ignore.
I would say, out of all my armies, Marines surprisingly have the hardest time with it. Grav weapons don't influence RP rolls, so having them crop up, and wraiths in particular, make necrons one of my worst match ups. If I used the gladius strike force this would rapidly change, and necrons would be my easiest match up most likely.
My eldar army is most played, and they have more issues with Marines than necrons. Necrons are the second hardest, than tau.
Tau hate fighting necrons, but I don't spam Tides or Surges (I use 1 max and spam suits). The wraiths in particular make necrons impossible to deal with, and my guns do very little damage.
I don't do mirror matches as it seems absurdly boring.

Cauthon wrote:

I have a nid army too. I don't play it and cry because it's not any good right now. I really wish chaos and nids were really great. Hopefully they get a new dex with same due treatment.

I don't think anyone is really "crying", merely pointing out that they disagree with you.

I'll just sit in the corner here, eating paste, and the commissar will pat my head and say I'm a good little boy for resisting Khornate-level rage towards other codices.

Jokes aside, as an IG player, it's not decurion/RP that upsets me most. The RP on wraiths, and T5 wraiths were moderately painful to deal with, making vanilla LR's much less useful, but I can still *attempt* to counter with Pasknisher, what S10 I can manage to bring, or Ogryn/Bullgryn tar pit if all else fails. Lord help us if wraiths ever see T6...

The two most annoying things for me were actually: 1) Doom scythe beam's fuzzy rules and 2) CHARIOTS. Starting the beam directly forward in front of a doom scythe, then cutting it 120° to the right to hit 2 tanks "Oh, and I clipped the wing of your flyer there* got old very fast. And it's darned near impossible to kill an overlord with an invul and res orb when my opponent decides that the overlord will tank melta shots while las-fire rattles harmlessly off the CCB's hull. Factor in long movements, CC attacks in the movement phase and a warschythe, and it's RIP my back
Iines, my tanks, my infantry on objectives...

Decurion, I admit, is annoying. But it's not as bad as having an canny opponent who's smart enough to leave his legion units moving through ruins so that he'll always have 2 decent saves, even against S10 AP2 pie plates (>75% saves on average). Not even WAAC by any stretch. Just not stupid.

Commissar, I have recited the Litany of Condemnation of That One Codex. May I be go now? No? Alrighty, then.

The doom scythe doesn't shoot a beam anymore

"Oh, Necrons have no psychic defense, it's perfectly balanced!"

I'll go let the orks and DEldar know then shall I? I'm sure the Sisters will feel so much better about that too, given the abundance of 3++ T5 multi wound 12" moving death-on-a-stick. I have no doubt that KDK will also find this greatly reassuring.

That's not even counting the guard, who can't really effect anything offensively with their psychers, or the few crazies who play black templars.

Nobody cares that the tau don't have any psychers or psychic defense since they can an will shoot you off the board before it matters while it's the other extreme for 'crons, since even with psychic powers, nothing keels over anyway.

The best psychic witchfire (though cleansing flame and eldritch storm give it a run for it's money) is psychic shriek. Even if it goes off, even if you don't manage to roll a 6 and deny it, even if it hits, on average it does 1 wound, then you get your 4+++, so we're down to maybe, possibly doing a single wound. Heaven forfend that we target a unit with a invo save (wraiths for example), then you're doing roughly 0.3 wounds. It's also not like a unit that commonly comes with wraiths can take a 5 point upgrade to hand out adamantium will or anything is it?

Yeah, that'll definately fix the problem, plugging away with 1 wound every 3 rounds.

If you're meaning other armies can cast powers and buff themselves, then you don't really have that much less defense than any other army bar Eldar, Deamons or grey knights, and none of that makes it any more likely that we will be able to remove any of your models.