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 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
"These minis make no sense" argument is also invalid.

We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.

40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.

What's the point you're trying to make?

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
"These minis make no sense" argument is also invalid.

We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.

40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.

There are a fair few who object to santa and his wolf drawn sleigh. For its failings though it doesn't have the look of marbles slapped onto a torso. YMMV.

The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.

The Dark Eldar slave girls is far less ridiculous than these. They're dressed in reasonable slavegirl attire (if anything one can question the decision to have them at all and the quality of the sculpting of their faces, which is a bit rough if I recall correctly).

It's the naked (hah) cynisism of these Prodos figures* that's offensive to me. Not in the least the nudity as such.

*If indeed there do exist any miniatures

 Sinful Hero wrote:


What's the point you're trying to make?

The one you missed, apparently.

There are four distinct arguments in this thread.

One, the shrill caw of the PC crowd. See above as to what I think of that.

Two, people scared that they will somehow be seen as less cool for owning/fielding these, or afraid of ruffling their girlfriends/wives feathers. To them I say, you've already lost the battle.

Three, people who dislike the art style and/or quality. Horses for courses, of courses.

And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.

 Mr. Burning wrote: wrote:

The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.

There is a C in the name....its surrounding the R....its...kinda obviously there...We can do better than making fun of what is actually pretty good design on a name.

And...man..we have all seen much worse sculpts then these. The sculpts are not that bad.

Also..there are way worse things to be offended about. Dog fights or chines girls being sold into slavery etc etc. This is really minor. Good on Prodos for filling a niche that some people have been asking for years. I hope they sell very well and Prodos makes a ton of money so that they can fulfill all the outstanding avp orders. Good on you for coming into this thread WARZONE PEOPLE and defending your stuff.

I never understand why people are so eager for a company to fail when they are doing a thing they like. How does their miniatures affect your life in such a way that the first thing you can do is hope
They get sued by GW (THE COMPANY WE ALL PROFESS TO HATE!! because they are colossal donkey-caves to every other miniature company out there [see chapterhouse])
Go out of business (This is there job people..have some sympathy)
They all burn in hell.....because...sexual miniatures equal eternal condemnation? Raging heroes is gonna be surprised when they die....

All of those ideas were mentioned in this thread. Some more than once.

If you don't like the miniature....just don't buy it; Like I did with the wulfen which I think are very stupid looking. But if I made a post saying there dumb..it would be one post long....

And now back to the ranting

I'm pretty sure that the people pointing out the ridiculousness of these designs are quite happy doing the same with that horrible space wolf santa-sleigh. The wolf sleigh is nonsensical, and it does demean the 40k universe. It's suckyness doesn't make tit-marines any better of a concept.


Do you get the impression that people who think these sculpts are bad and are critisising them do so out of some misguided veneration of the 40k fluff?

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:


What's the point you're trying to make?

The one you missed, apparently.

There are four distinct arguments in this thread.

One, the shrill caw of the PC crowd. See above as to what I think of that.

Two, people scared that they will somehow be seen as less cool for owning/fielding these, or afraid of ruffling their girlfriends/wives feathers. To them I say, you've already lost the battle.

Three, people who dislike the art style and/or quality. Horses for courses, of courses.

And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.

Well said.....have an exalt.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.

If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.

To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.

Wow. The edginess is so sharp, my mind can't grasp it without being cut. You showed those PC SJW's what's what alright! Standing up for the man!

Or is that fighting the man? I lose track sometimes....

Can we please drop the PC/SJW thread? Save that for your Men's Rights rallies.
can't believe the Luddites of the 21st century have infected dakka as well.

I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.

And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.

 jorny wrote:
I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.

And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.

You've taken the words right out of my mouth..

 Artemis Black wrote:

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that these aren't even "models" but colored renders 'shopped onto pictures of bases?

Looks like a mixture of both to me, the Artemis (guess how happy I am about that ) is obviously a coloured render, probably the chaos bikes too, the porn marines look more like painted prints.

Oh my. Looking at them with greater scrutiny, I have to agree that the Artemis definitely has some kind of image manipulation going. The base image might be a physical model or the artwork/render for it. Disappointing. But, as noted, others certainly appear to be actual painted minis.

Yeah, again... There's no social justice warrioring(?) going on, but it does seem we've awoken the MRA, who've bravely shown up to fight against something that isn't actually here, in this thread.

I think some of you have your fedoras on too tightly...

No strawman will be left standing!

 rayphoton wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote: wrote:

The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.

There is a C in the name....its surrounding the R....its...kinda obviously there...We can do better than making fun of what is actually pretty good design on a name.


And now back to the ranting

Please. Its a poor attempt at something which is a fairly popular - maybe overused - design element.

I didn't realise that the reason I thought the models looked stupid was because of my hatred of sexism, I just thought that I thought they looked stupid. I'm so glad Olgerth Istaarn was here to explain that to me.

 plastictrees wrote:
No strawman will be left standing!

Edit: getting pointlessly carried away.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.

If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.

To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.

Remember when there were 500 articles about the crazy mens rights groups all trying to boycott Fury Road because of Furiosa, and it turned out to have been 1 bloke on a blog that nobody reads?

This is like the opposite of that. It seems you've brought your agenda to the wrong argument. Just copy/paste it into a text file or something and bust it out again the next time you see such horrible political correctness. Sooner or later it'll be relevant I'm sure.

 jorny wrote:
I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.

And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.

I think some people were actully slightly offended by the models, but it wasn't because of them being degrading to woman to anything like that. They were offended by the cynicism of prodos to create something so creatively devoid.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:

And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.

So people can't dislike particular silly models because GW makes other silly models?

Did that make any more sense in your head?

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
...
...

If you think playing with toy soldiers isn't cool, you are rather out of touch.

Wargaming has been used in the gritty spy thriller Quiller as a metaphor for the conflict between vicious killers.

Also by Peter Cushing, and Peter Jackson.

 Lockark wrote:

 jorny wrote:
I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.

And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.

I think some people were actully slightly offended by the models, but it wasn't because of them being degrading to woman to anything like that. They were offended by the cynicism of prodos to create something so creatively devoid.

Exactly this.

'Cynisism', and 'devoid of creativity' encapsulates my feelings quite well about these models.


It doesn't help that model lines like these, as long as they remain the norm rather than the exception of female representation, reinforce the outward appearance of miniature gaming as a non-inclusive boys-club.

Can I go on record as saying I 'am' offended that sexist dog gak like this still gets released by a reasonably large company?

And make no mistake, these 'are' sexist. 'Sexualised' would be sticking them in form fitting suits or giving them all blowouts and boob plate, 'sexist' is just removing the torso and butt armour, 3 ribs, and going 'Look, Boobs!'. See also childish and sad.

I don't find 'sexualised' miniatures a problem, we're all adults. I find nonsense like this, however, quite pathetic and an embarrassment to the hobby in general.

Well as controversial as these models are. I'm waiting for a scale comparison photo, amazed they missed that one.

Think these would do well on Kickstarter?

 RedSarge wrote:
Well as controversial as these models are. I'm waiting for a scale comparison photo, amazed they missed that one.

It's almost unheard of for miniature companies to put out scale comparisons until potential customers badger them about it a bunch of times. I've never understood it, since it's always the first and most persistent questions about every model line, so one would think the industry would have learned by now. It's similar to the unwritten rule that a miniature company should never supply a picture of the sprues or component that makes up the finished models.


In this particular case, I guess some of the models might not even exist in physical form, so that would explain the lack of comparasion pics I suppose.

 RedSarge wrote:
Well as controversial as these models are

Yeah... not really sure stupid design and someone outspokenly defending stupid due to personal hangups counts as "controversial."

 RedSarge wrote:
Think these would do well on Kickstarter?

Not sure if joking or blissfully unaware of Prodos's past on KS...

Well, it'll probably do well, you'll just never get all your stuff?

It will arrive for some, then it will arrive in massive waves at retailers first while others wait on their pledges.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If you think playing with toy soldiers isn't cool, you are rather out of touch.

Wargaming has been used in the gritty spy thriller Quiller as a metaphor for the conflict between vicious killers.

Also by Peter Cushing, and Peter Jackson.

One of Frankenheimer's best movies, Ronin, has a man painstakingly put together a 45mm diorama as background to 'real talk' about CIA.

We rogue government agents now, boys.

 Zywus wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the people pointing out the ridiculousness of these designs are quite happy doing the same with that horrible space wolf santa-sleigh. The wolf sleigh is nonsensical, and it does demean the 40k universe. It's suckyness doesn't make tit-marines any better of a concept.


Do you get the impression that people who think these sculpts are bad and are critisising them do so out of some misguided veneration of the 40k fluff?

As a case in point - the Santa Space Wolf is stupid.

*EDIT* Somewhere out there is a version being pulled by reindeer....

So is giving women terminator armor shoulders and legs, then hoping that a space bikini will protect her vitals....

Dumb, dumb, design.

And I, for one, have a fair number of topless female miniatures in my collection - PC has nothing to do with saying that a bad design is a bad design.

And these, my friends, are bad designs.

The Auld Grump