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 Runic wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Lets be real Runic, who've never been very critical of GW regardless of their actions.

I do not understand what you mean/are after with this. Does a persons standing somehow affect factually perceivable details, such as change in a companys behaviour? I can't even begin to imagine someone not seeing all the altered approaches they have taken compared to say, 1,5 years ago. Come on, it's obvious. I already articulated as clearly as possible, that I am simply stating that GW has made big changes, and most of them things that people have been asking for.

I refuse to be sidetracked. Continously repeating a correct statement hardly does anything. It doesn't change the reality of clearly perceivable changes made by the company, and it also doesn't change the opinion of someone who has made up their mind and refuse to acknowledge what is crystal clear. Therefore I have nothing more to add. Some see the changes, some don't/refuse to acknowledge them and that's pretty much that.

Sorry but making a face book page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now anymore than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

 Runic wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, there is much gaming happiness out there so I can afford to "take a break" from GW and see if they improve their situation to my liking at some later date.

I'd say there is not a more sensible and civil way to go about it. This might be a bit funny, but it's an internet forum and I feel like saying kudos for something this reasonable.

Thanks for the kind words.

If it were not for Fantasy Flight games, I would probably be trying to pound on GW to give me the "good" game I want/need/require... so I am no saint.
I do admit from your observation we do tend to see many strong words about people and companies to do with our hobby.
I think it stems from looking forward to hobby/play time after the work week and experiencing some disappointment due to rules or misunderstandings with other players.

Any whining/complaining from me in other postings is because having experienced 40k since 2nd edition I can see a multitude of means to tighten up balance a bit and still have GW sell those all important models.

Plus I tend to get upset when postings like this "I am done." is greeted with "Great! We didn't want you anyway!" which does not lead to a very inclusive community.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I don't know why people get their knickers in a twist when someone wants to burn their army.

It reminds me of when the PS4 launched and people would smash the newly purchased system in front of everyone lined-up.
A trolling of sorts?
Cutting off your nose to spite your face?
Showing how little an object of desire means to you in front of those who DO care?

I roll that behavior in with those who enjoy spreading unhappiness in the world for giggles.

Someone should be so kind to explain how the campaign model fixes the codex model and how.

With details, because I smell a bad smell.

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

This. I'm sure 50% of the comments on GW would be either "Suck my ****" or posting illicit pictures. A company doesn't want bad comments on it's Facebook? Ohhhh nooo!!

 Talizvar wrote:
Plus I tend to get upset when postings like this "I am done." is greeted with "Great! We didn't want you anyway!" which does not lead to a very inclusive community.

+1 to this

I would like to add, that usually when someone is quitting the hobby -- it's not because their army just got nurfed. That may be an excuse, but usually there is a long line of underlying currents and that's the trigger that broke the camels back.

 Runic wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:
Lets be real Runic, who've never been very critical of GW regardless of their actions.

I do not understand what you mean/are after with this. Does a persons standing somehow affect factually perceivable details, such as change in a companys behaviour? I can't even begin to imagine someone not seeing all the altered approaches they have taken compared to say, 1,5 years ago. Come on, it's obvious. I already articulated as clearly as possible, that I am simply stating that GW has made big changes, and most of them things that people have been asking for.

I refuse to be sidetracked. Continously repeating a correct statement hardly does anything. It doesn't change the reality of clearly perceivable changes made by the company, and it also doesn't change the opinion of someone who has made up their mind and refuse to acknowledge what is crystal clear. Therefore I have nothing more to add. Some see the changes, some don't/refuse to acknowledge them and that's pretty much that.

You have made a habit of defending GW regardless of their actions and you seem to get off on being condescending. Add those together and few will take your argument seriously regardless of whether you're right or wrong about the subject.

GW's recent behavior could imply a long term change. We simply don't know. What i can tell you is GW has used up almost all my trust with them. So it will take some time and more good actions on their part before I give them the benefit of the doubt again. For some fans it's already too late.

To the OP, I think Orks are pretty balanced for 30k, and fluffy too. Try giving that a shot? It's way more fun and balanced and got me back into the hobby after giving up on 40k over a year ago.

I get the OP's frustration here, the rules don't match the fluff with Orcs, and losing all the time begins to suck very quickly.I've just started a CSM warband, so it seems I'm also on a hiding to nothing as everyone here says they are currently a bit pants. So why bother? Why not?

I've only recently got back into painting 40K stuff. If the rules are really crap, I'll use older rules, it's not worth the anguish otherwise.

@Ace from Outer Space - You can play your CSM warband against my blood angels, or the OP's Orks, and have a great time

Fighting the Eldar with Orks can feel a little like trying to go up against Legolas in an LoTR movie. Yeah, I get it -- that doesn't make for much of a game.

The reality in 40k for people who actually play it is that if you want to play a weaker faction against one of the strongest ones, it's up to the players to sort it out. If that isn't acceptable as a starting point, 40k isn't the right game for you. That's neither in defense of nor attack on GW's way of doing things; it's just the reality for the perceivable future.

Personally? I don't mind at all, because it's not like a computer game where the parameters (or rules) are fixed. It's a tabletop game where my opponent is going to be 3 feet away from me, and either he or she is someone whom I may agree on an enjoyable game with, or they aren't someone I want to play a game with anyways.

@Crimson Devil - Nahhhhh.... I'm the one who tends to defend most of what GW does

Mostly because when I look online at forums, a huge percentage of the people who attack GW do so because they don't like the price of the models or GW's attitude towards them.

From my perspective, the price of the models are fine as an absolute dollar amount, in terms of how much enjoyment I derive per dollar, and they are also fine when compared to the price of alternative, comparable collections like ones by Privateer Press. Again, just my perspective, I have never felt that GW didn't care about me (quite to the contrary), but frankly, all I really need out of a gaming company to give them my money is a really awesome models, decent customer service, and an enjoyable game.

In a similar way, I'll play a MMORPG with awesome graphics and mediocre gameplay, or one with mediocre graphics and awesome gameplay, and enjoy both. If the company falls short of my expectations, I'm not going to bash them -- I'll just go spend my time on something else, and if they come out with something I like in the future, maybe I'll buy that. The computer game isn't my entire life, so I won't scream that my 10,000 hour elvish hero is now a waste of my life and that I hate the company forever. I just look at it as, I've enjoyed 10,000 hours, and now, time to move to something else.

I get that some other people have different tabletop gaming priorities than me -- to me, the models are absolutely the most important thing, and the lore, second -- and that they, like the OP, are just done with GW, because what they want they haven't been able to get out of GW for a long time. Really, for these people, NOTHING, GW could do would repair that relationship. What GW is trying to do is make people who are receptive to their products and who like their games and models a little happier, and to that end, I think what they have been doing recently is a net positive. It should result in a lower rate of attrition of players to other games, and some of the initiatives (like more boardgames or build+paint sets) may even result in some new customers.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

This. I'm sure 50% of the comments on GW would be either "Suck my ****" or posting illicit pictures. A company doesn't want bad comments on it's Facebook? Ohhhh nooo!!

Well if they hadn't mishandled their long term customers so atrociously they wouldn't be faced with such hostility in the first place, they burnt the bridges not the customers.

If they ever hope to get out of this massive hole they dug themselves they need to eat some crow, better would be an apology.

Gamers have long memories ex GW customers won't forget how they were treated just because they made a face book page.

 Talys wrote:

@Crimson Devil - Nahhhhh.... I'm the one who tends to defend most of what GW does

Yes you are one of GW's staunchest defenders and I disagree with you on a lot things. I've never seen you be a deliberate dick to anybody. Exasperating as all hell, yes. But never rude.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Byte wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
To the OP: You know, I'm kind of with you. Earlier this year I went through a phase of wanting to get back into 40k, so much. I loved my 7th edition Necron codex, and wanted to start expanding my collection by a ton. I started painting a lot of my stuff, trying new lists, ext.

Then, of course, my morale starts to fall again. Another supplement for Imperial ponies with more psychic powers they don't need. Eldar and Imperials getting more stuff from Forgeworld, while Necrons remain in 5th edition as far as Forgeworld is concerned (and all of that stuff is pretty bad now. Definitely not worth the price). Tau getting, what, 2 or so supplements? The Ork supplement that was a joke, as well as the Daemon one. I'm still waiting on a Necron supplement.

Then, to further add to it, we have Death from the Skies. Two factions that either A. Have plenty of fliers (Orks) or B. Have really, really good Fliers and formations (Space Marines) both get another model that they'll try to push. Then, you have bloated rules added to a bloated game, at the cost of another 60 bucks.

Then, of course, they finally release an FAQ. Granted, some good came out of it (people can stop whining about Praetorians). But, Ghost Arks are useless and Conclave got an unnecessary nerf.

I'm sorry, but, what's keeping me into this game? Everyone at my store now has 1 or more Imperial Knights, or if their xenos, 2-3 Wraithknights/Stormsurges. We even have a few new people who seemed cool until they dropped Triptide + Doublesurge on the table. Meanwhile, I get to remember the times when I had a GC.

Seriously, though. Every day I grow closer to shelving my models again for awhile. X-wing has proven to be a lot more entertaining.

The 40K experience is primarily based on your opponent pool. If your a GT player, its min/max and face raping. Local meta may have "that guy" or group of guys. Or Moneyhammer. Exploitation/internet/cheese meta. Fluffhammer. You have to find a game that fits your local meta.

@krodarklorr: Come play with us. If someone brought a stupid build the opponent or opponents would be given plenty of heads up. Not to say we have a no cheese zone but your won't have to face it as a "pick up" scenario, i.e. invisible Knights are frowned upon. To that point we have 3 ork players and 2 CSM players that have no problem winning games. Necrons still have strong kung-fu in our meta(undefeated in our escalation league).

Not a lot of internet builds in our club. Tournament style play is for tournaments and glory hounds. There is only war here...

We play X-wing and Armada as well.

To the OP- If your looking for a auto-win button with Orks, your not getting it. Play Mealstrom, use Ghaz, use allies, stop playing WAAC players. Start asking your opponents to let you plus up your army points wise. Find the/a way to fun. Forge your narrative harder. Or don't, GW isn't going to fix it.

Heck, I'd love to find a new gaming group to play with. Even my X-wing group has become more along the lines of too competitive for my tastes.

I always find there are multiple sides to any story. This gaming club that Krodorklorr is talking about...it doesn't have one...single tournament player in it. There is maybe one guy with some Tau that admits hes pretty competitive, but even he is very easy to get along with and by no means a douche bag. Other than that, its a total mixed bag of all that GW has to offer. One thing that EVERY table seems to have..is plenty of laughter and good times.
Krokodorklorr may not have experience this, but honestly, considering that I have seen him damn near go off the deep end on a rant fest when he loses, I can see why he has problems getting into a game. When his Decurion detachment was nigh unstoppable under the rules at the time, there was no complaining.
Several members of that gaming club are members here, and seeing as how none of them are the douchebags that they are being made out to be, the didn't feel the need ro reply. I did, simply because there are other gamers from our local area they may end up with a poor impression. All gamers, regardless of experience, army, or play style are welcome. There really is only two unwritten rules at our shop:
1.Dont be a bitch when you lose.
2 Don't be a dick when you win.

 Talys wrote:
Mostly because when I look online at forums, a huge percentage of the people who attack GW do so because they don't like the price of the models or GW's attitude towards them.

I hear a few complaints of price but there is typically some means of shopping around and mitigating the cost.
GW's corporate "attitude" is certainly interesting but is so impersonal it is hard to get too upset unless really set on getting their attention.
Do not forgot those who remember the "bygone" days when "balance" seemed to be a game design target.
I was a modeler before I was into tabletop gaming so I can understand the "models first" viewpoint and happily for you: that is GW's present target audience.
What kept me playing 40k at first was that it was a reasonably complex game, with lots of stories fleshing out that universe.
It seemed to promise something much like the Napoleonic tabletop battles in a science fiction setting.
So from around 6th to 7th edition it just seemed too much for the completionist like me to keep up on and balance issues = "broken" to me.
<snip>

I get that some other people have different tabletop gaming priorities than me -- to me, the models are absolutely the most important thing, and the lore, second -- and that they, like the OP, are just done with GW, because what they want they haven't been able to get out of GW for a long time. Really, for these people, NOTHING, GW could do would repair that relationship. What GW is trying to do is make people who are receptive to their products and who like their games and models a little happier, and to that end, I think what they have been doing recently is a net positive. It should result in a lower rate of attrition of players to other games, and some of the initiatives (like more boardgames or build+paint sets) may even result in some new customers.

I agree we are now back to "baby steps" and they are looking promising (the new "board-game" models even have me all excited).
I think with most, all would be forgiven if they could just balance out the gosh-darn game.
When I see a new GW product on the shelf and it is looking pretty and all, I think about the rules in 40k and think "why bother?".
The game gets those dusty, carefully painted models out into the world with your peers which may even brighten their day.
It is a crime that the rules do not get similar care and attention as the models do.

 Talizvar wrote:

It is a crime that the rules do not get similar care and attention as the models do.

40k/AoS would probably be the gold standards for wargaming rules if this were the case

I really am not sure when the bygone days of balance were -- the only version of 40k that I ever recall being balanced was Rogue Trader, when we made our own lists and printed them on dot matrix printers I think that as you go back in editions, when the Internet wasn't as prevalent and people didn't share uber lists as much, imbalance was less of an issue, because strategy, listbuilding and tactics weren't instantly disseminated and dissected. I've just been ok with imbalanced factions because the people I want to play with want an enjoyable game, and therefore will accommodate, "your ork army kinda sucks so I'll take some models off". I'm actually more displeased with internal imbalance within a faction that leads to having no reason to take a model other than that it's a cool model or some to fulfill narrative.

Anyways, I just think the stuff GW has done recently -- especially the extremely detailed FAQs -- is a good start in terms of making the gaming crowd that likes 40k a bit happier.

 Talys wrote:
I'm actually more displeased with internal imbalance within a faction that leads to having no reason to take a model other than that it's a cool model or some to fulfill narrative.

Agreed, each should have some role or why have it... "no model gets left behind".
Especially the effort you put in, hard to justify fielding a "useless" model and it just sits on the shelf.

Anyways, I just think the stuff GW has done recently -- especially the extremely detailed FAQs -- is a good start in terms of making the gaming crowd that likes 40k a bit happier.

Like I said: baby steps.
I just wish I knew what metrics they use to determine any of these changes they make are of benefit that cannot be measured in raw sales (like the FAQ you mentioned).
Would be nice to funnel some positive feedback to them in the hopes they continue their good behavior.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
You have made a habit of defending GW regardless of their actions and you seem to get off on being condescending. Add those together and few will take your argument seriously regardless of whether you're right or wrong about the subject.

GW's recent behavior could imply a long term change. We simply don't know. What i can tell you is GW has used up almost all my trust with them. So it will take some time and more good actions on their part before I give them the benefit of the doubt again. For some fans it's already too late.

I have made a habit of stating things exactly the way they are. To someone who is biased to the negative, that may falsely seem like something else. The problem probably lies in said persons ability to view things in an objective an neutral light. If someone can't do it, it's not anyone elses problem. Also, if someone doesn't take a correct argument seriously it really doesn't matter to me that much. Correct is still correct in the end. And yes, I also have a hard time taking someone seriously if they are acting childishly or have a clear history of their main goal being the spreading of the negative and actively looking to annoy.

I respect respectable people, as evidenced by effortless communication with people who aren't chronically and actively spreading a negative atmosphere by vaurious, sometimes inflammatory means. I have respect for output just like Talizvar's earlier in this thread, as indicated by my post about giving him kudos. He stated his thoughts in a reasonable and calm manner, without making a dramatic, useless show of it. What a great way to communicate that he isn't currently enjoying the game, and what his next steps will be. I have no respect for knee-jerking man-tantrums, or bitter griefing. And I never will. I imagine the goal of a hobby forum is to be mainly positive, and not mainly negative, surely? Lately I have simply ignored users I find bring nothing but the negative/griefing to the table, as is everyones right on this forum. Probably the best approach all in all.

When it comes to the latter, I understand if your trust is "used up."

Sorry for the edits, but using my phone atm.

hobojebus wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

This. I'm sure 50% of the comments on GW would be either "Suck my ****" or posting illicit pictures. A company doesn't want bad comments on it's Facebook? Ohhhh nooo!!

Well if they hadn't mishandled their long term customers so atrociously they wouldn't be faced with such hostility in the first place, they burnt the bridges not the customers.

If they ever hope to get out of this massive hole they dug themselves they need to eat some crow, better would be an apology.

Gamers have long memories ex GW customers won't forget how they were treated just because they made a face book page.

You: "I can't talk trash on the GW page so their new changes are clearly complete fail"

Others: "Yeah but if they allowed that sort of thing (hint: every serious company moderates their social media) the page would be a total mess"

You: "Yeah well, they deserve it. *hmph*"

It doesn't matter what GW does for people like you, you'll always find something to bash on them about.

 MarsNZ wrote:

It doesn't matter what GW does for people like you, you'll always find something to bash on them about.

This is such a silly argument, I mean really, do you actually believe that?

GW doing positive things that people don't actually care about obviously isn't going to make those people happy.

I couldn't give a flying feth about GW's social media interaction if it doesn't lead to rules that aren't such a hideous mess.

GW have so many core problems that make people unhappy that doing a few positive periphery things are obviously going to be met with "well that's nice but I don't give a gak".

 MarsNZ wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

This. I'm sure 50% of the comments on GW would be either "Suck my ****" or posting illicit pictures. A company doesn't want bad comments on it's Facebook? Ohhhh nooo!!

Well if they hadn't mishandled their long term customers so atrociously they wouldn't be faced with such hostility in the first place, they burnt the bridges not the customers.

If they ever hope to get out of this massive hole they dug themselves they need to eat some crow, better would be an apology.

Gamers have long memories ex GW customers won't forget how they were treated just because they made a face book page.

You: "I can't talk trash on the GW page so their new changes are clearly complete fail"

Others: "Yeah but if they allowed that sort of thing (hint: every serious company moderates their social media) the page would be a total mess"

You: "Yeah well, they deserve it. *hmph*"

It doesn't matter what GW does for people like you, you'll always find something to bash on them about.

So they are trying to fix rules that a bunch of people already paid like 50 bucks for on top of their plastic costs? Fine. Golf clap. Now try making 80% of your own models NOT worthless.

 MarsNZ wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

hobojebus wrote:


Sorry but making a Facebook page and then saying they better be nice comments or your banned isn't a big change, they don't want to hear complaints now any more than they did in 2004 when they closed their forums down.

These are small half arsed changes and that's being generous.

I'd say they have better things to do than micro-manage dickish comments from trolls/people. If you have a complaint, write a letter/email. Depending on your manner of communication, they may or may not address it. It's no different from being on here. Rule #1 is BE POLITE.

Further to that, you can't please everyone, but you can certainly try.

This. I'm sure 50% of the comments on GW would be either "Suck my ****" or posting illicit pictures. A company doesn't want bad comments on it's Facebook? Ohhhh nooo!!

Well if they hadn't mishandled their long term customers so atrociously they wouldn't be faced with such hostility in the first place, they burnt the bridges not the customers.

If they ever hope to get out of this massive hole they dug themselves they need to eat some crow, better would be an apology.

Gamers have long memories ex GW customers won't forget how they were treated just because they made a face book page.

You: "I can't talk trash on the GW page so their new changes are clearly complete fail"

Others: "Yeah but if they allowed that sort of thing (hint: every serious company moderates their social media) the page would be a total mess"

You: "Yeah well, they deserve it. *hmph*"

It doesn't matter what GW does for people like you, you'll always find something to bash on them about.

No it's "I can't give honest fact based none sugar coated critique so it's a pointless effort"

I'm on the ffg forums and when they do something the community does not like they tend to listen, that's an amazing concept I know but thats the difference between a company that gives a damn and GW.

A social media page that only allows positive reinforcement is worthless because they are still ignoring valid complaints.

The remain positive -rule is there because no company has the resources to moderate tens of thousands of users inflammatory posts.

I have given them a complaint in Facebook using the message option, regarding Forgeworld flyers being unusable with the new Death From The Skies rules, and I have received a response. They stated FW is aware of this and it will be fixed, but not this instant. *kneejerk tantrum rage*

There's "GW ignoring valid complaints" trumped right there.

They received a valid complaint/complaints, they didn't ignore it, they instead acknowledged it, apologized for the inconvenience and indicated that steps are being taken. Just no way around it, stop trying.

A pointless example in the end, since it has already been trumped before by the fact they are drafting their FAQ and it's full of complaints they have already taken notice of, evidenced by actual responses.

Now someone might think this is, again, defending GW.

It's telling the truth. Nothing more, nothing less. The reason for the FB page rules is obvious, and legitimate complaints being reacted to instead of being ignored factual. That's in the now, for context. Before they did not react nor interact for a long time, publicly anyway. That is also the truth.

The "remain positive" rule has the same vibe as the requests from some users that have asked mods to "control" the negativity in this very forum: the desire of leaving any kind of public criticism out, and turn social media into a resonating eco chamber of clapping yes-men.

Which we know is how GW has worked internally for a long time.

 Korinov wrote:
The "remain positive" rule has the same vibe as the requests from some users that have asked mods to "control" the negativity in this very forum: the desire of leaving any kind of public criticism out, and turn social media into a resonating eco chamber of clapping yes-men.

I disagree about the desire being that extreme. To me it seems that normal, civil criticism is tolerated quite well. The other kind "criticism" -not so much. And that's good asfar as I'm concerned.

 Korinov wrote:
The "remain positive" rule has the same vibe as the requests from some users that have asked mods to "control" the negativity in this very forum: the desire of leaving any kind of public criticism out, and turn social media into a resonating eco chamber of clapping yes-men.

Which we know is how GW has worked internally for a long time.

Okay, try this. Go on literally any other products Facebook and scream obsenities or hurl insults at them. Tell me when you get blocked. Most negatives, when written in a polite and constructive way, still get a response from GW's design team. They do not, and should not, have to respond to comments saying "OMG YOU'RE PRICING IS TOO HIGH" or "GW SUCKS!!!"

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Korinov wrote:
The "remain positive" rule has the same vibe as the requests from some users that have asked mods to "control" the negativity in this very forum: the desire of leaving any kind of public criticism out, and turn social media into a resonating eco chamber of clapping yes-men.

Which we know is how GW has worked internally for a long time.

Okay, try this. Go on literally any other products Facebook and scream obsenities or hurl insults at them. Tell me when you get blocked. Most negatives, when written in a polite and constructive way, still get a response from GW's design team. They do not, and should not, have to respond to comments saying "OMG YOU'RE PRICING IS TOO HIGH" or "GW SUCKS!!!"

Yeah this -- they receive plenty of reasonable criticism, but also so so much insane and unreasonable nerd-rage... at the end of the day we're talking about toys, and the level of emotion and grudge-holding about these toys would probably be considered markers for mental illness in other walks of life.

Go to ANY business's facebook page and post the kind of vitriol you generally see from GW-haters and watch how fast it goes away.

Positive criticism is fine, negative criticism... kinda not so much.

I acknowledge the game has problems (I've played MTG at a competitive level for over 20 years; I helped playtest Sabertooth Games' 40K CCG way back when; I feel I understand game balance reasonably well).

Many of these can be solved with 'forge your own narrative', 'agree on the rules you are playing' - which is a cop-out, but a solution the rulebook itself suggests...

I think the company is moving in a positive direction. Give them time. What's the rush?

I've played since RT (around 1990). Trust me, there was brokenness way back when, too.

I've never understood threads like this. I suspect I never shall. If you're not enjoying yourself with Warhammer/GW;

1) Change something about the game or how you're playing it to facilitate fun. Or;

2) Play a different game that you find fun.

I feel my numeric list would be quite lengthy indeed before I got to, "make online thread to convince others this is unfair/unfun."

 Cieged wrote:
I've never understood threads like this. I suspect I never shall. If you're not enjoying yourself with Warhammer/GW;

1) Change something about the game or how you're playing it to facilitate fun. Or;

2) Play a different game that you find fun.

I feel my numeric list would be quite lengthy indeed before I got to, "make online thread to convince others this is unfair/unfun."

After 20 years of buying and playing I've more than earnt the right to express my displeasure at the current sorry state of the game and the company running it into the ground.

hobojebus wrote:

 Cieged wrote:
I've never understood threads like this. I suspect I never shall. If you're not enjoying yourself with Warhammer/GW;

1) Change something about the game or how you're playing it to facilitate fun. Or;

2) Play a different game that you find fun.

I feel my numeric list would be quite lengthy indeed before I got to, "make online thread to convince others this is unfair/unfun."

After 20 years of buying and playing I've more than earnt the right to express my displeasure at the current sorry state of the game and the company running it into the ground.

I would like to pointlessly interject to tell you to worship GW or gtfo.