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Well that was the final straw for me. I have been holding out hope since they said they were going to come out with a new Ork Codex for 7th edition that Orks might finally be competitive with other armies outside of 1 or 2 builds.

Since then we had the codex release, which nerfed every viable ork list. They released Mork/gorkanauts and Flash Gitz which are utter trash. Nerfed anything fun in the codex (IE Ramshackle) and to add insult to injury, took away the ability to take an invul save for the entire faction (KFF is a 5+- because it doesn't function in CC, you know...where orks are supposed to excel at).

Then GW teased Orks again with the Waaagh Ghaz supplement which turned out to be a big steaming pile of garbage. So many amazing builds in that supplement which could have been simply amazing, but instead of giving them rules that made them worth taking, they made them fething useless. Case and point, Blitz Brigade. Take 5 Battle Wagonz and they gain Scout. And then it goes on to say in detail that you are never allowed to assault 1st turn from those Battlewagonz, thereby making it a giant, expensive and USELESS Formation. Gimmicky? yes. Competitive? No.

Then GW realized that they had fethed the orks royally. No Decurion style formation, no real units worth a damn compared to the top tier codexs so what did they do? They re-released the exact same Waaagh Supplement but added in the Orkurion (Which is tied with IG for WORST decurion style formation) and a bunch of other equally useless formations and detachments.

And now, finally, GW gave us another new flyer! I think Orks have probably the most or second most flyers of any faction outside of FW. And all of them are terrible. Teasing us with a new flyer that might be worth taking. Finally we might have a unit that can help our completely underwhelming codex. Nope, its an even more expensive flyer then we currently have, its AV10/10/10. And best of all, it has blast weapons so if it jinks to stay alive (you know AV10 and all) it can't FIRE ITS WEAPON!

So with all of that being done to the Army that I have invested hundreds of hours into and god knows how much money I am officially Boycotting Games-Workshop and ALL of their stores and products. I am still going to play, I am still going to buy new models, just never from GW or stores that sell their products. I am now going to waste my money on chinese knock offs, Ebayers who are selling at deep discounts and from you dakkanauts who have had enough of GW completely and are liquidating your armies.

Final thoughts? Feth GW and specifically which ever snotling is in charge of writing Ork rules.

It happens to us all, go play other better cheaper games and leave GW to rot.

hobojebus wrote:
It happens to us all, go play other better cheaper games and leave GW to rot.

Unless you play Space Elves, Space Marines or Tau. Maybe Necrons as well.

Go play Spartan games stuff. its relatively cheap to start and a ton of fun.

 Desubot wrote:
Go play Spartan games stuff. its relatively cheap to start and a ton of fun.

I have spent to much time and money on my Ork army to just up and leave the community. I am just going to Boycott Games-Workshop products and I am going to actively encourage every player I meet to do the same. I am currently looking for some 3rd Party websites to order from, failing that, all future purchases will be from Dakka's trading forum and Ebay. I will not give a single Dollar to GW ever again.

Seriously, everyone's known for awhile Orks are not competitive. The new Ork flyer would be no different. You play Orks or CSM or DEldar or Guard because you like them, not because they're actually competitive. You play SM, Necrons, Eldar, or Tau if you want to be competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Go play Spartan games stuff. its relatively cheap to start and a ton of fun.

I have spent to much time and money on my Ork army to just up and leave the community. I am just going to Boycott Games-Workshop products and I am going to actively encourage every player I meet to do the same. I am currently looking for some 3rd Party websites to order from, failing that, all future purchases will be from Dakka's trading forum and Ebay. I will not give a single Dollar to GW ever again.

So....you're still gonna play the game, just talk gak about it?

There's nothing stoping you from playing with friends and ignoring new rules and revisions.
It sucks but just weather it out with people who are happy to accommodate the fairer ruling.

hobojebus wrote:
It happens to us all, go play other better cheaper games and leave GW to rot.

Right. Not sure what GW is thinking. Do they have so many beginners there creating the codices and supplements?

A lot of us have been where you are now - and the wheel turns. I figure 40k will sooner or later finally morph into a version of the game it inspired (Age of Sigmar), making the question of tightly written, balanced tournament rules as explicitly moot as they have always been implicitly. At that point, a great deal of people are going to enjoy 40k a lot more. You may be one of them. I know I will be!

 jreilly89 wrote:


Seriously, everyone's known for awhile Orks are not competitive. The new Ork flyer would be no different. You play Orks or CSM or DEldar or Guard because you like them, not because they're actually competitive. You play SM, Necrons, Eldar, or Tau if you want to be competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Go play Spartan games stuff. its relatively cheap to start and a ton of fun.

I have spent to much time and money on my Ork army to just up and leave the community. I am just going to Boycott Games-Workshop products and I am going to actively encourage every player I meet to do the same. I am currently looking for some 3rd Party websites to order from, failing that, all future purchases will be from Dakka's trading forum and Ebay. I will not give a single Dollar to GW ever again.

So....you're still gonna play the game, just talk gak about it?

So it is to much to hope that GW can at least make an attempt to balance the game out and give orks a fighting chance against other factions?

So if I want to be competitive I have to play one of four factions, anything else and it is my own fault because I want to play an army that I like?

And yes, I am still going to play the game and I am going to talk a massive amount of GAK about GW in general and their fethtastic rules specifically.

Play other games. X-wing is cheap to start, cheap to expand, incredibly simple, and tactically deep while being well balanced. Easy to convince friends to get in as well because of the pre-painted models.

I'll also echo Spartan's offerings as being well done games with increasingly excellent miniatures.

Finally, plenty of GW's old Specialist Games are free to download and cheap to play with either proxies or looting Ebay/the swapshop. BFG is a great example, as I'm currently convincing a group of people to shift some attention from 40k (which we all had a lot of issues with) to BFG.

Turn back the clock and go to 5th ed . Orks were great in 4th and 5th. Between the 5th codex and Imperial Armour 8 you can find a use for just about any model in the current line.

SemperMortis wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Seriously, everyone's known for awhile Orks are not competitive. The new Ork flyer would be no different. You play Orks or CSM or DEldar or Guard because you like them, not because they're actually competitive. You play SM, Necrons, Eldar, or Tau if you want to be competitive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Go play Spartan games stuff. its relatively cheap to start and a ton of fun.

I have spent to much time and money on my Ork army to just up and leave the community. I am just going to Boycott Games-Workshop products and I am going to actively encourage every player I meet to do the same. I am currently looking for some 3rd Party websites to order from, failing that, all future purchases will be from Dakka's trading forum and Ebay. I will not give a single Dollar to GW ever again.

So....you're still gonna play the game, just talk gak about it?

So it is to much to hope that GW can at least make an attempt to balance the game out and give orks a fighting chance against other factions?

The bad rules of 40k have been known for years, even back into early 6th. Hoping they'll balance the game and give Orks a better chance? Yep, misguided. Orks are there to be bullied by Space Marines, same with CSM.

So if I want to be competitive I have to play one of four factions, anything else and it is my own fault because I want to play an army that I like?

Basically. If you find a casual setting, you'll be fine, but if you want to go to ITC Tournaments or the like, you'll need to bring competitive lists.

And yes, I am still going to play the game and I am going to talk a massive amount of GAK about GW in general and their fethtastic rules specifically.

Erm, kay. I think you'd have a better time selling your stuff and going to X-Wing or Warma/Hordes, but you do you.

Semper, that feel is pretty widespread ive bought nothing from GW in well over a year, and nothing substantial in probably 3 years. I would highly suggest looking into games like Dropzone Commander or Xwing.

 Manchu wrote:
A lot of us have been where you are now - and the wheel turns. I figure 40k will sooner or later finally morph into a version of the game it inspired (Age of Sigmar), making the question of tightly written, balanced tournament rules as explicitly moot as they have always been implicitly. At that point, a great deal of people are going to enjoy 40k a lot more. You may be one of them. I know I will be!

40k is pretty much already there, which is the problem for many. AoS has hardly seen widespread success and acceptance relative to the old WHFB. For my own meta, events that routinely drew 18-24 in 4E and 5E now struggle to get half a dozen people, the last event had 4 people show up, while AoS never took off, sales have been nonexistent and nobody is showing up to play according to my FLGS. Obviously anecdotal, but seems to not be uncommon.

Having a balanced ruleset has zero downside for the fluff/scenario player, and has great advantages for competitive, pickup, and beginner play.


TL;DR 40k is already very close to AoS, and that seems to be the problem, not the solution.

Why are you still here on the GW-centric forum if you're "done" with them.

Answer: You're not done. You just want to whine.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Semper, that feel is pretty widespread ive bought nothing from GW in well over a year, and nothing substantial in probably 3 years. I would highly suggest looking into games like Dropzone Commander or Xwing.

 Manchu wrote:
A lot of us have been where you are now - and the wheel turns. I figure 40k will sooner or later finally morph into a version of the game it inspired (Age of Sigmar), making the question of tightly written, balanced tournament rules as explicitly moot as they have always been implicitly. At that point, a great deal of people are going to enjoy 40k a lot more. You may be one of them. I know I will be!

40k is pretty much already there, which is the problem for many. AoS has hardly seen widespread success and acceptance relative to the old WHFB. For my own meta, events that routinely drew 18-24 in 4E and 5E now struggle to get half a dozen people, the last event had 4 people show up, while AoS never took off, sales have been nonexistent and nobody is showing up to play according to my FLGS. Obviously anecdotal, but seems to not be uncommon.

Having a balanced ruleset has zero downside for the fluff/scenario player, and has great advantages for competitive, pickup, and beginner play.


TL;DR 40k is already very close to AoS, and that seems to be the problem, not the solution.

I hate to sound like TFG complaining about the super power armies but....yeah. I know a number of Ork Players who have quit the hobby entirely (They sold me a number of models that I now own) I know a few IG and Chaos guys who just gave up and switched to either a new hobby or gave up on Wargaming in general. I also know of a Tyranid player who got so ticked off at GW that he just stopped playing entirely and routinely showed up to events just to convince players to switch to bolt action.

What I don't see happening is Marine, Eldar, Tau and Necron players giving up on the hobby. I just don't understand how GW can't figure this out. They lose players when they make the game imbalanced towards a few factions and nerf the others into the ground.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Why are you still here on the GW-centric forum if you're "done" with them.

Answer: You're not done. You just want to whine.

meaning you haven't bothered to read anything I posted, but thanks for the insightful comment. I am assuming your primary army is Space Elves, Marines or Tau.

Nobody knows why GW does what it does, there seems to be little business reasoning behind many of their decisions and even less game design thought behind them.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Why are you still here on the GW-centric forum if you're "done" with them.

Answer: You're not done. You just want to whine.

people can still like the game universe and previous editions of the game even if they've had it with GW. Part of the reason for forums like this is for peopple to discuss and vent their frustrations with the community as a whole..

Here's my question on the Wazbomb: Why, WHY would I EVER want one of these things when, RIGHT OVER HERE in the SAME FREAKING KIT we have the Blitza bommer, which is:

1) 45 points(?) cheaper

2) has MORE firepower (a TL supa-shoota and BS3 big shoota >>>>> one BS ONE shot at S4+D6 AP1, and a S7AP2 large blast that only scatters 1d6 >>> S8AP2 TL small blast 99.9999% of the time)

3) Exactly the same defensive stats, minus the KFF..which....why should I care? why do I want a 5++ on a plane with jink anyway?

the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my question on the Wazbomb: Why, WHY would I EVER want one of these things when, RIGHT OVER HERE in the SAME FREAKING KIT we have the Blitza bommer, which is:

1) 45 points(?) cheaper

2) has MORE firepower (a TL supa-shoota and BS3 big shoota >>>>> one BS ONE shot at S4+D6 AP1, and a S7AP2 large blast that only scatters 1d6 >>> S8AP2 TL small blast 99.9999% of the time)

3) Exactly the same defensive stats, minus the KFF..which....why should I care? why do I want a 5++ on a plane with jink anyway?

For funzies. Look, it's pretty damn obvious Ork players don't get rules to be good, they get fun fluffy rules. It's the same reason Mad Dok has a 6+ FNP but gives himself and his unit a 5+

the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my question on the Wazbomb: Why, WHY would I EVER want one of these things when, RIGHT OVER HERE in the SAME FREAKING KIT we have the Blitza bommer, which is:

1) 45 points(?) cheaper

2) has MORE firepower (a TL supa-shoota and BS3 big shoota >>>>> one BS ONE shot at S4+D6 AP1, and a S7AP2 large blast that only scatters 1d6 >>> S8AP2 TL small blast 99.9999% of the time)

3) Exactly the same defensive stats, minus the KFF..which....why should I care? why do I want a 5++ on a plane with jink anyway?

It is the same problem for almost every single Ork release this edition. Great idea, great model, complete lack of rules to flesh out the model, usually followed by a complete lack of dakka.

The best unit in the entire ork codex ( in my opinion) for shooting is the Mek Gun. for like 40pts you can have a S8 AP2 Range 36 small blast weapon that is BS3 (Grots) The only downside to the Mek Gun? Leadership, they don't even benefit from the craptastic mob rule so unless you put a character in that unit with a decent LD value then as soon as those grots lose 25% you can kiss that unit good bye.

And even with that I am still convinced that GW fethed up and accidentally gave us a good unit, im sure those were meant for SM or Eldar but the rules writers got confused.

I yet await the Age of Horus, when competitiveness is no longer the mark of what armies see the table, when my CSM can leave their warpsleep to frolic with the Orks once more, and I can spend all the moneys assembling the ridiculous Haemonculus coven I've wanted all these years ...

... but until then, I'll keep enjoying the feth out of rules systems produced by Mantic, Wyrd and Corvus Belli

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:
I yet await the Age of Horus, when competitiveness is no longer the mark of what armies see the table, when my CSM can leave their warpsleep to frolic with the Orks once more, and I can spend all the moneys assembling the ridiculous Haemonculus coven I've wanted all these years ...

... but until then, I'll keep enjoying the feth out of rules systems produced by Mantic, Wyrd and Corvus Belli

- Salvage

pretty much this. at this point bring on age of whatever. it cant be worse. and money paws dont scare me. everyone in my area has stopped playing. if even 2 or 3 people were to get into a new version, thats better than the current zero

I don't think that they'll notice your absence.
I'm not sure what is worse though... someone complaining about how crappy the rules are and continuing to play or someone who is going to go and boycott something but just not from specific sources.
you do realize they still get your money right?

the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my question on the Wazbomb: Why, WHY would I EVER want one of these things when, RIGHT OVER HERE in the SAME FREAKING KIT we have the Blitza bommer, which is:

1) 45 points(?) cheaper

2) has MORE firepower (a TL supa-shoota and BS3 big shoota >>>>> one BS ONE shot at S4+D6 AP1, and a S7AP2 large blast that only scatters 1d6 >>> S8AP2 TL small blast 99.9999% of the time)

3) Exactly the same defensive stats, minus the KFF..which....why should I care? why do I want a 5++ on a plane with jink anyway?

First your not looking at the whole picture.

The new wing leader abilities can grant +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons. Now add one of those to the wazbom. 2 twin linked kmk shots (or 2 teleport blasta shots) , 2 smasha gun shots , and 4 twin linked suppa shoota shots. Or S9 kmk (or teleport blasta) and S4+1+1d6 smasha gun and S7 suppa shoota.

Also there is a formation that is a Wazbom and 3 other flyers that they all get a 3++ in a certian pattern and interceptor.

Also the kff extends 6" around the flyer protecting other units.

You can just look at a unit and say it's garbage untill you see how it gets to interact with other units and in formations/patterns. Or before you even play with the unit.

Also if a blitz bomber jinks ot can't drop a bomb so the Wazbom has the option not to jink and still get some sort of save, the bomber does not.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
I don't think that they'll notice your absence.
I'm not sure what is worse though... someone complaining about how crappy the rules are and continuing to play or someone who is going to go and boycott something but just not from specific sources.
you do realize they still get your money right?

Reasonably sure if I find a good Chinese or other 3rd party then GW won't be getting a Penny from me. And GW can sue those companies all they want, most are in countries that just tell them to go feth themselves.

As far as buying used? well that really depends on what that person is doing with the money. A quick glance at the Dakka store and you can see a lot of people are getting out of the hobby and switching to another game. Or they are getting rid of their armies to go buy the new flavor of the month. Meaning the sales for the Ork army will go down, granted as you mentioned I am but 1 person, but I intend to encourage as many people as I can to stop buying GW products. Will I be effective? no, GW won't even notice, and even if they did notice they wouldn't care because if you look at their market value, it has gone down every year for a number of years and they still don't seem to give a flying feth about the community.

The game is not intended to be balanced nor is it supposed to a competition between 2 players each trying to win. It's intended for 2 miniature collectors to get together and tell a story using their miniatures. Now, it wouldn't be a very good story if the badguys/gribblies/faceless mooks won so those armies have been designed to be worse than the "hero" armies.

You just gotta accept that 40k is not a wargame. It's storytime. And the story's not about Orks. If you want to play the role of the winner, then play a winner faction.

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Here's my question on the Wazbomb: Why, WHY would I EVER want one of these things when, RIGHT OVER HERE in the SAME FREAKING KIT we have the Blitza bommer, which is:

1) 45 points(?) cheaper

2) has MORE firepower (a TL supa-shoota and BS3 big shoota >>>>> one BS ONE shot at S4+D6 AP1, and a S7AP2 large blast that only scatters 1d6 >>> S8AP2 TL small blast 99.9999% of the time)

3) Exactly the same defensive stats, minus the KFF..which....why should I care? why do I want a 5++ on a plane with jink anyway?

First your not looking at the whole picture.

The new wing leader abilities can grant +1 S to all weapons or +1 shots to all weapons. Now add one of those to the wazbom. 2 twin linked kmk shots (or 2 teleport blasta shots) , 2 smasha gun shots , and 4 twin linked suppa shoota shots. Or S9 kmk (or teleport blasta) and S4+1+1d6 smasha gun and S7 suppa shoota.

Also there is a formation that is a Wazbom and 3 other flyers that they all get a 3++ in a certian pattern and interceptor.

Also the kff extends 6" around the flyer protecting other units.

You can just look at a unit and say it's garbage untill you see how it gets to interact with other units and in formations/patterns. Or before you even play with the unit.

+1 S and +1 shots per gun is a very nice bonus, but you are also failing to notice that you are required to take a FORMATION to get that bonus. Pretty sure most of those formations require 3 or more flyers. So Your paying for 3 flyers to make 1 of them useful. Furthermore 3 Ork flyers with this new one added in will cost you somewhere around 400pts And here is the best part. They are all AV10 all around. So if you fight against any army with AA or an army that has a good RoF you will lose those 400pts rather quickly. 1 unit of ML Devestators by itself can take down an Ork flyer a turn with slightly above average rolling. Hell the Ork Traktor Kannon will eat that formation, the entire formation, in 2 turns max.

Not a single Ork Flyer is currently worth its points. This new one is just the biggest offender atm.

SemperMortis wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
I don't think that they'll notice your absence.
I'm not sure what is worse though... someone complaining about how crappy the rules are and continuing to play or someone who is going to go and boycott something but just not from specific sources.
you do realize they still get your money right?

Reasonably sure if I find a good Chinese or other 3rd party then GW won't be getting a Penny from me. And GW can sue those companies all they want, most are in countries that just tell them to go feth themselves.

As far as buying used? well that really depends on what that person is doing with the money. A quick glance at the Dakka store and you can see a lot of people are getting out of the hobby and switching to another game. Or they are getting rid of their armies to go buy the new flavor of the month. Meaning the sales for the Ork army will go down, granted as you mentioned I am but 1 person, but I intend to encourage as many people as I can to stop buying GW products. Will I be effective? no, GW won't even notice, and even if they did notice they wouldn't care because if you look at their market value, it has gone down every year for a number of years and they still don't seem to give a flying feth about the community.

Except they are showing signs they do care, hence the FAQS and asking the community what they think.

Except they are showing signs they do care, hence the FAQS and asking the community what they think.

Yeah, which is a very nice way of saying "we appreciate your input, but go feth yourself". That is until they actually start enacting some change to the game that they are asking about.

I started with Dark Angels near the beginning of 3rd/end of 2nd. 3rd edition was great. Then they needed us in 4th and 5th... we had the worst codex ever. 6th we got a good update and became a lot better with more options. 7th is just ok, unless you play ravenwing or green wing (which are now super good).

I will always keep my dark angels because
#1 - I like the fluff, colors, symbols, etc
#2 - spent alot of time and money on them
#3 - I like to display and collect minis too, esp if they have history
#4 - editions and rules change alot, there will be ups and downs

Just remember #4. I have been through 6 codex books, and 6 editions in the past 17 years. We were the worst army from 4th to 6th edition, which was many years, and most people knew it. The orcs have been bland and non competaive (mostly due to the formation balance as you eluded to with the decurion comment).