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The outflanking rules (after last night)
Apparently my highly trained and efficient veteran guardsmen cannot see or shoot at the huge hulking 30K veterans who are walking right up to them (my opponent outflanked and deployed as close as he possibly could to my units).

They snuck in close and then suddenly appeared, to your dudes' shock.

Getting to fire would have made less sense!

imperial plasma gunner... prepares to fire hit weapon, it burns his hand, he is no longer in the fight.... apparently the mechanicum needs an STC for oven mitts.

on a related subject.

melta gunner opens up a tank, the squad assaults the squad exiting the vehicle. melta gunner is lost in the ensuing combat. his gun is left behind as nobody else was trained in its use or willing to give it the old college try (who is running this army!)

 Ashiraya wrote:
They snuck in close and then suddenly appeared, to your dudes' shock.

Getting to fire would have made less sense!

They outflanked, they didnt infiltrate, which means they came from another section of the battlefield (dont forget each 40K game is basically one firefight in Epic).... But for some reason they where able to walk up to within 10 feet of my guys without coming under fire once.

A squad of assault marines a facing a sheer wall. So tall infact their jump packs cannot propell them the vertical distance up and on to the wall.

No matter, they simply jump up and over the wall, landing some distance beyond it.

jump infantry ignore intervening terrain when moving, but srtill have to measure vertical distance when moving as such.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
They snuck in close and then suddenly appeared, to your dudes' shock.

Getting to fire would have made less sense!

They outflanked, they didnt infiltrate, which means they came from another section of the battlefield (dont forget each 40K game is basically one firefight in Epic).... But for some reason they where able to walk up to within 10 feet of my guys without coming under fire once.

So? You can outflank too. Creed can outflank just about anything.

Meanwhile, those same hulking vet are sitting on their thumbs, giving the guardsmen a sporting chance to shoot them before they charge in assault

It's a give and take kinda deal

 HANZERtank wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
An Imperial Guard Commissar is fighting alongside a Guard section when the sheer horror of war causes them to break and flee. Realising that he needs to make an example of one, lest the line break, the Commissar turns his Bolt Pistol on himself and blows his own brains out, causing the section to rethink their actions.

(Under the rules the Commissar must execute the model with the highest LD, usually himself. Now, the rules state that a Commissar cannot shoot another Commissar, but due to the wording he cannot shoot ANOTHER Commissar, but he can shoot himself)

My favourite one from this was when a friend had attached Marneus Calgar to a squad and used his old rule to pass or fail any moral check. He wanted to try leg it so elected to fail, at which point his opponent said the commisar in the squad would use his rule. Highest leadership was Calgar at the time.

One swift blam later, dead Chapter Master but at least the guardsmen were motivated to stay in the fight.

That... Wow. Just wow. Poor Calgar, poor commissar, poor imperium at large, but so much karmic justice for crappy fluff.

Brother-Sergeant! I believe a group of foul Eldar are lurking 10 meters in front of us, using their xeno witchery to hide themselves!

Battle Brothers! Purge the xeno! Although our auspexes fail us, the Emperor shall still guide our aim! Wait, Brother Dardus, put down your flamer, it will avail us naught! Draw your bolt pistol and fire at random in that direction!

Uh, Brother-Sergeant, you realize this flamer sprays blessed promethium over everything in a 15--degree arc, and will bake those Eldar alive, right?

No, just listen,you can't use your flamer, the Emperor forbids it. And Brother Ovitius, put those grenades away!

What the hell are you talking about, Brother Sergeant? I can hear where they are and probably get 2-3 of 'am!

I will not tell you again! The Emperor wills us to fight unseen enemies not with area effect weapons, but instead with magdumping our slow-firing, low-capacity weapons!

But Brother-Sergeant, we'll never hit them firing like that!

Sure we will. In fact, we'll still be 25% as accurate as usual!

In the 4th edition Tau codex (and possibly the latest one too) countermeasures would work against anything except guided weapons.

Eldar Shortseer wrote:
Brother-Sergeant! I believe a group of foul Eldar are lurking 10 meters in front of us, using their xeno witchery to hide themselves!

Battle Brothers! Purge the xeno! Although our auspexes fail us, the Emperor shall still guide our aim! Wait, Brother Dardus, put down your flamer, it will avail us naught! Draw your bolt pistol and fire at random in that direction!

Uh, Brother-Sergeant, you realize this flamer sprays blessed promethium over everything in a 15--degree arc, and will bake those Eldar alive, right?

No, just listen,you can't use your flamer, the Emperor forbids it. And Brother Ovitius, put those grenades away!

What the hell are you talking about, Brother Sergeant? I can hear where they are and probably get 2-3 of 'am!

I will not tell you again! The Emperor wills us to fight unseen enemies not with area effect weapons, but instead with magdumping our slow-firing, low-capacity weapons!

But Brother-Sergeant, we'll never hit them firing like that!

Sure we will. In fact, we'll still be 25% as accurate as usual!

Hehehehe, this one always got me. Along with the whole "they are invisible, but they still block line of sight" thing. I still do not understand why I cannot just flamer an area of invisible models, or barrage the living crap out of where my troops think they are.
(Also the wording needs working on - Timmy has tried to claim several times that a blast that clips models in an invisible unit needs to roll a 6 to hit each of them. Each time he has been proven wrong)

 master of ordinance wrote:

Eldar Shortseer wrote:
Brother-Sergeant! I believe a group of foul Eldar are lurking 10 meters in front of us, using their xeno witchery to hide themselves!

Battle Brothers! Purge the xeno! Although our auspexes fail us, the Emperor shall still guide our aim! Wait, Brother Dardus, put down your flamer, it will avail us naught! Draw your bolt pistol and fire at random in that direction!

Uh, Brother-Sergeant, you realize this flamer sprays blessed promethium over everything in a 15--degree arc, and will bake those Eldar alive, right?

No, just listen,you can't use your flamer, the Emperor forbids it. And Brother Ovitius, put those grenades away!

What the hell are you talking about, Brother Sergeant? I can hear where they are and probably get 2-3 of 'am!

I will not tell you again! The Emperor wills us to fight unseen enemies not with area effect weapons, but instead with magdumping our slow-firing, low-capacity weapons!

But Brother-Sergeant, we'll never hit them firing like that!

Sure we will. In fact, we'll still be 25% as accurate as usual!

Hehehehe, this one always got me. Along with the whole "they are invisible, but they still block line of sight" thing. I still do not understand why I cannot just flamer an area of invisible models, or barrage the living crap out of where my troops think they are.
(Also the wording needs working on - Timmy has tried to claim several times that a blast that clips models in an invisible unit needs to roll a 6 to hit each of them. Each time he has been proven wrong)

Would make more sense, and be slightly less cheesy, if it simply meant you were BS1 when targetting the unit.
Blasts and templates still a viable tool.

Squad levels meltaguns at Avatar of Khaine.

No effect....

Squad charges in and slaps a Melta bomb in it's face and manage to injure it.....

Jbz` wrote:
Squad levels meltaguns at Avatar of Khaine.

No effect....

Squad charges in and slaps a Melta bomb in it's face and manage to injure it.....

I'm personally glad to see a little life back in this thread.

As of R.G.'s release, the fact that he physically cannot harm an Avatar because his only CC profile has Soul Blaze. He can keep swinging and swinging and it will just laugh off the blows. (It is the Avatars that have the Soul Blaze immunity, right?)

 KommissarKiln wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
Squad levels meltaguns at Avatar of Khaine.

No effect....

Squad charges in and slaps a Melta bomb in it's face and manage to injure it.....

I'm personally glad to see a little life back in this thread.

As of R.G.'s release, the fact that he physically cannot harm an Avatar because his only CC profile has Soul Blaze. He can keep swinging and swinging and it will just laugh off the blows. (It is the Avatars that have the Soul Blaze immunity, right?)

Yes it is.


It's also funny how Space Marine players seem desperate to find a way around being unable to hurt ONE specific model in the game (that is barely, used anyway)

 KommissarKiln wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
Squad levels meltaguns at Avatar of Khaine.

No effect....

Squad charges in and slaps a Melta bomb in it's face and manage to injure it.....

I'm personally glad to see a little life back in this thread.

As of R.G.'s release, the fact that he physically cannot harm an Avatar because his only CC profile has Soul Blaze. He can keep swinging and swinging and it will just laugh off the blows. (It is the Avatars that have the Soul Blaze immunity, right?)

Yep it's the single best piece of poetic justice I've ever heard in the 40k universe.

Guilliman can still hurt it with Smash though.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 KommissarKiln wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
Squad levels meltaguns at Avatar of Khaine.

No effect....

Squad charges in and slaps a Melta bomb in it's face and manage to injure it.....

I'm personally glad to see a little life back in this thread.

As of R.G.'s release, the fact that he physically cannot harm an Avatar because his only CC profile has Soul Blaze. He can keep swinging and swinging and it will just laugh off the blows. (It is the Avatars that have the Soul Blaze immunity, right?)

Yep it's the single best piece of poetic justice I've ever heard in the 40k universe.

Guilliman can still hurt it with Smash though.

Smash doesn't replace your weapon profile, bro. No Smashy Smash for Guilliman.

Doesn't this guy have a bolt pistol?

Martel732 wrote:
Doesn't this guy have a bolt pistol?

No, just a heavy bolter.

HAHA. Jokes on him, then. Even BA can punch out an avatar. And we're the worst CC Astartes because GW said so, even though the fluff says otherwise.

*Tau running at top speed suddenly stop*
"why did we stop?" asks a fire warrior
"its not our turn" says another
"shouldn't we get behind cover at least?"
"No, no more moving it's not our turn!"
"but, there's a massive wall there, couldn't we-"
proceeds to be shot to death by a small eldar squad that walks out from behind a bush

Edit : outdated rule lol

Tiggy stands next to a sisters of silence unit and gets all messed up while trying to cast powers.

Tiggy gets in the sisters of silence new rhino that also has the aura, WITH the sisters squad, and proceeds to fire witchfires out the hatch with no issue.

\o.O/

Valkyrie flies over the battlefield and paratroopers are jumping out. They all land packed at each othe like bunch of prison shower homosexuals, but one of them stands on a fence post. Dice rolls and suddenly:
1) The guy on a fence post dies and the rest of the squad commits suicide
2) They all teleport somewhere, where is no battle at all.
3) Valkyrie swiftly returns, they embark it and paradrop is repeated once again, from higher attitude and presumably somewhere else.

 firechcken23 wrote:

or how about this
*SM about to start raining bullets on eldar*
one SM speaks up
"sir I can't see them"
entire unit is now unable to locate the eldars 2 feet away.

I don't get that one, the models that have LoS can still fire, just that one guy that can't see cannot.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 firechcken23 wrote:

or how about this
*SM about to start raining bullets on eldar*
one SM speaks up
"sir I can't see them"
entire unit is now unable to locate the eldars 2 feet away.

I don't get that one, the models that have LoS can still fire, just that one guy that can't see cannot.

Possibly a reference to Invis Stars?

Similarly, imagine a situation where 4/5 Marines round a corner and get obliterated by the blast from a Leman Russ. The 5th Marine, being caught in the blast but out of the tank's vision, goes unharmed. LoS with blasts doesn't quite work like that anymore, but when it did it was awfully frustrating.