Agents of Vect Strategem

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**Xenomancers**

Blackie wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I know. I've been mopping up so many opponents with my mono-GK army that I was about to get a new bucket.

Seriously, with all of these new books and startegies GK's need a new book or a significant revision of its units via CA and FAQ. Either that, or just drop GK as an army and admit that they made a mistake.

I think that GK as an army ARE a mistake. Same as harlequins or inquisition or SoB or genestealers cult, deathwatch etc. Also Ynnari. They should all be part of a bigger codex.

Drukhari are the only army in the game that doesn't have any psyker, so someway to counter the enemy psykers should be something needed. I don't think that the new specific stratagem is game breaking, even against several units/characters that can get mortal wounds by it, the drukhari player won't cause massive damage. And again, it's the only way drukhari have to counter psykers. Sure they can soup with eldar but also GK can soup with other stuff and be way more competitive, so souping is not a valid argument in this matter.

Grey-knights are just another space marine chapter. Do you feel this way about other space marine chapters?

**Purifying Tempest**

As a sororitas player, I still think they should be rolled back up into like the old Witch Hunter codex with a few of the other armies as well.

If there are 30+ factions... how long will it take to get rules for your faction if you're not one of the big money makers? Sororitas rules have been few and far between already, what happens when they go back to a normal release cycle with all these new dingleberries clogging up the release cycle?

I think 8th edition has introduced TOO much. And that means someone is going to suffer. Sororitas have been martyrs for their whole history, I doubt it will change.

**Unit1126PLL**

Daedalus81 wrote:
I don't think that's exactly what he's saying.

I personally don't mind factions getting their own books. You can combine all those books in an army naturally so the distinction of having them in one book seems pointless other than saving money.

The implication I read from it was "rather than expand this faction to a good number of options, we should instead roll it into a book with other factions."

I am a firm believer in expanding options, not forcing Grey Knights to join Sororitas in a book... which isn't fluffy, by the way. The organizations hate each other, and the Sororitas are the Chamber Militant for the Ordo Hereticus and have only tangential, at best, relationship with the Ordo Malleus (and therefore the GK).

**the_scotsman**

Purifying Tempest wrote:
As a sororitas player, I still think they should be rolled back up into like the old Witch Hunter codex with a few of the other armies as well.

If there are 30+ factions... how long will it take to get rules for your faction if you're not one of the big money makers? Sororitas rules have been few and far between already, what happens when they go back to a normal release cycle with all these new dingleberries clogging up the release cycle?

I think 8th edition has introduced TOO much. And that means someone is going to suffer. Sororitas have been martyrs for their whole history, I doubt it will change.

If the release pace of 8th is any indication, the answer is: We'd need to introduce another 50 or so factions in order to slow the pace of releases down to the "golden age" of 5th ed 40k.

**Unit1126PLL**

Purifying Tempest wrote:
As a sororitas player, I still think they should be rolled back up into like the old Witch Hunter codex with a few of the other armies as well.

If there are 30+ factions... how long will it take to get rules for your faction if you're not one of the big money makers? Sororitas rules have been few and far between already, what happens when they go back to a normal release cycle with all these new dingleberries clogging up the release cycle?

I think 8th edition has introduced TOO much. And that means someone is going to suffer. Sororitas have been martyrs for their whole history, I doubt it will change.

I mean, rolling them into "witch hunters" gains them exactly 2 3 units: Greyfax, generic Inquisitors (but only with the Hereticus ordo!) and acolytes. I'm not in favor of this at all.

Perhaps if GW revamped the game again and totally changed the way factions worked, that'd be fine, but as it stands, I don't want either another reboot nor do I want Sororitas to be folded into Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicus, or Grey Knights, or whatever other asinine Imperial organization. I could see them folded into the Ordo Hereticus, but that's 3 units, atm.

ADDENDUM:
5 units, forgot the Daemonhost and the Jokaero. 6, if you include the Forge World Land Raider. Where's the eye-roll smiley?

**Mr Morden**

Blackie wrote:
Yeah, tau and necrons were my mistakes, sorry. About SoB, they're one of those independent factions that should be part of a larger codex IMHO, if those armies lack something it's a different matter as they only have a few units available. Black templars don't have their codex, they're part of the SM one, which means lots of psykers available without souping. World eaters are not a real faction either.

Its the marines shouldn't have all these dexes but they do. That's why everyone else has had to wait so long.

Two large books (one for Codex and one for non Codex adherent) would do it all and also allow more variety for non snowflake chapters.

**Xenomancers**

Mr Morden wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Yeah, tau and necrons were my mistakes, sorry. About SoB, they're one of those independent factions that should be part of a larger codex IMHO, if those armies lack something it's a different matter as they only have a few units available. Black templars don't have their codex, they're part of the SM one, which means lots of psykers available without souping. World eaters are not a real faction either.

Its the marines shouldn't have all these dexes but they do. That's why everyone else has had to wait so long.

Two large books (one for Codex and one for non Codex adherent) would do it all and also allow more variety for non snowflake chapters.

Yep - I agree.

**Bharring**

But if you look at the sales of plastic kits, SoB don't have the volume to warrant their own codex.

*Please* don't take that sereosly.

**Marmatag**

This stratagem is amazing.

Some armies absolutely function on their ability to use a key stratagem, once or twice a game.

**Desubot**

Marmatag wrote:
This stratagem is amazing.

Some armies absolutely function on their ability to use a key stratagem, once or twice a game.

Hell ALL armies also depend on that occasional 1cp reroll. for a D6 damage or charge distance

Vects agents secretly putting an oil slick in front of a charging horde makes me laugh.

also odd question but you would be able to reroll the 1 on vects with a command reroll right? (so long as you didnt in this phase)

**Marmatag**

Desubot wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
This stratagem is amazing.

Some armies absolutely function on their ability to use a key stratagem, once or twice a game.

Hell ALL armies also depend on that occasional 1cp reroll. for a D6 damage or charge distance

Vects agents secretly putting an oil slick in front of a charging horde makes me laugh.

also odd question but you would be able to reroll the 1 on vects with a command reroll right? (so long as you didnt in this phase)

Yeah of course.

Where this gets dicey is when you use Agents of Vect to interrupt Agents of Vect. Do you do this after you see the result of the D6, or before?

**Blackie**

Xenomancers wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I know. I've been mopping up so many opponents with my mono-GK army that I was about to get a new bucket.

Seriously, with all of these new books and startegies GK's need a new book or a significant revision of its units via CA and FAQ. Either that, or just drop GK as an army and admit that they made a mistake.

I think that GK as an army ARE a mistake. Same as harlequins or inquisition or SoB or genestealers cult, deathwatch etc. Also Ynnari. They should all be part of a bigger codex.

Drukhari are the only army in the game that doesn't have any psyker, so someway to counter the enemy psykers should be something needed. I don't think that the new specific stratagem is game breaking, even against several units/characters that can get mortal wounds by it, the drukhari player won't cause massive damage. And again, it's the only way drukhari have to counter psykers. Sure they can soup with eldar but also GK can soup with other stuff and be way more competitive, so souping is not a valid argument in this matter.

Grey-knights are just another space marine chapter. Do you feel this way about other space marine chapters?

Absolutely, I think all SM should be merged into a single book. Mixing chapters should be something like mixing kabals, wych cults or covens in the same list using the new drukhari codex.

About GK I think they match better in some sort of inquisition themed codex than along other SM chapters.

Three books in total for imperium, which are still 3x more than many other factions

Of course no soups allowed between different books.

**Ordana**

Marmatag wrote:
Desubot wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
This stratagem is amazing.

Some armies absolutely function on their ability to use a key stratagem, once or twice a game.

Hell ALL armies also depend on that occasional 1cp reroll. for a D6 damage or charge distance

Vects agents secretly putting an oil slick in front of a charging horde makes me laugh.

also odd question but you would be able to reroll the 1 on vects with a command reroll right? (so long as you didnt in this phase)

Yeah of course.

Where this gets dicey is when you use Agents of Vect to interrupt Agents of Vect. Do you do this after you see the result of the D6, or before?

"Just after CP are spend but before the strat is resolved". When you roll the D6 to find out what happens you are resolving the stratagem so you would need to Vect before you know if their Vect works.

**Aaranis**

This will look like a silly anime with over-evil opponents out-clevering each other

**Xenomancers**

Blackie wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I know. I've been mopping up so many opponents with my mono-GK army that I was about to get a new bucket.

Seriously, with all of these new books and startegies GK's need a new book or a significant revision of its units via CA and FAQ. Either that, or just drop GK as an army and admit that they made a mistake.

I think that GK as an army ARE a mistake. Same as harlequins or inquisition or SoB or genestealers cult, deathwatch etc. Also Ynnari. They should all be part of a bigger codex.

Drukhari are the only army in the game that doesn't have any psyker, so someway to counter the enemy psykers should be something needed. I don't think that the new specific stratagem is game breaking, even against several units/characters that can get mortal wounds by it, the drukhari player won't cause massive damage. And again, it's the only way drukhari have to counter psykers. Sure they can soup with eldar but also GK can soup with other stuff and be way more competitive, so souping is not a valid argument in this matter.

Grey-knights are just another space marine chapter. Do you feel this way about other space marine chapters?

Absolutely, I think all SM should be merged into a single book. Mixing chapters should be something like mixing kabals, wych cults or covens in the same list using the new drukhari codex.

About GK I think they match better in some sort of inquisition themed codex than along other SM chapters.

Three books in total for imperium, which are still 3x more than many other factions Of course no soups allowed between different books.

I can agree that they should be in the same book. That doesn't help GW make $ though so it will never happen.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Blackie wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
Blackie wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I know. I've been mopping up so many opponents with my mono-GK army that I was about to get a new bucket.

Seriously, with all of these new books and startegies GK's need a new book or a significant revision of its units via CA and FAQ. Either that, or just drop GK as an army and admit that they made a mistake.

I think that GK as an army ARE a mistake. Same as harlequins or inquisition or SoB or genestealers cult, deathwatch etc. Also Ynnari. They should all be part of a bigger codex.

Drukhari are the only army in the game that doesn't have any psyker, so someway to counter the enemy psykers should be something needed. I don't think that the new specific stratagem is game breaking, even against several units/characters that can get mortal wounds by it, the drukhari player won't cause massive damage. And again, it's the only way drukhari have to counter psykers. Sure they can soup with eldar but also GK can soup with other stuff and be way more competitive, so souping is not a valid argument in this matter.

Grey-knights are just another space marine chapter. Do you feel this way about other space marine chapters?

Absolutely, I think all SM should be merged into a single book. Mixing chapters should be something like mixing kabals, wych cults or covens in the same list using the new drukhari codex.

About GK I think they match better in some sort of inquisition themed codex than along other SM chapters.

Three books in total for imperium, which are still 3x more than many other factions Of course no soups allowed between different books.

Grey Knights and Space Wolves have too many actually unique entries compared to the Angels, where mostly everything is covered.