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 Amishprn86 wrote:


yes it was..............

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/26/codex-drukhai-preview-assembling-your-raiding-party/

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/40kDrukhariPreview-Mar26-RaidingForce5lw.jpg

You realize right that is just rule what you get with 6 det's? Not permission to ignore that 3 det limit if it's used. If you take 6 det's so can opponent. Game does have 3 play modes. This just gives you rules for those for the hyper rare cases you don't play the standard matched play 3 det max game.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

I've never played with someone who didn't stick to that "suggested" limit and I'm not going to start now.

So you demand your opponents to abide by your houserules... OK.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.

I'm pretty faithful the competitive scene will make an exception for Drukhari once the Codex drops. Maybe after a tournament or two. Without a full view of their army and knowledge on how much the restriction punishes them in a tabletop environment, all we can do is swing or things in the wind and hope we don't piss on our own faces.

Then again, I'm used to disappointment. One could argue that I crave it.

 Crimson wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

I've never played with someone who didn't stick to that "suggested" limit and I'm not going to start now.

So you demand your opponents to abide by your houserules... OK.

Not his. Gw'sx

 Crimson wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

I've never played with someone who didn't stick to that "suggested" limit and I'm not going to start now.

So you demand your opponents to abide by your houserules... OK.

I mean its a houserule in so much as it is the accepted rule at every major event - you are correct that it is a suggestion rather than a hard limit but plenty of people are working for tournament or event prep and thus would prefer to keep their games in the scope of what they're likely to see.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.


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 Amishprn86 wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/26/codex-drukhai-preview-assembling-your-raiding-party/

To play devil's advocate here - that doesn't say we are allowed to only that that is what happens when we do (i.e. if we play past 2,000 points for example).

The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.

I'm pretty faithful the competitive scene will make an exception for Drukhari once the Codex drops. Maybe after a tournament or two. Without a full view of their army and knowledge on how much the restriction punishes them in a tabletop environment, all we can do is swing or things in the wind and hope we don't piss on our own faces.

Then again, I'm used to disappointment. One could argue that I crave it.

That argument I think is hard to make I think because you're looking at 11 CP which we can still accomplish (or more) for a not dissimilar investment (6 HQs and 6 Troops for 6 Patrols or 6 HQs and 9 Troops for 4 Battalions (and 12 CP)). So its hard to say we'll be any more or less CP starved than any other army given that we have access to the same detachments they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:


The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

Yeah but if tournaments don't come off the limitation it won't mean much. I may get to play with it at my house/club but I won't be able to at major events.

Soooo is all this argument based on what the tourneys would end up doing and we dont know if they will follow the 3 detachment suggestion for de?

side note i know many people dont like maelstrom but there are a hand full of maelstorm missions that have mission specific stratigems that let you pay points to discard your cards. that could be pretty powerful to counter.

a hand full of reinforce counters would be good too.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.

I'm pretty faithful the competitive scene will make an exception for Drukhari once the Codex drops. Maybe after a tournament or two. Without a full view of their army and knowledge on how much the restriction punishes them in a tabletop environment, all we can do is swing or things in the wind and hope we don't piss on our own faces.

Then again, I'm used to disappointment. One could argue that I crave it.

That argument I think is hard to make I think because you're looking at 11 CP which we can still accomplish (or more) for a not dissimilar investment (6 HQs and 6 Troops for 6 Patrols or 6 HQs and 9 Troops for 4 Battalions (and 12 CP)). So its hard to say we'll be any more or less CP starved than any other army given that we have access to the same detachments they do.

Different factions may be balanced differently on scales of access to buffing units, psychic powers, traits, and stratagems.

I'm pretty sure Drukhari are going to be about as psychicly void as the Sororitas at a list building level. That's a pretty big hole that they're going to need to be balanced around. Maybe there will be a requirement to spend more CP to get your army to the same competitive level as CSM with their access to all those Psychic disciplines.

Then is it fair to tell them that they cannot have more access to CP than the CSM player?

We have no idea the weight in which Drukhari armies will place on spending their CP. Which could quickly turn Agents of Vect into a coaster stratagem, as it doesn't help their fighting force directly.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/26/codex-drukhai-preview-assembling-your-raiding-party/

To play devil's advocate here - that doesn't say we are allowed to only that that is what happens when we do (i.e. if we play past 2,000 points for example).

The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

This ^

Farseer_V2 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

It does however bear at least remembering that most tournaments have that restriction so we should at least consider when we're framing up the conversation. I know this is your specific hill you're willing to die on and all but there's some merit in at least discussing how everything plays out in a 3 detachment limited format.

I'm pretty faithful the competitive scene will make an exception for Drukhari once the Codex drops. Maybe after a tournament or two. Without a full view of their army and knowledge on how much the restriction punishes them in a tabletop environment, all we can do is swing or things in the wind and hope we don't piss on our own faces.

Then again, I'm used to disappointment. One could argue that I crave it.

That argument I think is hard to make I think because you're looking at 11 CP which we can still accomplish (or more) for a not dissimilar investment (6 HQs and 6 Troops for 6 Patrols or 6 HQs and 9 Troops for 4 Battalions (and 12 CP)). So its hard to say we'll be any more or less CP starved than any other army given that we have access to the same detachments they do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purifying Tempest wrote:


The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

Yeah but if tournaments don't come off the limitation it won't mean much. I may get to play with it at my house/club but I won't be able to at major events.

Its not about CP, its not hard to take 3 Battalions in DE, its extremely easy actually, players are scared of mega soups (at least that is what it seems).



Seeing how some of our War Gear options are now stratagems, DE will need more CP than normal i feel and also b.c our Traits are built around MSU detachments, it might be needed to even be competitive.

We need to see them in action before limiting them.

tneva82 wrote:

Not his. Gw'sx

It is a suggestion for organised events and most games are played outside such events. Demanding your opponent to abide by it when not in such an event is a houserule. And of course not all events use that rule in the first place. Our local league doesn't.

 Desubot wrote:
Soooo is all this argument based on what the tourneys would end up doing and we dont know if they will follow the 3 detachment suggestion for de?

It started out about the Stratagem, but no one cares about that b.c everyone is like "the sky is falling DE wants to play with more than 3 detachments"

Like I said fellas, I'm playing devil's advocate here. I hope we're allowed to take 6 Patrols because I'd rather play pure DE than soup (which I will do in a 3 detachment limit environment). I'm just telling you not to get your hopes up.

tneva82 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

There is no rule that limits how many detachments you may take in an army, just a suggestion for organized events.

If we're going to discuss how balanced something is then we're going to do it within the context of matched play. It doesn't make sense for us to talk about all the options outside of that all the time, because there are way too many.

And again, that is not a Matched play rule. It is a suggestion for an organized event. So in the context of the Matched play rules, a player can indeed bring six detachments.

But if pretty much all use it that "suggestion" has power of rule. Of course if you like playing solo it works

No. It's still nothing more than a suggestion for organized events, no matter how many players use it.

Sure. Doesn't change that you are strugling to find game without that. Have fun playing solo

I can find games just fine, thank you.

I'm really excited by this stratagem and by this Codex.

It feels like... GW... Wrote... A Good... Codex...

I'm geninuely shocked.

I'm going to buy it even though I own exactly two Incubi and nothing else.

Purifying Tempest wrote:

The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

Well can imperium soup there bring in say 5 batalion of ig and marine det's? If yes de gets to bring in those. Nothing is different as far as number of detachments. 5 ig battallions easy enough so imperium will have like 20 cp

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Soooo is all this argument based on what the tourneys would end up doing and we dont know if they will follow the 3 detachment suggestion for de?

It started out about the Stratagem, but no one cares about that b.c everyone is like "the sky is falling DE wants to play with more than 3 detachments"

I think it comes back to the Stratagem because of the weighty cost of 3 CP.

So it is slightly on topic? Just a tiny bit?

But I do agree, it seems like a lot of people are wanting to doomsay.

The previews got my wife off of the ghastly Ynnari train and back onto her pure Dark Eldar army, and that makes me VERY happy. I hated seeing her models being relegated to 1 stupid rule.

I'm looking forward to her bringing grips of rag-tag patrols to do battle with organized fighting forces. It truly does seem like service done to the fluff in the face of people gripping onto arbitrary "rules" that are being enforced for... "practical" reasons?

And the only way that noise is going to get broken is if you actually question it and ask: why the heck is that a thing when my army was built by GW to spit at it? One could quietly sit down and take the restriction that makes the fluff taste very vanilla... or one could say: that's total bs, like Orc level 5+ BS vs Alaitoc Spectres.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:

The counter to this is:

Nothing in the rules says I cannot, so why would they ever need to specify that it is legal to do so?

It is not GW that is enforcing this limit. It is third-party events and local groups that took a suggestion and made it the law.

Insert Judge Dredd meme here.

Well can imperium soup there bring in say 5 batalion of ig and marine det's? If yes de gets to bring in those. Nothing is different as far as number of detachments. 5 ig battallions easy enough so imperium will have like 20 cp

5 BNs of base guard is what? 1000+ points of nothing but trash that'll get RIPPED by the modern meta? Sure, you can have 18 CP, just good luck fielding a fighting force and using that CP in a constructive way with the matched play rule of 1 play of each stratagem per phase.

Arbitrary limitations are just that. Suggestions are not limitations, they are just there to give you an idea of the intention.

personally thin it's a great strategem that really messes with an opponent's planning. As a RW player, imagine my problem when I try to play Speed of the Raven after Advancing.....oops, no, you can't charge this turn and your guns are -1 to hit or cannot fire. makes you rethink your game, and relying on strategems is ridiculous anyway. I'm all for it, and hope Inquisitors get something similar.
Seeing how this book is turning out, I'm super excited for harlequins and deathwatch.

Here is a simple solution.

Warhammer Fest is in May, and with it the Warhammer World GT finals. I'm assuming DE will be legal by then. So lets see what GW's 'official' word will be and if they allow DE to take more then 3 detachments.

My bet?
DE will keep the same limit.

This seems to me like what a lot of people on this board have been asking for: A reward for the player using one codex. I assure you that GW is aware that the 3 detachment limit has become the standard in tournaments. That's why you get the bonus CP for taking three DE patrols. If your entire tournament list is made up of DE, you get some free points! If you want to soup, you can still do that, too! The benefit is that you get to take some strong unit from the CWE, Harlequins, and Ynnari list!

To my knowledge nothing keeps dark eldar from using more standard formations. Even index dark eldar are priced such that a double battalion (with optional supplementary formation) isn't hard to manage. Can't do it as easy as IG, but on par with most Middle of the road priced armies like Tau/admech.

SilverAlien wrote:
To my knowledge nothing keeps dark eldar from using more standard formations. Even index dark eldar are priced such that a double battalion (with optional supplementary formation) isn't hard to manage. Can't do it as easy as IG, but on par with most Middle of the road priced armies like Tau/admech.

The way de works though is those battalions are either very one dimensional and makes hard to have all 3 de factions or you lose traits

SilverAlien wrote:
To my knowledge nothing keeps dark eldar from using more standard formations. Even index dark eldar are priced such that a double battalion (with optional supplementary formation) isn't hard to manage. Can't do it as easy as IG, but on par with most Middle of the road priced armies like Tau/admech.

Yes, but, again, this severely limits your options if you want traits. A Battalion is 2 Archons and 3 units of Warriors, or 2 Succubi and 3 units of Wyches, or 2 Haemonculi and 3 units of Wracks. And that's also very limiting on what other units you can bring in your other slots.

It seems pretty obvious that the intention for DE is that they use 3 Patrols the way everyone else uses a Battalion. 3 HQs and 3 Troops for 4 CP, with additional restrictions on what other units you can bring with them, seems very much in line with 2 HQs and 3 Troops for 3 CP and then optional slots that can take anything in the codex. Right? It's not like they're an army that's looking to spam HQs.

Dionysodorus wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
To my knowledge nothing keeps dark eldar from using more standard formations. Even index dark eldar are priced such that a double battalion (with optional supplementary formation) isn't hard to manage. Can't do it as easy as IG, but on par with most Middle of the road priced armies like Tau/admech.

Yes, but, again, this severely limits your options if you want traits. A Battalion is 2 Archons and 3 units of Warriors, or 2 Succubi and 3 units of Wyches, or 2 Haemonculi and 3 units of Wracks. And that's also very limiting on what other units you can bring in your other slots.

It seems pretty obvious that the intention for DE is that they use 3 Patrols the way everyone else uses a Battalion. 3 HQs and 3 Troops for 4 CP, with additional restrictions on what other units you can bring with them, seems very much in line with 2 HQs and 3 Troops for 3 CP and then optional slots that can take anything in the codex. Right? It's not like they're an army that's looking to spam HQs.

This ^.

Its part of what ive been trying to say, DE might "need" those extra detachments just to function. Its very hard for DE player with the new rules to play Battalion and Kabals mix with Wych, you lose your traits.

But they got no rule giving them more dets. So either they bring 3 patrols for 7 cp or their opponents can bring more dets as well(at which point 20cp imperium armies are dead easy. Possibly with regenerating ones and getting more from opponents strategems)

tneva82 wrote:
But they got no rule giving them more dets. So either they bring 3 patrols for 7 cp or their opponents can bring more dets as well(at which point 20cp imperium armies are dead easy. Possibly with regenerating ones and getting more from opponents strategems)

DE doesnt really care about CP as much as traits tho (they can easily do brigades too). thats like telling SM only Tac squads can have UM traits

I really hope they don't do something a silly as allowing dark eldar to count 3 patrols as 1 detachment against the 3 detachment limit as they will just become the new CWE CP farm. 6 patrols can currently be had for the princely some of 594 points that still leaves 1406 points for the CWE army detachment which is playing with 12 cp minimum plus whatever its detachment gives it.

Heck even only using 3 patrols gets you to 7 cp for 297 points with 2 detachments and 1703 points to build a list with. Enough to go 1 Alitoc and 1 Ynarri.

tneva82 wrote:
But they got no rule giving them more dets. So either they bring 3 patrols for 7 cp or their opponents can bring more dets as well(at which point 20cp imperium armies are dead easy. Possibly with regenerating ones and getting more from opponents strategems)

Sure, which is why a reasonable TO would say something like: "you can take 3 DE Patrols in a single detachment 'slot'". The army is obviously supposed to be using 3 Patrols in the same way that everyone else uses Battalions, so... just allow that. This isn't hard.

Maybe there's a rule in their Codex that says that they can have multiple patrols inside of a detachment. Or maybe GW is just being GW again and didn't consider the ramifications of what they wrote. Or maybe there's something that we don't know yet that allows patrol detachments to be something else.

Why don't we wait for the Codex before banning/burning/celebrating DE.

Ice_can wrote:
I really hope they don't do something a silly as allowing dark eldar to count 3 patrols as 1 detachment against the 3 detachment limit as they will just become the new CWE CP farm. 6 patrols can currently be had for the princely some of 594 points that still leaves 1406 points for the CWE army detachment which is playing with 12 cp minimum plus whatever its detachment gives it.

Heck even only using 3 patrols gets you to 7 cp for 297 points with 2 detachments and 1703 points to build a list with. Enough to go 1 Alitoc and 1 Ynarri.

Of course, Imperium and Chaos and Tyranids and to a lesser extent Tau and even Eldar without DE can already do this. Like, I have no problem if your objection is to soup and/or CP farming in general and you want to get rid of that, but it seems very strange to want tournaments to disallow it specifically for Eldar when that's clearly how it's supposed to work.