Elbows wrote:Just to add my incredibly unpopular opinion:
1) Remove Storm Guardians (hear me out...)
2) Combine everything into a simple "Guardian" squad, minimum size of 6-7 models if you want.
3) This Guardian squad can be armed with any of the available options in any combination, with or without platforms (you can stick in some special weapon stipulations per normal...or maybe don't? Are Guardians suddenly worthwhile if you can run 6-7 flamers or meltas?). So your Guardian squad can be dirt cheap...or can be run for a platform...or can have a sneaky melta if you want a little sting in the tail, or can have some swords/pistols if you're running a Craftworld which benefits from close combat.
4) Reduce all costs to 6 PPM.
5) Reduce
WS/
BS to 4+...mainly because it makes zero fething sense to have 3+ Guardians. Then bring back the old Black Guardians via Stratagem (1
CP per squad, bla bla bla).
There is no reasonable excuse for Guardians to more or less be better than Dire Avengers. That's garbage and a stupid gak rule change that flies in the face of the fluff.
So...cheap, slightly worse, modular Guardian squads.
PS: The points reduction is also assuming they keep their awful 12" shuriken catapults. Hell, bring back lasguns as a damn option, please. Give my weak and timid Guardians something that doesn't involve being in charge range of every unit in the game.
99% agree.
In a perfect world, Shuriken Catapaults may be +1ppm above sword/pistol. But combine them and give them options is a dream of mine.
Extra bonus points if you mix Rangers into it too (camo cloak and longrifle options), but now I'm just wishlisting.
Additional Guuardian wishlisting:
-LasBlasters, but at A2 (and possibly +1ppm or something). Ideally, Swooping Hawks have a rule making their LasBlasters better
-Striking Scorpions get Chainswords, plus a rule that gives them +1S while wielding chainswords
This makes Guardians more the "Basic troop" like Guardsmen, Marines, Kabs, FireWarriors, and more. And it doesn't harm
CWE identity at all. If you really love the "Shotgunning Guardians" mode, you can points it appropriately to make that the ideal.
Also, further wishlisting, you could change the Black Guardian stratagem to +1WS/
BS to a Guardian unit in the same vein as certain Vets and Chapter Masters. That'd be much more fitting.
And then, to go totally off the rails, I miss in-squad Warlocks. I know
GW is moving away from mixed squads, but
CWE already have them with Exarchs. If we got that back, Guardian specialist squads would have more identity. As it is, it's rather risky, as a 3-man Windrider or 8-man Storm Guardian squad has to be positioned *very carefully* when in the middle of the opponent to protect their Warlock.
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(Also, bonus points on the shock-opener, which served to both shock people into the conversation, and attempt to reconcile two vitrolic sides of a stupid argument.)
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Also, back to "reality" - these are Guardian squads. Even their Specialist squads aren't Aspects. Guardian specialist squads are more like
IG/Marines/Kabs/etc; they'd have a couple specialists amongs squaddies.
I'd be fine with 2 per 8 bodies, although if the min squad size changes, it should be based on that. I like the idea of 6-mans with 2 Specials - it's enough saturation to show specialists and be an interesting builds, but not enough saturation to really be a "melta squad" like
SM Vets or Fire Dragons. Exactly where Guardians should be.
I'd also combine Platforms into the same conversation. So "For every [6|8|10] Guardians in the squad, you may take up to one Heavy Weapons Platforms or two Special Weapons". Also, reduced min squad size would allow higher saturation of weapons platforms. This could make them more interesting - as 2 Heavy Weapons platforms in a 12- or -16-man Guardian squad would be cool. Might need to drop it's survivability (W1 or a 4+) so they don't make the squad too tanky.
So here's a rough ideal dataslate:
Stats:
WS/
BS 4+, 6ppm, 6-24, otherwise as-is
Platform stats:
Sv 4+ W2
Wargear: Light Armor, Sword & Pistol, Plasma Grenade
Options:
Each Guardian may swap their Sword & Pistol for:
-Shuriken Catapault (+1ppm)
-LasBlaster (+2ppm)
-Chainsword & Pistol
For every 3 models, one Guardian may exchange their Sword & Pistol for:
-Flamer
-MeltaGun
Alternately, for every 6 mondels, you may add one Weapons Platform to this unit. T
You may add a single Warlock to this unit. Use the Warlock datasheet, but the model is a member of the Guardian unit, and loses the [Character] keyword.
