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 Dysartes wrote:
They're at least better than Rhinos in close combat, aren't they?

...aren't they?

The Carnifex is a better fighter than a Rhino - things would be truly terrible if they weren't - but it comes down to the durability.

T7 W10 Sv3+ vs T7 W8 Sv3+.

 Blackie wrote:
At the moment they're bland and cheap, there are two options to buff them.

At the moment they're not even worth their low points cost. That's the problem. This isn't some cheap unit that's kinda ok at what it does. It's a unit that's terrible. We want it to be better.

Generally when it comes to changing something you either:

1. Make it worth its cost.
2. Make it cost its worth.

Right now I'd prefer to make Carnifexes worth their cost, and then go a bit beyond that (with the requisite points increase to match). I also acknowledge that they're not the biggest things on the block when it comes to the 'Nids these days, so they shouldn't have stat lines that match the biggest creatures and tanks. What so many 'Nid players want is something that plays a bigger role in the army than just being a distraction. The idea that they'd suddenly be 200 point monstrosities that GW would limit is silly.

It just sounds like you trying to find excuses to not change things, which is an odd phenomena at this board whenever someone suggests a change: people crop up with silly reasons why it shouldn't be done, or can't be tried.

Well, I've said that I want carnifexes to be buffed. Twice already. Now it's three times .

I just think that making them as terrifying as they used to be in 2nd doesn't reflect the status of a 100ish points unit in 9th. That's it. You might want a 100-120ish points unit that is worthy of that cost, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask for a much more expensive unit if someone misses the 2nd version of the carnifex, remembering the impact it had on the game. Personally I'd prefer going with something close to the latter, a much better unit than what it is now but also considerably more expensive.

The idea of limiting units that can be spammed but arguably shouldn't be spammed (and that's entirely on GW wether they are intended to be spammed or not, see planes) is not mine, it's something we've already witnessed. It might be silly for someone, to me it's silly to defend spam. Do you like tyranid monsters? Their codex has plenty of options to go with a lot of big dudes, there's no need to bring 6+ carnifexes for a proper nidzilla list. It's the same reason why I praised GW patch about speedwaaagh lists: do you want to go full vehicles? Ork codex has a vast array of those, there aren't just dakkajets, scrapjets and squigbuggies to choose from.

I 100% want changes, and for tyranids in general not just about carnifexes, but good ones. I definitely wouldn't want an OP 100ppm model that can be spammed in 6-9 as an autotake.

 Jidmah wrote:
IMO the redemptor dreadnought (that's the primaris one) is about as durable as a carnifex should be. However, I wonder if nid playes would be happy with ~175 point carnifexes.

 Blackie wrote:
I'd certainly prefer a 175ppm good unit instead of a 100ppm worthless one.

 Jidmah wrote:
However, I can see people who own 9 carnifexes being unhappy when they are suddenly told to shelf more than half of them.

Your friendly neighbourhood Games Workshop Man here! I've heard your pleas. The 9th edition codex will feature:
Five new kinds of Carnifex.
All under 100ppm.
Can be taken in squads of 3.
T6 8 wounds -1 damage against S1~7 attacks.
We may give them a supplement that gives them a 5++, we'll see, we might be at the planned power creep level of needing 4++s by then.
The first shooty kind of Carnifex will have 3d6 S5 AP2 D2 out of line of sight shots.
The second shooty kind of Carnifex will have 3d3 S8 AP2 D3 shots.
They both still get 4 S7/8 AP2 D2/Dd3 attacks so they can slap back a little.