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Well this is a marketing screw up straight off. Letting your new product be seen for the first time with some hack paint job on it by an influencer instead of in its best light is not a good start

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Here's a reddit thread with some images of some painted printed models.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/wa54sp/orgoth_close_ups_3d_print_quality/

They look pretty rough and the person that painted them said it was their poor painting skills.

It's my poorly done contrast. There were visible striations on the top panels (nowhere else) but after painting were gone.

Yet another fail for their marketing sense.
This is why you send out free models to *painters* and not the gaming channels/sites.
If they’re so confident in their model quality, why are there no independent previews from decent painters?
I want to see what these look like painted up by somebody with more talent than this.
You want to showcase model quality? Then they should have top tier painters showing these off.
Not meta-chasing social media outlets.

As has been proven before, the rules can have some looseness as long as the models are top notch.
So far this is the only model preview I have seen. And it looks like gak.
No offense intended toward the painter. But tabletop quality does nothing to exemplify how good these prints really are…..

Well i guess 'printer farms' might be shapeways which have the advantage of being established (especially in the USA)

but the disadvantage of being relatively expensive and using those horrible old powder printers

(not that powder printers have to produce those bobbly results i've seen some decent results from them in university prototyping work)

but i really hope that isn't the plan

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Valander wrote:

Following the links in the Reddit post to get to the stream of the unpainted model, I think more of that terrible texture is indeed due to bad primer/paint.

Ya the poster of the image said multiple times the texture is due to his bad paint job.

I would honestly expect them to go with laser based SLA as the life of those is much longer and better for a retail production setup I'd wager.

SLA vs MSLA (DLP) is a hard call. There's some things SLA does better (curves) but it takes longer than DLP when you have a full build area. But yes, the lifetime of the machines for SLA are easily 5-10x that of a DLP, and they're not 5-10x as much honestly.

 Ghool wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Here's a reddit thread with some images of some painted printed models.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/wa54sp/orgoth_close_ups_3d_print_quality/

They look pretty rough and the person that painted them said it was their poor painting skills.

It's my poorly done contrast. There were visible striations on the top panels (nowhere else) but after painting were gone.

Yet another fail for their marketing sense.
This is why you send out free models to *painters* and not the gaming channels/sites.
If they’re so confident in their model quality, why are there no independent previews from decent painters?
I want to see what these look like painted up by somebody with more talent than this.
You want to showcase model quality? Then they should have top tier painters showing these off.
Not meta-chasing social media outlets.

As has been proven before, the rules can have some looseness as long as the models are top notch.
So far this is the only model preview I have seen. And it looks like gak.
No offense intended toward the painter. But tabletop quality does nothing to exemplify how good these prints really are…..

There have been some better painters showing them off on streams but this is the only person that got them that posted images themselves. Other stuff you'd need to go find and watch yourself and take screencaps.

Also I cannot blame PP for sending these to people that actually cover their products even if they are small. If they ignored these people there'd be a lot of bitterness from them and the community that they're only chasing after the youtubers that will make one video then never talk about the game again.

 Ghool wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Here's a reddit thread with some images of some painted printed models.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/wa54sp/orgoth_close_ups_3d_print_quality/

They look pretty rough and the person that painted them said it was their poor painting skills.

It's my poorly done contrast. There were visible striations on the top panels (nowhere else) but after painting were gone.

Yet another fail for their marketing sense.
This is why you send out free models to *painters* and not the gaming channels/sites.
If they’re so confident in their model quality, why are there no independent previews from decent painters?
I want to see what these look like painted up by somebody with more talent than this.
You want to showcase model quality? Then they should have top tier painters showing these off.
Not meta-chasing social media outlets.

As has been proven before, the rules can have some looseness as long as the models are top notch.
So far this is the only model preview I have seen. And it looks like gak.
No offense intended toward the painter. But tabletop quality does nothing to exemplify how good these prints really are…..

100% this. However, I have a feeling that some of it may also be that they can't get the high level painters even interested in their wares. We both know PP's been long surviving only off their hardcore fanbase for the most part, and you rarely see any PP model in any of the mass of YouTube or Twitch painting videos/streams. GW? All over the place. Random 3d Patreons? Sure. Even Wizkids and Reaper show more often than Privateer Press models.

Angel Giraldez recently did some paintjobs for them.... painted all of the new Orgoth faction I believe.

big mini painters don't work for free based on their interest, they get paid by publishers to paint minis. If PP cant get any to paint their minis its because they aren't willing to pay their rates.

IIRC this is nothing new, I believe one of the previous departures from the company noted that management was unwilling to pay big influencers for reviews and marketing as is the standard for every other major publisher.

 anab0lic wrote:


Angel Giraldez recently did some paintjobs for them.... painted all of the new Orgoth faction I believe.

Interesting. Commissioned box art is a bit different, though. I'd still say there's not as much excitement, in general, in the "top tier community painters" for PP models.

 Valander wrote:

 anab0lic wrote:


Angel Giraldez recently did some paintjobs for them.... painted all of the new Orgoth faction I believe.

Interesting. Commissioned box art is a bit different, though. I'd still say there's not as much excitement, in general, in the "top tier community painters" for PP models.

These are mostly driven by how much of an audience they draw in, which comes down to people that follow painting contests. That mostly comes down to Creature Caster and obviously Games Workshop because GW drives clicks. Beyond that it's mostly bespoke models that aren't really intended to be part of a game line.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

Jerram wrote:
Bah Humbug.

Warmachine MkIV is to Warmachine as D&D 4th is to D&D.

Lol, I'd think you would want a wargame to be balanced and have tactical depth.

Way to miss the point.
I'd want a new edition to still have the same feel and not feel completely different. WOTC had MTG and Hasbro to keep them alive despite that F UP. I hope PP is still alive to realize their mistake and release a return to roots 5th ed in a few years.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Valander wrote:

 anab0lic wrote:


Angel Giraldez recently did some paintjobs for them.... painted all of the new Orgoth faction I believe.

Interesting. Commissioned box art is a bit different, though. I'd still say there's not as much excitement, in general, in the "top tier community painters" for PP models.

These are mostly driven by how much of an audience they draw in, which comes down to people that follow painting contests. That mostly comes down to Creature Caster and obviously Games Workshop because GW drives clicks. Beyond that it's mostly bespoke models that aren't really intended to be part of a game line.

Yep. If PP wants someone like Squigmire to show off their stuff they need to pay up, same with any of them. They don't do anything for any company that won't bring in a lot of views by itself (IE GW) without money in hand. I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost them 10k+ per video.

OnTabletop/BoW is likely to do something though in the coming month just because I'm sure they're curios about the 3d printing as manufacturing aspect to it.

 Tronbot2600 wrote:


I respectfully disagree. I think at it's heart Warmachine is a game about exploiting synergy and resource allocation/risk management that got co-opted by movement widget fetishists. It made for tedious and boring gameplay that drove the casuals (myself included) away in droves and I'm glad for it to be gone.

This is the best analysis in the entire thread. The widget fetishists seem to have found Marvel Crisis Protocol so maybe Warmachine can be left alone this time around 😺

I really hope this works out for PP.

Yog.0 wrote:

 Tronbot2600 wrote:


I respectfully disagree. I think at it's heart Warmachine is a game about exploiting synergy and resource allocation/risk management that got co-opted by movement widget fetishists. It made for tedious and boring gameplay that drove the casuals (myself included) away in droves and I'm glad for it to be gone.

This is the best analysis in the entire thread. The widget fetishists seem to have found Marvel Crisis Protocol so maybe Warmachine can be left alone this time around 😺

I really hope this works out for PP.

Nope its inaccurate, the movement fetishist will just focus all their attention on moving the first model then break out their 2 inch widget to place the rest of the squad. Its already been talked about in the discord.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Valander wrote:

 anab0lic wrote:


Angel Giraldez recently did some paintjobs for them.... painted all of the new Orgoth faction I believe.

Interesting. Commissioned box art is a bit different, though. I'd still say there's not as much excitement, in general, in the "top tier community painters" for PP models.

These are mostly driven by how much of an audience they draw in, which comes down to people that follow painting contests. That mostly comes down to Creature Caster and obviously Games Workshop because GW drives clicks. Beyond that it's mostly bespoke models that aren't really intended to be part of a game line.

Yep. If PP wants someone like Squigmire to show off their stuff they need to pay up, same with any of them. They don't do anything for any company that won't bring in a lot of views by itself (IE GW) without money in hand. I wouldn't be surprised if it would cost them 10k+ per video.

OnTabletop/BoW is likely to do something though in the coming month just because I'm sure they're curios about the 3d printing as manufacturing aspect to it.

Yeah but there are more than 3 YouTube channels that feature miniature painting.
And any of them, with any sort of audience, whom also don’t charge when given free product, is better than no exposure or marketing at all.

I have to seriously watch entire streams and grab screen caps myself in order to investigate?
If it’s going to be that much effort to get a couple of pictures that a show what a good painter can do with these models, then PP really doesn’t have any money. And I’m not going to do the marketing myself.
If I have to put that kind of effort into trying to find out if it’s a good product or not? Then it’s not a good product is what I’ll assume.
Any good business requires marketing. In any form.
And right now, PP has almost zero for their new models.

https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/28/warmachine-mkiv-painting-orgoth-sea-raiders/

Orgoth painting pics from official website

Jerram wrote:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/28/warmachine-mkiv-painting-orgoth-sea-raiders/

Orgoth painting pics from official website

Eh. I had to go all the way down to the final stage (labelled Face) to see any real detail on model. The camera work is absolutely lousy for details.

The metal on the chest and and rings looks bumpy, same as the random guy's model. And I hate the way the 'fur' blends right into the metal on the shoulderpads, to the point that it looks like a semi-translucent glaze laying on top of the gold of the shoulderpad.
...though some of that may be because there are three layers of sealant on the model before he paints the fur.

Voss wrote:

Jerram wrote:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/28/warmachine-mkiv-painting-orgoth-sea-raiders/

Orgoth painting pics from official website

Eh. I had to go all the way down to the final stage (labelled Face) to see any real detail on model. The camera work is absolutely lousy for details.

The metal on the chest and and rings looks bumpy, same as the random guy's model. And I hate the way the 'fur' blends right into the metal on the shoulderpads, to the point that it looks like a semi-translucent glaze laying on top of the gold of the shoulderpad.
...though some of that may be because there are three layers of sealant on the model before he paints the fur.

Yeah, pics are relatively small and low quality to really show much detail. I would've liked better, hi-res closeups of the model pre-paint to really judge the quality of the model versus trying to figure out if some of the grit/texture was due to the paints (which I suspect some of it is).

The close ups of the sword show some printing striations running across the blade, but other than that (looking at the big pic at the end of the article) they look pretty good to me. If the slight bumpy texture is on the model surface, it doesn't seem any worse than is present on many metal casts.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I wonder what layer height that is set to print at. If they are using new 8K resolution printers, 0.02 print height (which will take a lot longer to print than, say 0.05) then they can probably eliminate them. Some parts might even take using AA settings without too much loss of detail.

It will depend more on wether they can dial in correctly the settings for the resin, honestly, IME. That said, many of the stuff I see in my own prints is absolutely invisible when you have the mini on hand, too.

But yeah, I see layers on the first pic, although the paint doesn't really help to actually see the model.

I have to agree that photos, esp close up ones, will show lines that you just cannot see with the naked eye and painting.

That said I'd expect them to be able to calibrate their printer correctly (which includes getting support from experienced printer people even outside of the firm). That would be the most basic bog standard part of setting up a printer for anyone running a production site. Plus if they want to minimise damage to the model from supports, they really want a well calibrated printer so that they can use the lightest supports over high detail areas to ensure low damage. If they are REALLY smart and have someone good with cutting parts; they'd cut model parts so that they can always have high detail surfaces facing away from the build plate and low detail or even hidden when assembled parts facing the build plate. Thus letting them hide more of the marks simply by the construction of the model.

GW does it for a good many of their modern models. A lot of join lines are well hidden today compared to in the past. Sure there are some angles they can't make it work for them, but they certainly do try

Anti aliasing settings on the newest printers will help.

Main thing is they need to spring for quality resin, and not the cheapest ABS-like they find because those are all brittle.

The good industrial resins with a bit of flex cost more and take more time to print, but produce pretty durable models.

Secondly, we need to see how things will look before they're cleaned up.

There's a lot of things they could do. Thing is 3D printing does produce great results and there's more than enough merchants doing it at good volumes showing that it can work with delivering solid high quality models.


It doesn't scale up as well as casting systems, but its ideal for a firm looking to basically downsize and start over and perhaps (through local manufacture) avoid some of the current issues with international shipping and supply.



As for resin selection I think there are two big things to consider there

1) A lot of 3D print designers are not gamers. They are digital sculptors who might never play wargames or miniature games. They are very skilled, but they often have a big blindspot when it comes to practical design thicknesses.
Eg swords and arrows can be super super thin. Because they've gone for a more realistic scale that looks fantastic in the render. However when printed and cured they create really thin details that, even with very durable resins, are still very fragile and apt to break.

2) I think there's a healthy body of people in the DnD market who are used to PVC type models. They are more used to a model that can quite literally be tossed in a bag at the end of the game.
Wargamers "tend" to be a bit more careful and those with regular cast resin experience might well not find 3D prints all that much more fragile than their cast resin models.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Valander wrote:

Following the links in the Reddit post to get to the stream of the unpainted model, I think more of that terrible texture is indeed due to bad primer/paint.

Ya the poster of the image said multiple times the texture is due to his bad paint job.

I would honestly expect them to go with laser based SLA as the life of those is much longer and better for a retail production setup I'd wager.

Which makes it funny. People keep saying how bad print quality is when we haven't actually seen that...

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Ghool wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Here's a reddit thread with some images of some painted printed models.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warmachine/comments/wa54sp/orgoth_close_ups_3d_print_quality/

They look pretty rough and the person that painted them said it was their poor painting skills.

It's my poorly done contrast. There were visible striations on the top panels (nowhere else) but after painting were gone.

Yet another fail for their marketing sense.
This is why you send out free models to *painters* and not the gaming channels/sites.
If they’re so confident in their model quality, why are there no independent previews from decent painters?
I want to see what these look like painted up by somebody with more talent than this.
You want to showcase model quality? Then they should have top tier painters showing these off.
Not meta-chasing social media outlets.

As has been proven before, the rules can have some looseness as long as the models are top notch.
So far this is the only model preview I have seen. And it looks like gak.
No offense intended toward the painter. But tabletop quality does nothing to exemplify how good these prints really are…..

There have been some better painters showing them off on streams but this is the only person that got them that posted images themselves. Other stuff you'd need to go find and watch yourself and take screencaps.

Also I cannot blame PP for sending these to people that actually cover their products even if they are small. If they ignored these people there'd be a lot of bitterness from them and the community that they're only chasing after the youtubers that will make one video then never talk about the game again.

That's why you send good painters minis first and once the cat is out of the bag you can send to other channels.
The fact you mention that I need to go out of my way to find good examples and the only picture available is the grainy powdery cast, shows me PP did not do their homework here. I mean many 1 man garage companies manage to do this right.

That's exactly what I was talking about when I mentionned quality control.

It's obvious PP didn't think too deep on it, as usual. Enjoy your "GW priced" PP printed miniatures with horrible lines showing then you paint them, 'cause that's cheaper for them to produce that way and it suck to be you, the fool who thought they actually deserved a second chance.

Early to say horrible lines showing seeing we don't know. One guy screwlng up his paint doesn't mean everybody will. You just claim you paint same way as he does

tneva82 wrote:
Early to say horrible lines showing seeing we don't know. One guy screwlng up his paint doesn't mean everybody will. You just claim you paint same way as he does

A painter's skill level has nothing to do, here. Lines showing with paint is natural when they are on the model. That means you have to do extra work to cover them...and it doesn't generally include the use of paint.

People blaming the painter in this case are shifting the blame for no reason, IMHO. The real to blame is the one producing the miniature with such a result, not the poor painter having to deal with it.

In the end, if it's in the same state when launching worldwide, customers will be in the same situation than this poor painter. And I don't think it's okay.

We have seen pic where painter screwed up. I have screwed up with priming and got same effect with gw models plus 3rd party models so according to your logic every company has print lines...

I'm tke smart one and actually wait to see are there print lines and not assume painting issue means print lines.

Haven't seen anybody claim space marine tacticals have print lines yet after priming screw up i had model look just like the pic people stupidly use as proof of print lines.

I don't mind crappy quality to bulk the army out if it means REALLY low prices.

As I joked in the PP section of the forum already, it's not the minutiae of model quality that keep the overall visual quality of Warmachine tables very low. It doesn't matter how crisp the models are if most people don't paint and only half-assemble them anyway.

tneva82 wrote:
We have seen pic where painter screwed up. I have screwed up with priming and got same effect with gw models plus 3rd party models so according to your logic every company has print lines...

I'm tke smart one and actually wait to see are there print lines and not assume painting issue means print lines.

Haven't seen anybody claim space marine tacticals have print lines yet after priming screw up i had model look just like the pic people stupidly use as proof of print lines.

I mean... no. The pics showed gunky metal paint texture, yes, but also layer lines on the shoulders and the feet.



Those are clear examples of layer lines. Will they actually be noticeable on hand? I have no idea, probably not that much, if at all. But that's what they are.