Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
pitboy2710 wrote:I think i should of been clearer.
The people i know of who have deliberately bought models with defects did so with the sole intent of getting extras for free.
If i see a defective model in my local GW i point it out to the staff and they remove it from sale.
That is the proper way to do it IMO
I have to be honest - in 70 or so pages of this thread, and the others that have been written about it, this is the first instance of this I have read about.
We have to assume that, by and large, most customers are decent enough folk. They want a high quality miniature, and will hand money over the till for it. If you're into the business of trying to get stuff 'for free', or at a much lower rate, there are surely far easier ways.
I can't help but feel this is deflecting attention away from what the real issue is here, which should be regarding the quality of Finecast miniatures and whether it is improving.
Oh aye i think most folk are decent enough, i was just saying that in my area there seems to be a fair few people taking advantage.
Its simple really. GW need to make better models and stop selling faulty ones. Sack the quality controller for a start. And the reason people are buying FC is because GW have moved lots of the best figs over to it. So you have no choice. Don't buy online though:. Buy from the shop its easier to take back. Oh and most shops will open the packet for you in the shop so it should be OK. Unfortunately GW is a closed market and as such they can sell crap and you have to put up with it. Hopefully they will improve and from the early days I think they have.
NEVER buy FC from eBay, they are nearly always crappy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 13:23:29
Life is a journey, shame about the destination.....
Oh aye i think most folk are decent enough, i was just saying that in my area there seems to be a fair few people taking advantage.
Where do you live pitboy2710, so I know not to move there?!
Unfortunately GW is a closed market and as such they can sell crap and you have to put up with it.
Fortunately for the industry at large (although perhaps unfortunately for GW) this has never been less of an issue. The wargaming/miniature hobby is growing in leaps and bounds, and there are tons of quality alternatives out there. Even this very forum has been expanding in fact to try and cover some of the more popular ones (check out 'Other Games' underneath the 'Warmachine' section).
Called Mail Order regarding the miniatures they asked to be sent back to them after 4 times failing to supply a 'good' quality miniature.
Their response - they refused to replace the miniatures, stated they'd had three managers look at the miniatures which had the same defects as the previous ones and they said they were acceptable.
Then then tried to push liquid greenstuff down my throat - which is simply not acceptable at all. Their arguement? With the metals I may have had to use greenstuff for the joins - yes. For the joins. Not having to resculpt detail itself on a £20 miniature.
Suffice to say I asked for the refund. This was pointless. Until quality is vastly improved neither myself nor my friend will be putting money into the store or mail order - if we need to order something we will get it via independant retailers, ebay or recasters. The whole shove it down our throat until we fold approach was downright insulting and the local store manager's sale-sale-sale approach was also insulting.
He tried to wriggle out of the refunds as well.
Suffice to say it's the store's loss. We were guys who have both put 4-figure purchases through the store at least once or twice a year for a sizeable chunk of their targets and now we'll be putting nothing.
As a material finecast has potential...but has been pointed out...
They're not casting it correctly.
They're not using the correct materials for the molds.
Their customer services are taking a nosedive.
If the models were acceptable why'd you not say that in the first place rather than faff me about for close to 2 months?
Well I must say I have had a similar experience. It's been a while since I posted my fail collages and I've all but given up on GW now. After finally having a rude customer service agent Mr. Swan, I have decided to no longer purchase GW products. I don't usually mention names but I would like people know whom is responsible for me quitting the hobby.
I've only had the one negative CS experience but being told off like I am some sort of liar and not a customer of 25yrs was the last straw. GW has even published some of my work on their blogs. Its truly shameful how far they have fallen.
My painting table sits unused, which is a shame because I love to paint. Unfortunately my negative CS experience has left more than a bad taste in my mouth. I no longer desire to paint as it just reminds me of my love turned to hate for GW.
Lets take a trip down my bitter memory lane.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 16:58:54
LunaHound wrote:Must we dwell on word semantics Breotan?
If you don;t want to be dragged down on semantics, don't make ridiculous statements like this:
LunaHound wrote:Because for you, you never thought GW pretty much theft their customer by introducing finecast right?
Ok you 3, Grift is the correct word I should have used. But really, is the concept so far off and different?
Dictionary says Grift connotates thievery. While grifting is more subtle and stealing is more direct, they can still work both ways.
The only thing that dictate the word's meaning and context is your perspective on GW and VC.
I can see it swinging both ways insaniak
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/05/12 22:15:41
There are issues with opening in store as well. The sales rep will often breathe down your neck, and insist that moderate defects are easy enough to fix with Green Stuff. Also, if you're like me, you may miss defects and find them after you've taken the model home.
It's been 3 months now and 3 fauilty replacements for the ainverery fig. Now they want me to send them back.. Not a chance... Thay have waisted 3 months of my time for this and then they want them back?!?
Sidstyler wrote:Tell them you'll send them back, but you want a refund.
what for each modle?
Well, for however many you bought I assume, lol. I wouldn't ask for a refund for the replacements that I didn't exactly pay for, that would be kinda silly.
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
Sidstyler wrote:Tell them you'll send them back, but you want a refund.
what for each modle?
Well, for however many you bought I assume, lol. I wouldn't ask for a refund for the replacements that I didn't exactly pay for, that would be kinda silly.
Funny tho! I may just send back my oringanail and ask for a refund...
I was in my Local GW and I was picking up the new wraiths, FAN FREAKING TASTIC Kit, and I was hoping to pick up Obyron to paint up inbetween squads, I painstakingly searched each one for a suitable figure, there was a total of 6 there, and to my dismay each one either had issues of the hands bubbling to nothing, a void in the top of the warscythe, the knees looking as if acid had been splashed onto the material, and as I was looking the Manager, a fine chap that I have had many games with and am held at a very good standing with, says to me that I can simply fix the issue with greenstuff.... I kindly declined, purchased my wraiths and fancied I should make a whip coil noose as protest and hang myself for him trying to "upsell" from whom I considered a friend. Retail you are a fickle mistress.
Not someone who particularly was bothered by the shift to finecast as I am dark angels and it was going to be a boon to have a light weight Sammael jetbike model
However, 5 months on ... sigh.
In store I actually stood at the counter and made the staff memeber go and open three boxes of the sammael model. Those in the know its a closed box so needed to be opened to really know. I have painted up the model (in my Dakka DA P&M blog) and have just noticed that the haft of the dagger is bent round. Now I know it can be heated and bent and twisted or whatever, but this is attached to his robe and really will mess up the paintwork even if I can effect a good repair.
Similarly on a tangent, having bought and replaced the first two finecast broodlord models, (both of their faces were misaligned) I have noticed the claws are all bent and warped.
After this Ive had it. Im not paying over the odds for bits of crap. Ive gone back into metal models.
My only fear of when DA are re-released and we have any characters solely released in finecast that I am going to be blacklisted by GW when I stand at the till making them open every single model until I'm happy.
I really hope finecast just goes away.
I do commissions - PM me or visit Half God Studios:
Sidstyler wrote:Tell them you'll send them back, but you want a refund.
what for each modle?
Well, for however many you bought I assume, lol. I wouldn't ask for a refund for the replacements that I didn't exactly pay for, that would be kinda silly.
Funny tho! I may just send back my oringanail and ask for a refund...
No, you should send them all back.
You agreed to get a complete model from them in exchange for your money. The amount of refund should be for however much you spent on the figure. If you only send back one, why should they give you a refund? You've still got two models that you could theoretically repair and use.
GW putting out a poor product should not be a windfall.
MiLkiT wrote:I have decided to no longer purchase GW products...
I don't usually mention names but I would like people know whom is responsible for me quitting the hobby...
My painting table sits unused, which is a shame because I love to paint...
Sidstyler wrote:Tell them you'll send them back, but you want a refund.
what for each modle?
Well, for however many you bought I assume, lol. I wouldn't ask for a refund for the replacements that I didn't exactly pay for, that would be kinda silly.
Funny tho! I may just send back my oringanail and ask for a refund...
guys like this is the reason they will start asking for all the models back.
their product sucks but trying to exploit GW isnt right either.
I'm failing to see where the exploitation is. GW has every right to ask for the flawed model in question back, but they don't. Essentially, they let you keep the old flawed model as a "We're sorry you got a sub-par product, please keep this as compensation."
It'd be like if a company sold off stock of TVs, many of which are broken, and with every flawed TV bought, you got a free working TV of the same model when you paid at the register. True, the company is out the cost of two TVs, but as a direct result of them selling a damaged product.
Right now you're arguing whether or not being aware of and taking legal advantage of the "Buy a broken tv, get a working one free" is ethical.
Is it ethical to take advantage of a "buy-one, get-one free" coupon?
Because this is essentially what GW has given their aware consumers thanks to their current return policy combined with their proportion of shoddy results from finecast.
Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.
darkPrince010 wrote:I'm failing to see where the exploitation is. GW has every right to ask for the flawed model in question back, but they don't. Essentially, they let you keep the old flawed model as a "We're sorry you got a sub-par product, please keep this as compensation."
It'd be like if a company sold off stock of TVs, many of which are broken, and with every flawed TV bought, you got a free working TV of the same model when you paid at the register. True, the company is out the cost of two TVs, but as a direct result of them selling a damaged product.
Right now you're arguing whether or not being aware of and taking legal advantage of the "Buy a broken tv, get a working one free" is ethical.
Is it ethical to take advantage of a "buy-one, get-one free" coupon?
Because this is essentially what GW has given their aware consumers thanks to their current return policy combined with their proportion of shoddy results from finecast.
No. This is not the same. For starters, it's the order of cost and type of product. You are comparing a toy against an instrument. If you want a valid comparison, you need to compare like against like. It's like arguind that giving all school-age girls HPV vaccines is sexist.
A buy-one-get-one-free coupon is a buy-one-get-one-free coupon. You would be ill advised not to take advantage of said coupon. Getting a replacement toy, however, and being permitted to keep your defective one is the company covering its but and getting you to deal with its trash. If there is some way that the company can repair the defective product and return it to circulation, then the steps will be taken to retrieve the product. Otherwise, they have to deal with the "garbage", which it's just cheaper to make you keept it. In this case, GW screwed up hard and It's trying to recover cost and make sure people are not taking advantage of it. There are some toys that simply cannot be repaired and depending on the costs, the company will go to the effort of sending you a replacement, without requesting back the original, because it can't be repaired without it actually costing more.
15 successful trades as a buyer;
16 successful trades as a seller;
To glimpse the future, you must look to the past and understand it. Names may change, but human behavior repeats itself. Prophetic insight is nothing more than profound hindsight.
It doesn't matter how bloody far the apple falls from the tree. If the apple fell off of a Granny Smith, that apple is going to grow into a Granny bloody Smith. The only difference is whether that apple grows in the shade of the tree it fell from.
Now we have people actually defending GW from the "evil consumers" that don't wan't a flawed product...
You guys really will put up with anything from GW won't you? Where is your rage and indignation at the company that actually and knowingly puts out flawed and damaged merchandise for sale in the hopes that their core demographic won't know the difference and buy them anyway? Or is that morally justifiable in your little world view?
Now we have people actually defending GW from the "evil consumers" that don't wan't a flawed product...
You guys really will put up with anything from GW won't you? Where is your rage and indignation at the company that actually and knowingly puts out flawed and damaged merchandise for sale in the hopes that their core demographic won't know the difference and buy them anyway? Or is that morally justifiable in your little world view?
hes saying he's recieved three bad replacements and now he wants a refund for each.
or he wants to return ONE, keep the others and get a full refund. you dont see the problem with that?
sounds like GW is tightening up their return policy, pretty obvious why.
]No. This is not the same. For starters, it's the order of cost and type of product. You are comparing a toy against an instrument. If you want a valid comparison, you need to compare like against like.
A valid point, although the same argument could be had if the sale was for a Transformers toy that falls apart when transformed (Both are toys), or a chess set missing all the rooks (Both are games/game pieces).
It's like arguind that giving all school-age girls HPV vaccines is sexist.
Wait, what? You lost me there.
In this case, GW screwed up hard and It's trying to recover cost and make sure people are not taking advantage of it. There are some toys that simply cannot be repaired and depending on the costs, the company will go to the effort of sending you a replacement, without requesting back the original, because it can't be repaired without it actually costing more.
The problem is this whole issue goes away if GW has you return the defective product. They have chosen not to require a physical return in all cases, indicating that they have decided that the lost value of the flawed model is worth not paying for shipping or what have you to return the defective product. Your objection to the return policy "exploitation" would be justifiable if the consumer was avoiding or bending some sort of rule in the process, but it's GW's own return policy that is encouraging this behavior.
If I get a bag of chips/crisps and there's a slice of half-eaten bread, the company provides (in most cases) the ability to call them, to get a free replacement bag under their "Satisfaction Guaranteed" label. In doing so, the company has forfeit the ability to recall the defective bag, thus preventing me from fishing said piece of bread out and having two bags of munchies.
This is something that all GW consumers can exploit, just like everyone can clip coupons from a newspaper. Just because only a few people are speaking up about doing so or because you personally don't take advantage of it does not suddenly make the coupon invalid. Just as you said
You would be ill advised not to take advantage of said coupon.
you're absolutely correct. At best, this might be seen as taking advantage of a misprinted contest that resulted in prizes for far more consumers than originally intended. Taking advantage of this is not immoral, and I would argue that it rather indicates a savvy consumer instead.
Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.
PhantomViper wrote: Or is that morally justifiable in your little world view?
To be fair, immoral actions don't justify an immoral response.
It's just a matter of where you draw the line.
Never said that they did. Just said it was cute that those "moral crusaders" have absolutely no problems with GW's attitude (at least I've never read any outrage concerning their actions coming from them), but the minute a guy heard of a guy that was buying flawed miniatures to complain about them: "holly Kary mother of Jeebus, the sky is falling and you are all guilty of GW's next price hike! You heard that? Its on your head sir, good day!"
[
kb305 wrote:]hes saying he's recieved three bad replacements and now he wants a refund for each.
or he wants to return ONE, keep the others and get a full refund. you dont see the problem with that?
sounds like GW is tightening up their return policy, pretty obvious why.
He didn't say any such thing. Besides, the steps that he will have to take to receive a refund are between him and GW. If he has to send back one model, all three or 0 its none of my business and it should be none of yours as well... GW are big boys, I'm pretty sure that they can take care of themselves when it comes to one big nasty customer asking for a refund.
And if GW is tightening their return policy, then THAT is a very bad thing financially for GW. They didn't allow you to keep the damaged models out of the kindness of their heart, they did it because having a faulty miniature returned at the expense of the company is allot more expensive than just sending a replacement no questions asked! If they start making this return a policy thing (even though they are entirely within their right to do so), they will not only loose whatever good will remained between their customers that still think that GW's CS makes up for their faulty product, all of those mail expenses will start to add up to a pretty big amount.
PhantomViper wrote:
He didn't say any such thing. Besides, the steps that he will have to take to receive a refund are between him and GW. If he has to send back one model, all three or 0 its none of my business and it should be none of yours as well... GW are big boys, I'm pretty sure that they can take care of themselves when it comes to one big nasty customer asking for a refund.
And if GW is tightening their return policy, then THAT is a very bad thing financially for GW. They didn't allow you to keep the damaged models out of the kindness of their heart, they did it because having a faulty miniature returned at the expense of the company is allot more expensive than just sending a replacement no questions asked! If they start making this return a policy thing (even though they are entirely within their right to do so), they will not only loose whatever good will remained between their customers that still think that GW's CS makes up for their faulty product, all of those mail expenses will start to add up to a pretty big amount.
actually he did, clearly and openly. it's not like we even had to read between the lines. maybe learn how to read before you start debating things.
i havnt bought any finecast nor will i until they fix it. maybe it will reach a point where GW will tell you just to deal with it.
kb305 wrote:actually he did, clearly and openly. it's not like we even had to read between the lines. maybe learn how to read before you start debating things.
Since you're apparently a literary expert who feels confident enough to suggest fellow posters are illiterate, could you please back up the first of the two statements you "clearly and openly" found Hazzer stating? If you're going to put words in other people's mouths, you really shouldn't be so surprised or offended when people call you out on it. Go ahead... I'll wait...
kb305 wrote:hes saying he's recieved three bad replacements and now he wants a refund for each.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/15 00:25:30
Sidstyler wrote:Tell them you'll send them back, but you want a refund.
what for each modle?
Well, for however many you bought I assume, lol. I wouldn't ask for a refund for the replacements that I didn't exactly pay for, that would be kinda silly.
Funny tho! I may just send back my oringanail and ask for a refund...
There you go He's not saying he wants a refund for each model, but he is saying he may just send back the original one..... (And yes... I am aware that his use of "Funny tho!" possibly implies that he's joking)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/15 00:34:11
1500pts
Gwar! wrote:Debate it all you want, I just report what the rules actually say. It's up to others to tie their panties in a Knot. I stopped caring long ago.
Life is a journey, shame about the destination..... 
3000+ pts 
1500 pts
3000+ pts 
1000 pts
2000 pts 
2000+ pts
??? pts 
Unkown/1500
)
1500pts