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2021/05/13 22:26:12
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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I mean i'd have nothing against optional female heads of course.
As long as they're optional.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/05/13 22:26:45
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Now I'll say that I would prefer the box to not have a mix of genders because it would limit the amount of options and variety for all of the kit. And I say this as someone that only started stormcast after they started making female ones.
I know that asking for both male and female boxes is unrealistic. Maybe next time they can make other female ogre box with all the love they deserve and not to be just one body and 3 heads in a mixed sprue.
I mean, maybe if they have the same body a couple female heads would be cool but at that point is like making female ogres and aftertought.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 22:30:21
Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2021/05/13 22:30:26
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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To say the quiet part out loud, I think the stakes feel so high because no one really believes we’ll be getting a second ogre box, and especially not a second Landsknecht/Warhammer Empire/Rogue Trader ogre box. Not for many years if ever. So this is the one chance to get such a box made, and if an option is cut it will never make it to plastic.
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2021/05/13 22:51:11
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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Hay guyz. Have you seen these?
Of course, the addition of heads wouldn't be any use on the Ogres, as we all know, females (ogre or otherwise) all have svelte figures, only dress in binkinis or perhaps boob armour, and have giant breasts that could not POSSIBLY be hidden under a normal Maxmillian Breastplate. No woman could ever wear one of those. Ever.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 22:51:26
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2021/05/13 23:02:50
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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Meh, i probably overreacted. Sorry for that.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/05/13 23:06:54
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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I'd be pleased with a few female heads on the ogre sprue you could make believable female warriors as long as you'd got a torso with a metal breastplate that could be imagined to do a decent job of covering a pair of breasts (even floppy landsknecht clothes probably couldn't) I'm less sure making 1 of 3 bodies on the sprue clearly female would make financial sense (but then I didn't come anywhere near thinking this would win either so I could be wrong here too) as some will see it as a box of 8 not 12 if they do (and others will buy when they wouldn't if there were only males) but perhaps they might even manage a micro sprue (like the grognards extra heads came on) with a female torso/body (depending on how they're doing those) if they want to make a female option with a more distinct look.... would an ogre Landsnechtess base her fancy clothes on the male version, or something closer to the fancy clothes of camp followers of the period ? some look like you could use the male arms, other would seem more suitable for a separate female kit as the arms are too distinct from the male style https://www.pinterest.co.uk/fraumagda/doc-trossfrau-camp-frau-camp-followers/ (more options here) that could be quite fun and might give and extra body or two
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/13 23:21:21
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2021/05/13 23:18:01
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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Garfield666 wrote:This thread has turned from a WGA info and appreciation thread into a I hate historical wargamers thread...
Bad vibrations all around, man...
Yea, their is a tendency for that. Automatically Appended Next Post: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:I mean, i'd be against adding female bodies to any Landsknecht kit purely on the basis that there weren't any female Landsknecht.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think my favourite salty comment from Facebook might be the passive-agressive one talking about how they hope WGA will be able to recoup their losses, it takes a certain amount of repressed spite to write that
Didnt we have several poster right here in this thread talking about how will they recoup there losses and that it would likely go out on clearance after release? Automatically Appended Next Post: Azazelx wrote:Hay guyz. Have you seen these?
Of course, the addition of heads wouldn't be any use on the Ogres, as we all know, females (ogre or otherwise) all have svelte figures, only dress in binkinis or perhaps boob armour, and have giant breasts that could not POSSIBLY be hidden under a normal Maxmillian Breastplate. No woman could ever wear one of those. Ever.
To be fair, that upgrade sprue is lip stick on a pig essentially.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/13 23:20:13
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2021/05/13 23:58:42
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Dangerous Outrider
Baltimore, MD USA
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BobtheInquisitor wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote: BlackoCatto wrote:The salt from this forum over the salt from the historicals over the salt from sci-fi over the salt over the historicals is fantastic.
Tbh I am yet to see some place with substantial amount of salt from historical.
Facebook. Some historical poster just put up another “I’m out” post and it got dozens of replies. Then someone proposed adding female options to the ogre sprue and that exploded. If you like the taste of salty tears, WGA’s Facebook is delicious.
I posted the question on Facebook. I asked the moderator if I could do a poll, but he advised to just ask as a question. For the most part it has been pretty civil. Obviously not every one agrees on it. The only real salt was one poster is pretty adamant that women aren’t equal to men fighting and there is no historical examples to prove otherwise. Another poster called him sexist and some other words.
Aside from that one exchange, everything else has been drama free.
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2021/05/14 00:16:51
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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It seems to have mellowed out from early slings of wokeness, warnings that some People would try to get you fired for having an opinion, people using words like crypto-fascist in anticipation of woke posters.l, talk of agendas, speculation on how RGD got female fauns “past” WGA, forcing females into miniature lines is “absurdity”, 1/3 of the kit would be a waste, lots of sarcasm on every side, and some calls for an ogre baby carrier (which actually sounds kind of cool).
So, while the posts have become calmer by volume, there was a lot of the stuff that gets Dakka threads locked.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 00:19:10
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2021/05/14 00:21:48
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Dangerous Outrider
Baltimore, MD USA
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I though the baby carrier sounded pretty cool
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2021/05/14 00:42:35
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote:I mean, i'd be against adding female bodies to any Landsknecht kit purely on the basis that there weren't any female Landsknecht.
Really? Thats where you draw the line? There weren't any Ogre Landsknecht either, females at least actually exist. And people try to say wargaming doesn't have any issues with sexism or misogyny, I am honestly dumbfounded not only by this comment, but how you double, triple, and quadrupled down on your own gak.
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2021/05/14 00:50:26
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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chaos0xomega wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:I mean, i'd be against adding female bodies to any Landsknecht kit purely on the basis that there weren't any female Landsknecht.
Really? Thats where you draw the line? There weren't any Ogre Landsknecht either, females at least actually exist. And people try to say wargaming doesn't have any issues with sexism or misogyny, I am honestly dumbfounded not only by this comment, but how you double, triple, and quadrupled down on your own gak.
And just because Landsknecht weren't Ogres, doesn't mean Landsknecht Ogres also absolutely have to be other things that Landsknecht also happened to not be. Tired of this argument.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/05/14 00:57:29
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote:chaos0xomega wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:I mean, i'd be against adding female bodies to any Landsknecht kit purely on the basis that there weren't any female Landsknecht.
Really? Thats where you draw the line? There weren't any Ogre Landsknecht either, females at least actually exist. And people try to say wargaming doesn't have any issues with sexism or misogyny, I am honestly dumbfounded not only by this comment, but how you double, triple, and quadrupled down on your own gak.
And just because Landsknecht weren't Ogres, doesn't mean Landsknecht Ogres also absolutely have to be other things that Landsknecht also happened to not be. Tired of this argument.
Good. I'm glad you're tired of the terrible argument that you made, and the god-awful discussion that you started. We're one poorly reasoned comment away from debating whether or not women are even real people thanks to you.
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2021/05/14 01:00:57
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Infiltrating Broodlord
Lake County, Illinois
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Actually, having seen that thread on facebook, there was only really one guy being kind of a jerk, calling people sexist and misogynist and accusing them of gatekeeping, and all the dumb things that kind of person says when they have nothing intelligent to add. Aside from that, and a few people saying they want it one way or the other just to annoy the people who want it the other way, it seemed pretty civil. Compared with here.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 08:49:26
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2021/05/14 01:05:19
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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Wha-Mu-077 wrote:chaos0xomega wrote: Wha-Mu-077 wrote:I mean, i'd be against adding female bodies to any Landsknecht kit purely on the basis that there weren't any female Landsknecht.
Really? Thats where you draw the line? There weren't any Ogre Landsknecht either, females at least actually exist. And people try to say wargaming doesn't have any issues with sexism or misogyny, I am honestly dumbfounded not only by this comment, but how you double, triple, and quadrupled down on your own gak.
And just because Landsknecht weren't Ogres, doesn't mean Landsknecht Ogres also absolutely have to be other things that Landsknecht also happened to not be. Tired of this argument.
Right, but that's the thing, they aren't Landsknecht. They are ogres bearing the equipment and clothing associated with Landsknecht.
For them to be literal Landsknecht they would have to be a historical kit, which would thus make them no longer able to be ogres.
So in the hierarchy of importance for this kit I'm pretty sure Ogre comes before Landsknecht.
Bearing that in mind, I'm not aware of any rule or reasonable rationalization regarding ogres that says female ogres wouldn't participate in combat.
So given that female ogres are likely ~50% of the species as someone else pointed out, this is not an unreasonable request.
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2021/05/14 01:16:51
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
The Great State of New Jersey
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-removed-
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 06:13:45
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2021/05/14 02:34:28
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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Okay, realistically, if one torso has a unisex Conquistador-style cuirass (the kind that that looks like a ship's keel) and there's one or two female heads on the sprue, I think that would be decent representation while letting purists still be able to make their LandsOgres all male.
(Or at least that's what I would do if I was designing the sprue...)
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2021/05/14 06:04:59
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Charging Wild Rider
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KidCthulhu wrote:Okay, realistically, if one torso has a unisex Conquistador-style cuirass (the kind that that looks like a ship's keel) and there's one or two female heads on the sprue, I think that would be decent representation while letting purists still be able to make their LandsOgres all male.
(Or at least that's what I would do if I was designing the sprue...)
Yup, I'm basically picturing this figure but with Ogre proportions, which should hide any proportional differences you might otherwise expect between male and female variants (although some of these often feel overstated for what one would expect full-time soldiers of either gender to look like anyway). It's a smashing look, and personally I'd be far more interested in having a few such head options than whatever number of sci-fi parts would be part of the set, simply because sci-fi and Landsknecht clash more in my mind than female and Landsknecht - without wanting to reopen that debate.
(Hasslefree's "Maika von Ostwald" by the way)
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2021/05/14 06:27:45
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer
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That mini is fabulous, and I want her for my Eisen 7th Sea character.
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2021/05/14 07:25:35
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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landsknechts are gakky sauschwaben anyways. Reisläufer is where you find acual competency for money paid, not only did they do it earlier but also better. Way better.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2021/05/14 07:53:19
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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i fully agree, a few male heads should be fine, but it's absurd how people want SO much male representation. Like, sorry sweetie, but this isn't a male hobby, you're looking for the whining club next door.
Also ugh, why the stupid XVI century aesthetic.Hades' hairy beard, warhammer fantasy is dead, you can make fantasy models with different historial period as inspiration...
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2021/05/14 08:05:51
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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Cronch wrote:Also ugh, why the stupid XVI century aesthetic. Hades' hairy beard, warhammer fantasy is dead, you can make fantasy models with different historial period as inspiration...
Probably, because that's what people voted for, and what won the poll. Automatically Appended Next Post: KidCthulhu wrote:Okay, realistically, if one torso has a unisex Conquistador-style cuirass (the kind that that looks like a ship's keel) and there's one or two female heads on the sprue, I think that would be decent representation while letting purists still be able to make their LandsOgres all male.
(Or at least that's what I would do if I was designing the sprue...)
That'd be the ideal solution
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 08:16:24
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/05/14 10:08:14
Subject: Re:Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
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At first I had no interest in the Landsknecht Ogres, but the possibility to use them in Sci-Fi settings has me very intrigued.
On the topic of female parts: the ogres could be made up of a two-part torso, as they might be quite large. So having an either male or female front torso part might be feasible? For me, having the option would be nice, but I am already satisfied with some head options if they don't look to goofy.
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2021/05/14 11:06:55
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Although I was gonna get the kit either way as it was a good bit of fun. Ogres were on ok winner, and with sci fi parts added even better.
Stargrave use somewhere in there hopefully.
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2021/05/14 12:06:02
Subject: Re:Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Storm Trooper with Maglight
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I for one would love to see female options - Ideally more than just heads, but that is at least a start. A female body in there to me at least would make me want to get more of it, not less. Noting that this all follows if the kit is well done, but that would be the exact same stipulation as an all male kit.
Plus, as Ogres are a non-human entity, WA can decide just how much the genders vary - from exactly the same, or almost, to wild things like them reproducing like an Angler Fish, with tiny males latching onto a giant female and slowly molding into her. That and Ogre culture probably does not match 1:1 with 16th century Human culture.
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2021/05/14 13:17:54
Subject: Re:Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Been Around the Block
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kurhanik wrote:Plus, as Ogres are a non-human entity, WA can decide just how much the genders vary - from exactly the same, or almost, to wild things like them reproducing like an Angler Fish, with tiny males latching onto a giant female and slowly molding into her. That and Ogre culture probably does not match 1:1 with 16th century Human culture.
Indeed, people saying that female ogres would be weaker than the males and therefore not fight alongside them are kind of missing the point that it's called fantasy for a reason.
Fantasy, noun "the faculty or activity of imagining impossible or improbable things." (Google Dictionary)
WA are not obligated to conform with anyone else's conception of ogres.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 13:19:06
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2021/05/14 13:26:35
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Infiltrating Broodlord
Lake County, Illinois
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Or, they could just as easily imagine that there are no female ogres. So people saying the kit should have a female option because there are females are obviously missing the point that it's fantasy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/14 14:24:02
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2021/05/14 13:51:01
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sure, but then you have no male ogres either, so any "male" elements like moustaches and beards must go.
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2021/05/14 14:11:50
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Germany
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Cronch wrote:Sure, but then you have no male ogres either, so any "male" elements like moustaches and beards must go.
But it's fantasy, so who says Ogre women don't have humongous beards? I mean, afterall they're not real.
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"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado |
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2021/05/14 14:16:34
Subject: Wargames Atlantic: New kit poll, page 53
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Dangerous Outrider
Baltimore, MD USA
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Albino Squirrel wrote:Or, they could just as easily imagine that there are no female ogres. So people saying they kit should have a female option because there are females are obviously missing the point that it's fantasy.
Wargames Atlantic has kind of stated that females exist. This was Hudson Adams’ (wargames Atlantic) statement when females were first brought up.
“ Actually the lore incorporates women because many of the teams were abducted centuries (even millennia) before the time period. Death Fields is set in approximately 2500 or so. So some teams still have some original members, some are children-great great grandchildren. Owners realized quickly that having their fighters surrounded by families made for better, less rebellious fighters. So female ogres are not out of the question although I don’t know what would make them female AND to be perfectly honest “The Vain” may not fit that idea. (I only came up with the concept last night though so who knows!) – Hudson”
So, he is not sure that females would be in this kit, but dies verify that they are within the fluff. This comment was made before the post on Facebook.
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