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If the current "evil" Chaos gods are reflections of emotions (hate/war, death/disease, excess/pleasure). Then aren't there Gods and other beings in the warp that are an anti-version of the current Chaos gods that are of the postive emotions? Like for example a god of justice? Or even Gods that are based on ones from ancient pre-imperial times?

The old gods are probably all dead, destroyed by the Chaos gods or faded to nothingness due to everyone forgetting them.

However, I believe that the Chaos gods all have a 'good' side or multiple facets. If Khorne is a god of war, then surely he represents not only mindless slaughter, but honour and courage.

Yeah, the Chaos Gods each have their own "good sides". It's just that in a grim dark universe where there is only war, they don't get acknowleged that much.
Tzeentch is the god of Hope and Progress. Khorne is the god of Courage, Skill, and Honour. Slaanesh is the godess of love. Nurgle...ack, I forget what Nurgle is about. Ask Gwar!, I'm sure he knows the answer.

In the first and most ancient tomes known as the Realm of Chaos books, this was explained thusly:

Khorne also was a god of martial honour, courage and bravery.

Slaanesh also was a god of experiences, sensations and self perfection.

Tzeetch also was a god of hope, magic and intellect.

Nurgle also was a god of resilience, stoicism and defiance in the face of adversity.


Chaos, because your worth it...

Epsilon wrote:Ask Gwar!, I'm sure he knows the answer.

Nice

Nurgle I would see as rebirth. I mean, something dies and is then transformed into something useful. I guess.

Don't forget there are tons of other Powerful chaos entities, but those 4 are the most powerful.

Lets all not forget Malal, the 5th secret Anti-Chaos Chaos God, and the Star Child, who is as close to a Chaos God as anything else can be.

I'm gonna get all zen on you folks: The Chaos gods aren't evil, they just are....


seriously though, they're as evil as the zeitgeist of the universe. Which, admittedly, is like 80% evil anyway, I think they all represent things that aren't *necessarily* evil.

Khorne: space marines are the "good guys", but they kill and maim and slaughter 24/7....

Nurgle: he's as close to a god of creation as we're gonna get: things must die so the cycle of life may continue.

Tzeentch: change is neutral. things get better, things get worse, the change itself is neither.

Slaanesh: the god of sensations. good ones, bad ones, all of them.

Gwar! wrote:

Epsilon wrote:Ask Gwar!, I'm sure he knows the answer.

Nice

Lets all not forget Malal, the 5th secret Anti-Chaos Chaos God, and the Star Child, who is as close to a Chaos God as anything else can be.

I heard that Malal was either no longer cannon or was destoryed by the other chaos gods...

tigonesskay wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Epsilon wrote:Ask Gwar!, I'm sure he knows the answer.

Nice

Lets all not forget Malal, the 5th secret Anti-Chaos Chaos God, and the Star Child, who is as close to a Chaos God as anything else can be.

I heard that Malal was either no longer cannon or was destoryed by the other chaos gods...

Nah he is still cannon, just never mentioned cause of Copyright reasons

What if the Emperor was simply a manifestation of a 'Good Chaos God?'. That way every single Living Saint is another manifestation. It's just that the emperor was the biggest manifestation. All those rightous vibes given out by the battle sisters must be taking some form in the warp.

No, the Emperor was an amalgamation of thousands of shamans who all killed themselves together and reincarnated as one powerful soul because the warp was becoming turbulent and eating the shamans souls.

Aswell as all those shamens souls, all the good gods too. Eaten, by the warp.

tigonesskay wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Epsilon wrote:Ask Gwar!, I'm sure he knows the answer.

Nice

Lets all not forget Malal, the 5th secret Anti-Chaos Chaos God, and the Star Child, who is as close to a Chaos God as anything else can be.

I heard that Malal was either no longer cannon or was destoryed by the other chaos gods...

Nids got him

In the end, all gods are irrelevant. There is only Sly Marbo.

Cheese Elemental wrote:In the end, all gods are irrelevant. There is only Sly Marbo.

True statement. Also yarrick you can';t forget Yarrick, the reincarnation of Chuck Norris.

Fluffwise as noted the Big 4 are just the Big 4. There are a plethora of other warp spirits on the chaos front as well as warp space in general: the eldar "gods", orks Gods. Its my understanding the Ork gods are the real powers in warpspace-just ask the orks. We also know from fluff of the Emperor's tarot, various saints and other supranatural events predicated around the Emperor or Humanity leading to the theory that the Emperor is now himself a warp entity or his intellect is the warp and is powerful enough to have similar effects.

There's no reason fluffwise that other "Law" chaos beings are not present. They could be separate or alter egos of the Big 4.

Well one could consider Tyranids to be the "law" aspect of the Immaterium. When they arrive the Shadow in the Warp Nullifies the "movement" of the Immaterium, which is why communications and such are blocked.

I'd posit they are more raw power. The same effect would happen if you gathered a gazilian orks at one point in space-the raw psychic power is like a freighter moving therough the ocean throwing waves port and starboard.

By law I mean order (no pun intended), anti woo woo bad guy skulls lets kill all humans chaos. In actuality the Big 4 would have no interest in wiping out humanity like they seem bent on. Its literally killing off their food source. No emotion no chaos. Emo kids (eldar) rule again.

Frazzled wrote:I'd posit they are more raw power. The same effect would happen if you gathered a gazilian orks at one point in space-the raw psychic power is like a freighter moving therough the ocean throwing waves port and starboard.

By law I mean order (no pun intended), anti woo woo bad guy skulls lets kill all humans chaos. In actuality the Big 4 would have no interest in wiping out humanity like they seem bent on. Its literally killing off their food source. No emotion no chaos. Emo kids (eldar) rule again.

Chaos have never wanted to kill off humanity, they just want to kill off the Emperor. Necrons are the ones who want to kill all life, so that the warp dies.

And orks are different to nids. Orks Create excessive amounts of turbulence in the warp. The Nids kill all Turbulence. Imagine orks as a Hurricane while the Nids are the Horse Latitudes. You're still dead, just one way is different to the other

I'd proffer current fluff chaos is pretty killy killy. that really is GW's fault as was more balanced earlier.

Nurgle makes diseases to kill things, Khorne wants to kill everything, Slaanesh 's more beneficient pasttimes are not mentioned, Tzeenthc does well-who knows.
inevitably chaos incursions results in 80 gazillion people being sacrificed at an atlar or boiled down to a thimble full of essence that some some chaos marine uses as an after dinner drink. On the positive 7 marines led by sergeant Ogrebrain will save the system shortly thereafter.

Gwar! wrote:Well one could consider Tyranids to be the "law" aspect of the Immaterium. When they arrive the Shadow in the Warp Nullifies the "movement" of the Immaterium, which is why communications and such are blocked.

If Tyranids are anything then they are the embodiment of hunger. Undying, eternal hunger. Besides I thought that the warp didn't even register 'Nids?

I think that the 'Big 4' are the only beings strong enough to act on thier own. With their own armies. The other gods were either absorbed, or are passing thier will on through the mortal races (i.e. Gork/Mork for the Orks. Khaine/Laughing God for the Eldar, Emperor(or whatever drove him) for Humanity.)

Of the 5 known Chaos Gods. (Going with Gwar! on this. Malal is still canon.)

I would say Papa Nurgle is the one that could almost be considered "good". I mean, he is a nice guy, he has a whole planet that dances all day.

He just wants to experiment on you.....

Planet that dance all day?

And yes he his nice. In a stalker, slavering Grima Wormtounge kind of way...(look at back of deamon codex for story of Isha)

Anyway, his personal hygene is dreadfull.

IMO Chaos Gods are evil, they were created from the raw evil emotions of living things, such as humans, eldar, etc. killing each other and waging war created Khorne then the urge to do this increased ten fold. Same with the others Slaanesh from the races constant pursuit of unattainable perfection, seeking of pleasures, etc. Tzeetch the the unquenchable thirst for knowledge cause of course "knowledge is power" and thus races were greedy with power unearthing long lost knowledge and losing themselves in the pursuit of knowledge creating yours truly Tzeecth. Nurgle dont know how people would create him from there emotions, maybe example is people knowing they have a disease and spreading it so they wont be alone? lol But Nurgle seems kinda like an ass infecting you and making you feel pain till you beg him to it away and force you to join him or back with the pain. Even tho living beings created them, there actions are still evil sacrificing billions for a freakin throne, doing unmentionable things to peps that you dont even know that well, makin peps minds explode and havin daemons pop out of em doesn't sound like it feels good either. Of course everyone's definition of whats evil is different then the next guys or gals.

Lord Chiasson wrote:IMO Chaos Gods are evil

Khorn is also made in part from Courage and Honour. Tzeentch is also in part made from curiosity and the thirst for Knowledge. Nurgle is in part made from the desire of rebirth. Slaanesh is in part made from the emotions of love.

Chaos gods are not all evil

Ok so not 'all' evil.
70/30 split? Either way the topic IIRC ws goodun's yes?
Mercy? (HERESY) Pride? Humility?

Justice?
Peace? (That god died off a while ago)
Friendship?
Jokes? (Eldar laughing god)
Then again all but justice would be kind of wimpy gods.

Hmmmmmm...Tyranids could be the god of hunger! NOM NOM NOM!!!!

Gwar! wrote:

Lord Chiasson wrote:IMO Chaos Gods are evil

Khorn is also made in part from Courage and Honour. Tzeentch is also in part made from curiosity and the thirst for Knowledge. Nurgle is in part made from the desire of rebirth. Slaanesh is in part made from the emotions of love.

Chaos gods are not all evil

Yeah, but lets face it. They always wake up on the wrong side of the warp.....

Chaos gods arn't evil nag, nag, nag...

Of course they're fething evil. You don't get much more evil then the chaos gods.

Im not sure all Chaos gods are evil, but 4 big ones(Khorne, Slanessh, Tzeecth and Nurgle) are.I mean having your followers make sacrifices to you with people who have no idea who you are and or spreading your diseases when they don't want em, sounds kinda evil to me. Forcing your will on another without consent= evil in my book. But again whats evil and whats not is entirely in the eye of the beholder tho. Whats evil to me could be perfectly normal to the next guy or gal

Emperors Faithful wrote:Chaos gods arn't evil nag, nag, nag...

Of course they're fething evil. You don't get much more evil then the chaos gods.

You seem conviced.

Explain why "You don't get much more evil then the chaos gods" please.

Ummmmm...
Well Gwar I really had to think about that...

Let's see...Sluaghtering thousands of innocents (term used loosely) for a laugh, corrupting and demoralising good people (again used loosely) for a laugh. Having their followers kill/rape/infect/corrupt thier victims?

Does "Pure Evil" ring any bells there?