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This, basically, is a list of the things I think are wrong with GW, categorised too!

Disclaimer: All these things are my opinion, feel free to disagree

The Models Themselves

Not much wrong with these except that they are WAY overpriced IMO, I appreciate that Oil prices have an effect on plastic but £25 for 10 plastic Greatswords is ridiculous, GW also seem to be heading along the 'Less for More' path, I notice that Battleforces/Battallions, which cost £40 not too long ago, now contain less models and cost £60 in some cases!

I also have a bone to pick with LotR, it seemed to be mainly an excuse for selling millions of the same model, but in different poses, wielding a different weapon, on a horse, wearing a hat etc. If GW wanted that much variety, why don't they make LotR characters as plastic kits?

The Website

FAR inferior to the old one, all the old articles are gone (just about) and replaced with ones such as 'let's tell you how to glue this together', the ordering section infuriates me too, despite the fact your paying an arm and a leg for your models in the first place, GW force you to pay £4 for P&P! £8 for express delivery! I live in the UK and this is what they charge me! The ordering process is difficult as well, for example, Bits & Kits (A company I sing the praises of BTW) have a clear, concise order form that explains everything to me, they charge £1 for P&P (reasonable) and £0 for orders of £15 or more, and the order usually arrives within 2 days, GW on the other hand, their Order form doesn't help you at all, they charge £4 for P&P and an order I placed roughly 6 weeks ago still hasn't arrived!

Codices/Army Books

IMO, when a new codex comes out, it leaps ahead of all the others (WHFB Army Books do this less TBH) this means that players of armies with old, dated codices (I.E. Inquisition, Necron and DE players) have to work hard (even resorting to beardiness) in order to compete with the latest releases

The other thing that annoys me is that the Fiction in Codices and Army Books is VERY weak, the stories seem to go with the rule that 'quality doesn't matter as long as we include every special character in the book'

White Dwarf

ahh, the glory days of WD, when the articles were useful and fun to read and the magazine seemed to have a soul...

Nowadays, WD is little more than a catalogue, the articles tend to say 'you'll have great fun if you buy this...'
I suppose the main reason for this is that WD is heavily biased, it is published by GW themselves so it won't point out the flaws in anything

Also, the pricing's a bit steep isn't it?

Specialist Games
Never get mentioned now, save the odd nod in Standard Bearer in WD or the notification of some event (which is usually Blood Bowl) there is such a large amount of potential for GW if they went about reintroducing these classic game systems

In-Store

Now, this might just be related to me but at my local GW (which will remain unnamed to avoid offence) a lot of the people within are slack-jawed idiots, one such example being when I made a joke about giving my WoC Warhounds asymmetrical horns by saying "Symmetry is for the Weak!" And one idiot said "Durr, don't you meen sanitee liek in dorn of warrz?" I was tempted to smack him. Either that or they are arrogant fethers who belittle anyone who can't paint (but really wants to improve)


Rant Over, for now...

Ahh the utter beauty of "choice"......the answer to all your woes can be found in the lexicon of CHOICE

1. Choose not to buy the miniatures.
2. Choose not to use the website....who does anyway.
3. Choose not to buy the latest Codex, or rather simply update your foces using the latest Codex.
3. Choose not to buy White Dwarf.....buy Autotrader instead, and look at the pretty cars.
4. Choose to let the Specialist Games die a glorius death, or play them without the support of preachy GW.
5. Finally, like any store out there, realise there is competition...explore and find the best for you!

You could always walk into a closet, scream at the walls, and then talk to yourself about all the stuff you don't like about GW.

P4NC4K3 wrote:The Models Themselves Not much wrong with these except that they are WAY overpriced IMO,

The Website GW force you to pay £4 for P&P! £8 for express delivery!

Codices/Army Books IMO, when a new codex comes out, it leaps ahead of all the others (WHFB Army Books do this less TBH)

White DwarfNowadays, WD is little more than a catalogue,

Specialist Games Never get mentioned now,

In-StoreNow, this might just be related to me but at my local GW (which will remain unnamed to avoid offence) a lot of the people within are slack-jawed idiots,

Have you looked at the price of Warmachine / Hordes models? Model for model, PP makes GW look dirt cheap.

Who orders at full retail form GW direct? Doesn't everybody buy from Internet discounters?

LOL. WFB Daemons is one of the newest WFB armies, and it jumped right to Tier 1 in power. WFB has the biggest problem with "creep" of any of GW's systems.

Who buys WD? It's crap, aside from Jervis' Standard Bearer - that's great reading material, but nowhere near worth $10 for just a couple pages of pontificating from the ivory tower.

SG don't need mention, unless something is going to get overhauled. They're small games with small revenue, that do just fine by themselves. Now, if they get shut down, that's cause for concern. Otherwise, meh.

Why do you need to play at a GW store? And if they're mostly idiots, and you keep going back, what does that make you?

I don't see anything here that hasn't been said a million times before.

If something costs too much, don't buy it. You're buying little plastic men, not bread to feed your family.

Ignore those jaded, cynical responses, Pancake. We all of us have, at one time or another, howled the same cries of frustration into the uncaring skies, or poured our lamentations into the sympathetic ears of our fellow gamers at the FLGS. We feel your pain!

You've just, you know, posted the exact same complaints that we've heard (made!) before, so we're maybe a little, I don't know... bored? From me, it is a heartfelt expression of frustrated passion. From you, it's whining.

I agree with you pancake , pay no attention to the "dont like it dont buy it crowd"

2 simple reasons:

1) GW wasnt always this bad . How they changed into this = what you are frustrated about yes?

2) I say pay no attention because they just havnt reached their threshhold yet.

My faith...crushed...

The complaints too numerous, too forceful...

Help...me...

1:dont like the models? Dont buy them.
2:dont like the website? Dont got to it.
3:dont like the rules? dont play the game.
4:hate white drawf? dont buy it.
5: specialist games suck anyway.
6:dont like the store? buy offline.
seriously i think this is bull.
I hate football but you dont see me trying out for the team do you.
if you dont like a game dont play it.
question: seems you hate everything about the game.
then why do you put up with it and play?

5: specialist games suck anyway.

You watch your mouth.

question: seems you hate everything about the game.
then why do you put up with it and play?

If you can't stand people voicing their opinions on a public forum and complaining about their least favorite aspects of the hobby with likeminded individuals then why do you put up with it and post here?

I love the people who use the prices as the #1 complaint.

Have you looked at the prices of metal kits from Privateer or West Wind Games? West Wind, while being sorta cheaper...also has a buttload of miscasts, a ridiculous turnaround time on orders(on par with the complaints most people have in regards to Forge World, actually. Even though I have *yet* to have an issue with FW, having ordered Inquisitor Rex and a Khorne Daemon Prince with Herald on Thursday, and it being scheduled for delivery on Tuesday), and a website that makes GW's look like a work of art.

Look, I get it. GW's prices are ridiculous compared to Tamiya models or Dragon or Haesagawa or the Gundam kits. I get it, I really do.
And yeah, it's annoying. Especially now that my FLGS that I used to get a 30% discount at, and was the *only* place I would ever shop has shut down because of the economy.

But did you really decide to get into a *hobby* and not expect to have to drop cash?

It just get annoying after awhile. They hate everything yet they still play. Its like people who complain about elections but did'nt vote.
Also about the site: if you dont want to order from the website then order straight from the store. Thats what i do

I don't understand the vitriol I read about GW on these forums.

All the complaints that GW is this and that, yet still people buy and play their games.

If you don't like what GW is doing stop supporting them! No one is forcing you to play their games!

The Models Themselves -

So what? buy them on ebay.

The Website-

So what? Use dakka, there is a lot of stuff here too like the teach on competition. An if you still don't get how to do something you can ask.

Codices/Army Books-

So what? If they aint worth buying than download them. Just don't tell anybody

White Dwarf -

Yes its a shame, but then again, use dakka.

Specialist Games -

you are right, in fact I know almost nothing about this.

In-Store-

seems to be a common problem. But look for the good ones! they are out there.

LunaHound wrote:
I agree with you pancake , pay no attention to the "dont like it dont buy it crowd"

2 simple reasons:

1) GW wasnt always this bad . How they changed into this = what you are frustrated about yes?

2) I say pay no attention because they just havnt reached their threshhold yet.

Yep, that's about right


I appear to have stirred up rage, oh no...
well, I won't let it get to me, there are better things in life to do than worry about people who are getting worked up about the reasons you don't like toys...

@ P4NC4K3

Dude, I apologise if my response came across as "rage" or even displeasure at your venting.

But, if you'll allow me to, heres my counter "vent".....it really burns my ass when people come on to places like this and literally turn their backs on GW, now hear me out!

I'm not saying its not warrented, in some respects it is, but the thing that burns me, is there are so many other games out there...crying out for, no, screaming out for your attention, needing your coinage and time in order to even compete with GW.

If you feel so badly about the treatment that GW is handing you, then yes, you can come online and moan about it, orrrr.....you could spend the time, playing and then, hopefully, bigging up the alternative games you've found!

These other games need to be talked about, and advertised. This whole thread could be dedicated to something ultimately better than "isn't GW crap!". Like so many have already said, you can do a quick search, and you'll find loads of threads about the hate of GW.....lets not give them any more free advertising, cause even negative feedback is feedback!

You have irritated the fanbois, pay no heed.

"If you don't like the price, why play the game?!?!?!?!?11111?"

Because I love the game, I love the lore and most of the minis, I have a group of 12 friends who play (all...sorry ALL of whom are now no longer increasing their army sizes or buying new armies, all...sorry ALL of whom Would have but for the OVERPRICING OF A PRODUCT THEY LIKE).

What kind of gak comes up with a line like "Well, if you don't like the price, go do something else!!?!?"

As a consumer of a product, you can find fault in it, you can complain about price increases, as someone who's been into this gak for 20 fething years I can certainly see a fair amount I am not impressed with. What those in defence of GW aren't quite getting is that many of us who are not impressed have not just 'joined', some of us have witnesses, over the course of time longer than the lifespan of some folks posting here, the slow and inexorable deterioration of the HOBBY that is warhammer/40K.

As a professionally employed adult with a good wage takehome, I will complete my ork army and then cease on GW products, in the meanwhile and even afterwards, if I want to rant on this forum about the greed and lack of interest in their customers being demonstrated on a daily basis by this company, THEN I WILL.

To all those making a comparison about WM/Horde prices to GWs, how many figures do I need to play WM instead? I suspect only a handful.

garret wrote:It just get annoying after awhile. They hate everything yet they still play. Its like people who complain about elections but did'nt vote.

Uh...no, it's not like that at all, actually. If anything it'd be like complaining about the guy you voted for when he doesn't live up to your expectations, which most people would say you earned the right to do by supporting him in the first place.

The guy has every right to bitch because he's given GW so much money. In your opinion, playing a GW game at one time, any time in your life, means you can never ever complain about anything they do and if you do you're a hypocrite because you played their games? Doesn't make much sense.

I stand by what I said, if you get tired of reading about the bitching then take your own advice and just don't read it. These threads are pretty much always clearly labeled, don't tell me you were tricked into reading this thread by the title. "Annoyance? Annoyance at what, I wonder...oh FFS, he's bitching about GW, I didn't see that coming AT ALL!"

I don't understand the vitriol I read about GW on these forums.

Then you haven't been paying much attention.

If you don't like what GW is doing stop supporting them! No one is forcing you to play their games!

Does simply playing the game count as supporting them? You're not buying new stuff and giving them more money, you're just using the old stuff you already paid them for.

it really burns my ass when people come on to places like this and literally turn their backs on GW

Why do you care so much? And why the feth can't you people just fething ignore it if it burns your ass so much?

These other games need to be talked about, and advertised. This whole thread could be dedicated to something ultimately better than "isn't GW crap!". Like so many have already said, you can do a quick search, and you'll find loads of threads about the hate of GW.....lets not give them any more free advertising, cause even negative feedback is feedback!

Yeah, most companies love negative feedback. Losing potential customers and more money isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing!

Because I love the game, I love the lore and most of the minis, I have a group of 12 friends who play (all...sorry ALL of whom are now no longer increasing their army sizes or buying new armies, all...sorry ALL of whom Would have but for the OVERPRICING OF A PRODUCT THEY LIKE).

What kind of gak comes up with a line like "Well, if you don't like the price, go do something else!!?!?"

As a consumer of a product, you can find fault in it, you can complain about price increases, as someone who's been into this gak for 20 fething years I can certainly see a fair amount I am not impressed with. What those in defence of GW aren't quite getting is that many of us who are not impressed have not just 'joined', some of us have witnesses, over the course of time longer than the lifespan of some folks posting here, the slow and inexorable deterioration of the HOBBY that is warhammer/40K.

As a professionally employed adult with a good wage takehome, I will complete my ork army and then cease on GW products, in the meanwhile and even afterwards, if I want to rant on this forum about the greed and lack of interest in their customers being demonstrated on a daily basis by this company, THEN I WILL.

Good points. Hopefully some people watching this thread will learn a thing or two and stop preaching this "DON'T PLAY THE GAME THEN IF U DON'T LYK THE PRICES!" crap, because that really burns my ass.

Recommendation: Play a different game.

Recommendations:

Research other miniature companies for building your armies with alternative minis.
Write into GW and explain in a polite way why this leisure activity is no longer financially viable.

I like the models, but I don't like the game. It's perfectly okay to complain about
the company. However, I think we make the mistake in thinking of our armies as
investments in a gaming system rather than as end products, which is what they
are. I know it hurts to hear this, but models are what you pay for when you buy
models, and rules are what you pay for when you buy rules. When the system
shifts and changes, you still have what you paid for. You're just not getting the
continuing value of having something that works well in the current edition.

You don't have a right to complain because you've spent x amount of dollars. You
have a right to complain because you have the potential to spend x amount of future
dollars.

Hrm, that sounds odd. I'll have to rethink this.

fellblade wrote:Ignore those jaded, cynical responses, Pancake. We all of us have, at one time or another, howled the same cries of frustration into the uncaring skies, or poured our lamentations into the sympathetic ears of our fellow gamers at the FLGS. We feel your pain!

You've just, you know, posted the exact same complaints that we've heard (made!) before, so we're maybe a little, I don't know... bored? From me, it is a heartfelt expression of frustrated passion. From you, it's whining.

LunaHound wrote:
I agree with you pancake , pay no attention to the "dont like it dont buy it crowd"

2 simple reasons:

1) GW wasnt always this bad . How they changed into this = what you are frustrated about yes?

2) I say pay no attention because they just havnt reached their threshhold yet.

I agree with you and LunaHound and fellblade! Mostly.

I do have to say that these complaints with GW have been around since at least the mid 90s. Heck, I quit playing around '97/'98 for these same exact reasons.

I can't say GW has ever been "better" as my own experience shows that when I am enamored with the game and various models, my level of frustration is lower. They may have waxed and waned through the years but they are a company out to make money first. And White Dwarf, IMO has always been a GW Propaganda catalog since I can remember. I've been playing since '87.

When it comes right down to it. I love the fluff, I love the races, I love the game (okay, like the game). Problems and all.

I will also state that I personally have had nothing but good experiences with GW Customer Service in regards to fixing a problem with a model already purchased (e.g. damaged sprues or pewters, wrong parts, etc.).

I've played many of the competitions games. They aren't any better. The miniatures hobby is largely a captive one with people willing to spend inordinate amounts of money on things no where near that moneys worth. They do this because they largely don't have much else to do.

Vote with your wallet, but keep in mind, the competition isn't any better or cheaper. You think squad prices are bad? Try purchasing infantry for warmachine in any respectable number.

P4NC4K3 wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
I agree with you pancake , pay no attention to the "dont like it dont buy it crowd"

2 simple reasons:

1) GW wasnt always this bad . How they changed into this = what you are frustrated about yes?

2) I say pay no attention because they just havnt reached their threshhold yet.

Yep, that's about right


I appear to have stirred up rage, oh no...
well, I won't let it get to me, there are better things in life to do than worry about people who are getting worked up about the reasons you don't like toys...

Hah, you come to a public forum and get all worked up about your toy soldiers. Then say you there are better things in life than to get worked up about toy soldiers.
Are you just confused, or have you seen the light and realize your error.)

Mostly people vent against your vent because your rage is boring, it's all been heard a hundred times.

mikhaila wrote:
Hah, you come to a public forum and get all worked up about your toy soldiers.

on a forum about those toy soldiers... And he's having a moment of clarity, we don't snipe at that, we congratulate him.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

mikhaila wrote:
Hah, you come to a public forum and get all worked up about your toy soldiers.

on a forum about those toy soldiers... And he's having a moment of clarity, we don't snipe at that, we congratulate him.

P4NC4K3 took the red pill.

Sidstyler wrote:

it really burns my ass when people come on to places like this and literally turn their backs on GW

Why do you care so much? And why the feth can't you people just fething ignore it if it burns your ass so much?

These other games need to be talked about, and advertised. This whole thread could be dedicated to something ultimately better than "isn't GW crap!". Like so many have already said, you can do a quick search, and you'll find loads of threads about the hate of GW.....lets not give them any more free advertising, cause even negative feedback is feedback!

Yeah, most companies love negative feedback. Losing potential customers and more money isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing!

Dude, if you're going to go to the trouble of quoting me, at least do me the courtesy of trying to understand my point. Listen, if you and everyone else wants to pant hot air onto an internet forum, please go ahead and have a blast.

garret wrote:1:dont like the models? Dont buy them.
2:dont like the website? Dont got to it.
3:dont like the rules? dont play the game.
4:hate white drawf? dont buy it.
5: specialist games suck anyway.
6:dont like the store? buy offline.
seriously i think this is bull.
I hate football but you dont see me trying out for the team do you.
if you dont like a game dont play it.
question: seems you hate everything about the game.
then why do you put up with it and play?

lol, and he has a Halo avatar to boot, explains alot

I can't stand the don't like it don't buy it crowd.

Simply for the reason you can't get Warhammer 40k minis from anyone else. They know it and exploit the crap out of it.

Show me somewhere else I can buy WH40k models that I can use in game shop play because there are non and redshirts are picky about what we bring into the store.


I with it were like many other hobbies. Bike riding doesn't require you to buy your bikes from only one place. There's many manufacturers, some are cheap and some are expensive, but you can get by on cheap. With GW there's only their price. It can't be cheap or expensive because there's not other retailers to compare it to.

For those of you who say run things counts-as from another retailer that doesn't go in tournies or GW shop play sorry. Also not a single one has an ENTIRE WH40k similar line to counts-as.

They produce all the models for every army. Third parties maybe can get us counts-as for one of those. It's not efficient.

You don't have a right to be annoyed. Everyone who plays this game knows how expensive it is.

On a personal note I don't like the prices either, but I still buy. Granted I buy less then I would had they been cheaper but I still buy. Reason being is stated above. There's no place else to get them. So slow purchasing for me.

Gandair wrote:
and exploit the crap out of it.

Unless you have financial data that shows that they are exploiting something, you're being stupid.

Let's assume that the guys running GW aren't a couple of college dropouts, but, are in fact, professionals running a publicly traded multi-million pound international company.

Let's assume that they took basic economics and understand the idea that if they raise prices, fewer people will buy things, whereas, if they lower prices, more people will.

Now, let's assume that they have more data to work with about their company's financial situation than you do.

Do any of those assumptions seem unreasonable?

The cost of a mini is not just the cost of the plastic. It's also the cost of the mold, the cost of the salary of the sculptor, the cost of the 'eavy metal painter's salary who paints the model that's used on the box cover, the cost of the game designer's salary who writes the rules that will apply to the mini, the cost of the building where these people work, and the cost of the warehouses where the unsold products are stored - to say the least.

Do you think that Privateer Press doesn't wish that they could totally undercut GW's prices and really start stealing customers? Oh, look, they can't - it's not cheap to make quality miniatures. Look at Hasslefree minis. He's an owner-operator with low overhead (no large staffing costs, really only himself doing the sculpting, small press runs of figures, and so on) and he charges as much for single minis as GW does.

GW has done a lot of cost-cutting this last year, in an effort to avoid having to raise prices even further than they have. There is a point at which prices cannot be lowered. You cannot sell something at a loss and make up the difference in volume - the internet companies in the late 90's proved that.

You can whine all day about how you cannot afford a luxury hobby, and, that's fair. But claiming that their pricing structure is exploitive is just stupid. The people running this multi-million pound international corporation are not idiots and they do understand economics. You can't produce quality miniatures cheaply, and you can't sell things for less than it costs you to make them. If you want to claim their acting in an exploitive fashion, back it up with data. Otherwise, simply look at the other companies operating in the same market space and realize that GW's prices aren't out of line with anyone else producing minis of the same quality.