Kingdom Death : Monster - Official Kickstarter Thread

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**Nakiro**

Here's hoping for November but if I have to wait a little longer I won't complain either.

**Fafnir**

So long as he ships at a point when my living arrangements are consistent, I'll be happy.

**RiTides**

Dentry wrote:

"What if RiTides is right and I can't make the deadline? What if I let the backers down?"

I can see how it might be upsetting for people to imagine - correctly or incorrectly - that effort is being diverted elsewhere when Adam's already made a commitment to the KD:M backers. Personally it doesn't bother me since I'm assuming he's got some downtime from the production of things and devotes that to continuing the boutique side of Kingdom Death. i.e. It's not directly interfering with KD:M.

What does bother me is constantly missing out when these danged models come out!

Lol

nice post. Love the emo pic (I assume that is Poots himself)

Alpharius also makes some great points. I'll be watching this with a lot of interest

while I wait for my kickstarters that ended significantly earlier than KD to actually ship

**Dentry**

(Yep that pic is Poots)

From comments: Link

Kingdom Death wrote:I would like to release the RESIN Dung Beetle Knight ( NO RULES ) with next months resin releases. As a backer would you A ) understand that this is not the same product as the plastic version or B ) Feel some how butthurt or upset Thanks~

Kingdom Death wrote:I don't think its really good faith to release anything new that was available during the kickstarter before backers get their rewards. This is a Resin Collectors piece that was not available, however the plastic version was available. So I could see that potentially confusing some backers.

Well, that could have been phrased better, I think.

No resin version of the Dung Beetle Knight was offered during the KS but it might be harder for people to swallow, as Poots himself alludes to, seeing models from the KD:M KS being sold even if they're not the actual product we'll be receiving during fulfillment.

Another one of his comments mentions showcasing the plastic used in final production at some point mid-August. He seems rather happy with it from what I can tell.

**RiTides**

Calling your ~~backers~~ customers "butthurt"- not a good idea...

Releasing a sculpt in resin that you have yet to deliver in plastic from the kickstarter- also, not a good idea!

That's a pretty poor form post, and would be an even poorer form decision if he did decide to sell that model from the kickstarter, simply in a different material, and call it an entirely different product. It's not that backers are "easily confused"... it's that they paid hundreds of dollars for those models, and are waiting until the end of the year... and in all likelihood, much longer.

To take their money upfront, then offer the product in a different (perhaps even more desirable) medium afterwards for immediate purchase rather than a year+ wait... how could that possibly be a good business / PR decision?

**Cyporiean**

Also posting it only in comments, rather then throwing up an update so that it might be seen is poor form.

I would have rather bought a resin Beetle then the plastic one...

**RiTides**

Yeah, you beat my edit, but that's exactly what I think- that many people would've preferred paying more for a resin beetle. And they could get it now rather than wait. Clearly, that is a very bad idea to offer before delivering on the campaign!

**Still Standing**

I got everything available in resin on the KS... Now I have to buy another Dung Beatle!

**Baragash**

RiTides wrote:
Calling your ~~backers~~ customers "butthurt"- not a good idea...

Releasing a sculpt in resin that you have yet to deliver in plastic from the kickstarter- also, not a good idea!

That's a pretty poor form post, and would be an even poorer form decision if he did decide to sell that model from the kickstarter, simply in a different material, and call it an entirely different product. It's not that backers are "easily confused"... it's that they paid hundreds of dollars for those models, and are waiting until the end of the year... and in all likelihood, much longer.

To take their money upfront, then offer the product in a different (perhaps even more desirable) medium afterwards for immediate purchase rather than a year+ wait... how could that possibly be a good business / PR decision?

I skimmed through the comments earlier and that doesn't seem like an accurate characterisation of the situation *shrugs* it.s 23.14 I'm not going to go back through the comments to prove it though,

I backed for everything that was part of the game ($685), I'm perfectly happy for him to sell the resin version (and FYI there's 450 units of it so if it does go on sale and you want it, be quick).

**DaveC**

Bit of a non issue this one update #30 (posted December 16th 2012) clearly states it wouldn't be available in Resin during the KS but would be released during 2013 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster/posts/370081

650K has been passed and with it, we have reached funding for one of my personal favorite Kingdom Death miniatures, the Dung Beetle Knight! You can add the expansion to your rewards by adding +$25 (MSRP $35) to your pledge total. I will not be offering a resin version of him thru this kickstarter. His resin version with no game rules, will be released sometime 2013.

I think Adam adequately covered himself there and is free to sell the resin version.

**Alpharius**

Looks like he's covered OK then...

Shocking to see RiTides in here stirin' the pot though!

**RiTides**

The pot she needs a'stirrin'

Not so bad, though, if he noted during the campaign that he'd be offering it for sale in resin later- that way, backers who wanted it in resin could've waited. If this was coming out of the blue, it'd be worse.

Still, I can't imagine most backers actually saw that line... or remembered it when it came time to finalize their pledges.

**Hands back long wooden spoon**

**Dentry**

DaveC wrote:
I think Adam adequately covered himself there and is free to sell the resin version.

It's curious though that he's waiting for backer feedback before coming to a decision when the decision appears to have been made during the actual KS. Did people raise a big stink with the recent resin releases or something? He menitons concern over 'customer' satisfaction so I assume the Savior wave wasn't well received by backers.

**DaveC**

I suspect that's more to do with the fact the there was only 450 of each sold and they sold fast and there's 5,410 KS backers there's bound to be a few disappointed particularly as if your not signed up to the newsletter you wouldn't know about them at all. The Saviors weren't anything to do with KS so an announcement there wasn't required the Dung Beetle Knight is somewhere in the middle as it was a KS option but Adam has covered the release of the resin version outside of KS but he probably wants to make sure KS backers have a chance to get it as well and not unduely upset anyone and as RiTides said how many will remember that update (I remember huge amounts of mostly useless information. but can never remember where the car keys are

)

**BobtheInquisitor**

"Butthurt"? Very professional.

His decision doesn't bother me personally, and I think it's great he asked, but his vocabulary could use a bit of tweaking.

"Which one of you pathetic losers wanted a second run of resin figures? Because I've decided to humor you." It just doesn't sound as welcoming as "This is great news, everyone!"

**Makaleth**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
"Butthurt"? Very professional.

His decision doesn't bother me personally, and I think it's great he asked, but his vocabulary could use a bit of tweaking.

"Which one of you pathetic losers wanted a second run of resin figures? Because I've decided to humor you." It just doesn't sound as welcoming as "This is great news, everyone!"

I agree, he could be a little more finessed.
But, those who have known and dealt with Adam for a while now already knew this.

**Still Standing**

My new Kingdom Death stuff has arrived. I have to say I am not a fan of the plastics (Experiment of Death). After only experiencing his resin until now I am disappointed.

**RiTides**

Are the plastic minis being produced for the game using the same method / material? Honestly I forget where that left off, although the question marks around it is what initially got me to drop... I have the same concerns about most of the "big box board games" that are being advertised to double as wargaming miniatures (such as Sedition Wars).

Zombicide / Descent / Super Dungeon Explore type plastics are absolutely fantastic for board gaming, but are not good enough for wargaming, in my opinion / experience so far.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

From the KS comments quite a few thought the experiment of death PVC was good (some shipped out from the recent re-stock hence the talk about it)

eg: Cheshiremonkey 2 days ago

My Experiment of Death just came today and if what we get is similiar to that from this kickstarter, we have nothing to worry about. I was extremely impressed with how clean the model was. Monster cannot come soon enough. I cannot wait to sit down and play.

but in response to this and a specific question about the comparison Adam said

Creator Kingdom Death 2 days ago

@Iain McGregor, its superior material & process compared to the PVC found in the experiment of death

personally I can't see whatever it is being as good as his resin (but then while I've seen rare examples of minis as good as his, I've never seen better) but I'm sure it will b decent

**Alpharius**

Update!

Sunstalker!
Update #75 · Aug 5, 2013 · 50 comments

Hello everyone! Let's get right to it!

Schedule & Plastic Manufacturing Update
Nothing new to report on plastic manufacturing yet. Still collecting samples so I can have a nice little show and tell for an update. Initially I was planning for this to be mid august, but it might slip to end of august. In september I will be pulling the trigger on production, so if we are facing any delays I will know by then.

Shipping Update
So far we have sat down in meetings with, USPS, DHL and Fedex. Things are looking much brighter there then I had anticipated. Fedex offers a service that we are currently discussing in greater detail, wherein packages would be picked up and then shipped from a single international point of origin. What customs taxes people can expect from shipping within Europe using this method still remains to be seen but it's a promising option. The suit & tie fedex reps, were not prepared for our warehouse and the hoards of tiny men that presented them. They kept talking about how different it was for them.

Game Dev Update

After much agonizing, we decided on the final dimensions of the game book. It will be 11"x8.5" landscape format. There were many design considerations that went into this, but here are the ones that really matter to us. Wide format art looks way more awesome! By going landscape we make the book a little easier to fit on a busy table with lots of gaming pieces. Finally, for future online content we really wanted consistent look and feel to be possible from anyone's home printer.

I apologize, these have not been thru the editor yet so I will not be posting readable versions of them.

Thru play testing we discovered that tracking the number of elapsed years often fell by the wayside when players started the settlement phase excited to essentially start shopping for new gear. We also found that despite the year being what triggered the end of the game no one really cared much about it.

So we went back into the design phase for this and have extended this aspect of the game into a full-fledged timeline. Now you just tick of the years as you go and trigger the appropriate story event on that year. There are things in game that can add, remove or move story events on your timeline and in the case of certain expansions, you will use a blank version of the settlement record sheet to setup unique timelines.

The final blank version will be available for download so that if people want to create fully customized campaigns with their own chronology of story events (or even new ones!!) they can.

I wanted to keep the design nice, simple, and information focused. This minimalist style also works to keep things visually consistent from any home printer.

Art!
Here is the monster that caused our little delay today! I wanted to assemble him and take some photos for the update. I am happy to present the resin Sunstalker, sculpted by Allan Carrasco! Following him is the Sacred Pool, the unique settlement location you have access to when you play a sunstalker campaign and finally after that are some shots of the resin Primal Huntress!

Kevin Lindsay about 8 hours ago

Can the Sunstalker be hunted or is it only in use as an optional end boss? Either way AMAZING!

Creator Kingdom Death about 8 hours ago

@Kevin, both!

Jorge Barreiros about 6 hours ago

Great looking content, as always.
I wonder, most of the updates understandably focus on the amazing components. But what is the state of the gameplay content (cards/rules/playtesting/expansion content etc)?
I'm not terribly enthusiastic about the FedEx solution, as anything coming into EU from outside is taxed accordingly, if I understand correctly. So, unless the "single international origin" is EU-based, which seems unlikely, we'll still get hit by taxes. Oh well. At least the game is looking amazing.

Creator Kingdom Death about 6 hours ago

It would be EU based, as the majority if international backers are in the EU. The core game is getting pretty solid, while the expansions are still currently wildly unbalanced and need quite a bit more fine tuning.

Eduardo Guimarães about 6 hours ago

Great Update, this game will be the perfect mix of boardgame and RPG. More gameplay updates are very welcome.
For the non-EU international backers, you should give the option to use USPS. FEDEX, DHL or USP will pratically double the price of the game for me. I would be willing to pay more to get the game via USPS.

Creator Kingdom Death about 6 hours ago

@Eduardo, I am really sorry but we will most likely not be offering that level of customization for individual backers. In order to get a rate that makes it fiscally possible we need to choose the best overall solution. The magnitude of what needs to be shipped ( over 6,000 very complex pick and pack orders with a VERY heavy game box ) means that we have to be very careful about whom we work with, how its insured and finally what the final bill comes to.

That being said, I won't know until we are closer to it. But we are exploring many options.

Milana Adamov about 5 hours ago

Great update
Sadly I have to point out that in my country DHL and Fedex (they have freelancer companies here working in their name) will ask not only to pay the price of taxes the same amount that I spent on funding the minis - but one part of the shipment has to be destroyed by law too. So I am literally begging you to send me the minis via US registered mail, since otherwise I will not be able to get them at all.

Creator Kingdom Death about 5 hours ago

@MIlana, If you live in a country where registered mail is the only option, please contact anna and we will make special arrangements. We have had many problems with Russia, Czech republic and a few other places on our wonderfully diverse planet.

Hunter Kelly about 5 hours ago

I'd like to second the comment about A4. Even if there aren't different versions, but the various printable things have been tested with A4, that would be great!

On the shipping issue, will there be a way to mark deliveries as gifts? I've seen other kickstarters do this. It seems to stop the recipient of the gift from getting nailed with customs/taxes/whatever.

Creator Kingdom Death about 4 hours ago

@Hunter Kelly, we will do what our export specialist advises. I cannot promise you we will make any packages as a gift. Im pretty sure the settlement record sheets will look just fine on A4 paper.

**endtransmission**

That Sunstalker is insanely big! The parcels for this KS are going to be massive if that's an indication of the creature sizes...

**Still Standing**

Now we know why shipping was so expensive!

**Alpharius**

I'd love to see a picture of a 'plastic' miniature - hopefully that will happen sometime towards the end of the month.

The resin stuff looks awesome - as usual.

Adam has already more than shown his ability to make fantastic resin models...

**cincydooley**

I never cease to be amazed at how well the unpainted pin-up models stand up as little pieces of art. I mean, they really remind me of renaissance sculpture.

At this point I think I'd actually be interested in buying a full nude male miniature by one of their sculpters, simply because I think the beauty in the anatomy of it would be so striking.

**Alpharius**

cincydooley wrote:
I never cease to be amazed at how well the unpainted pin-up models stand up as little pieces of art. I mean, they really remind me of renaissance sculpture.

At this point I think I'd actually be interested in buying a full nude male miniature by one of their sculpters, simply because I think the beauty in the anatomy of it would be so striking.

...

...

...nope, I got nothin'!

**RiTides**

Impressive (and creepy, as intended) model in resin! If Adam's attention to detail continues, as I'm sure it will, these will be some amazing plastic models, as well. It seems like it will take a herculean effort to get it delivered by the end of the year, but people are used to delays with kickstarters by now.

**cincydooley**

Alpharius wrote:
cincydooley wrote:
I never cease to be amazed at how well the unpainted pin-up models stand up as little pieces of art. I mean, they really remind me of renaissance sculpture.

At this point I think I'd actually be interested in buying a full nude male miniature by one of their sculpters, simply because I think the beauty in the anatomy of it would be so striking.

...

...

...nope, I got nothin'!

Yeah, it sounds a little questionable. I basically meant to say I'm starting to see them as really fantastic art like one would see Michelangelo's David as art.

Maybe interested isn't the right word so much as "receptive" is

**Still Standing**

Receptive to miniature naked men? I feel that we should leave this conversation alone...

**cincydooley**

Still Standing wrote:
Receptive to miniature naked men? I feel that we should leave this conversation alone...

Why? It's okay if there's tits spilling out everywhere but it's suddenly taboo if its a dude? I love women, but I'm entirely secure enough in my sexuality to appreciate art that includes the naked male form.

**Still Standing**

To be fair I don't want miniature naked women all over my house either...