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I want to use Holocaust and have a question regarding codex trumps rulebook... First does the template scatter and second do models partially under the template only be hit on a 4+?

G

the codex rules for the power take priority if I am correct

Holocaust isn't a blast weapon attack, as such there's no reason for you to follow the blast weapon rules, you play it exactly as the codex says. It just uses the blast marker with it's own rules for placement and a 4+ for partials to inflict S5 hits.

Yep. No scatter, partials are hit on a 4+.

It's the rules for the psychic power, it's not a regular blast weapon.

Thanks!

G

Which codex is 'Holocaust' from?

I seem to remember a huge thread about the eldar farseer power 'eldritch storm', where we ended up agreeing that it did scatter because it was technically a psychic shooting attack and it used a template.

NB: Not trying to troll, just wondering if there is any difference between 'place the template' in the holocaust rules and 'place the template' in the eldritch storm rules?


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Nevermind. It's a bloody Daemonhunters thing isn't it.

Si senor.

J.Black wrote:Which codex is 'Holocaust' from?

I seem to remember a huge thread about the eldar farseer power 'eldritch storm', where we ended up agreeing that it did scatter because it was technically a psychic shooting attack and it used a template.

NB: Not trying to troll, just wondering if there is any difference between 'place the template' in the holocaust rules and 'place the template' in the eldritch storm rules?


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Nevermind. It's a bloody Daemonhunters thing isn't it.

The biggest difference between them is that Eldritch storm is done using a weapon profile of a blast weapon, whereas holocaust says to place the template and things under it suffer a single S5 attack.

I think you'll find that's not the case.

Holocaust is used in the assault phase which stops it being classed as a psychic shooting attack, ergo no need to roll for any scatter.

Eldritch storm is done in the shooting phase making it a psychic shooting attack by default. So it scatters.

The blast weapon profile has nothing to do with it.

J.Black wrote:I think you'll find that's not the case.

Holocaust is used in the assault phase which stops it being classed as a psychic shooting attack, ergo no need to roll for any scatter.

Eldritch storm is done in the shooting phase making it a psychic shooting attack by default. So it scatters.

The blast weapon profile has nothing to do with it.

So my Non Blast Psychic shooting attack scatters now? Wow, learn something new every day!

Gwar! wrote:So my Non Blast Psychic shooting attack scatters now? Wow, learn something new every day!

yes, apparently we have been playing it wrong all along, all psychic shooting attacks scatter

Drunkspleen wrote:

Gwar! wrote:So my Non Blast Psychic shooting attack scatters now? Wow, learn something new every day!

yes, apparently we have been playing it wrong all along, all psychic shooting attacks scatter

Just for the record:

</sarcasm>

Blast Shooting attacks (Psychic or not) Scatter. Holocaust is not a Blast Shooting attack (Psychic or otherwise) so does not scatter.

Gwar! wrote:

Blast Shooting attacks (Psychic or not) Scatter. Holocaust is not a Blast Shooting attack (Psychic or otherwise) so does not scatter.

That's what i was getting at. My previous reply was in the context of the two powers i was talking about and the parameters appertaining thereunto.

J.Black wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Blast Shooting attacks (Psychic or not) Scatter. Holocaust is not a Blast Shooting attack (Psychic or otherwise) so does not scatter.

That's what i was getting at. My previous reply was in the context of the two powers i was talking about and the parameters appertaining thereunto.

And my Reply was aimed at your comment of "The blast weapon profile has nothing to do with it." which is wrong, as non Blast Psychic shooting attacks do not scatter, which is what you were seeming to imply.

I think you'll find that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle causes them to scatter imperceptibly.

Holocaust is a template attack that uses a small round template rather than a standard teardrop template. Pretty simple, really.

SJ

jeffersonian000 wrote:Holocaust is a template attack that uses a small round template rather than a standard teardrop template. Pretty simple, really.

SJ

But it's not because it's not a shooting attack at all, and doesn't have a weapon profile, it's a psychic ability that uses the small blast marker to resolve it's targets and then infict a certain effect on those people.

Holocaust follows every rule for template weapons with the exception of which phase it's used in, which template is used, and which models can be legally under the template. No where else does it reference any other rules other than it being a psychic power.

SJ

What are holocaust rules? makes me think of genocide..

jeffersonian000 wrote:Holocaust follows every rule for template weapons with the exception of which phase it's used in, which template is used, and which models can be legally under the template. No where else does it reference any other rules other than it being a psychic power.

SJ

Except that it's not a shooting attack at all, and doesn't have a weapon profile, it's a psychic ability that uses the small blast marker to resolve it's targets and then inflict a certain effect on those people.


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Ritz wrote:What are holocaust rules? makes me think of genocide..

It is a Psycic power available to Daemonhunters. It is one of the very few Non-PC things to survive from 2nd edition 40k.

I regard it as a shooting attack. The rules for how it works are explicit and since codex trumps rulebook it should not scatter and does wound models partially covered on a 4+. This is yet another example of why codex trumps rulebook is silly but it saves the developers from having to do a lot of work.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:I regard it as a shooting attack. The rules for how it works are explicit and since codex trumps rulebook it should not scatter and does wound models partially covered on a 4+. This is yet another example of why codex trumps rulebook is silly but it saves the developers from having to do a lot of work.

ITS NOT A PSYCHIC SHOOTING ATTACK!!!!!!!!!

Let's see... you roll to wound after covering models with a template... it's definitely a psychic power... sure sounds like a shooting attack.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Let's see... you roll to wound after covering models with a template... it's definitely a psychic power... sure sounds like a shooting attack.

Yeah, One small problem:

It is done in the Assault Phase. Explain that one.

Remember when vypers could take crystal targeting matrix... oh wait I forgot you are not supposed to have any imagination when playing this game... it is sci fi after all.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Remember when vypers could take crystal targeting matrix... oh wait I forgot you are not supposed to have any imagination when playing this game... it is sci fi after all.

Yeah, boo hoo. Look, it isn't a shooting attack.

Why, because simply you say it does not?

Afrikan Blonde wrote:Why, because simply you say it does not?

No, because it's rules do not say it is a shooting attack, it happens in the assault phase and does not use the shooting rules, ergo it is not a shooting attack.

There are many situations where an action occurs in the non action stage. To say shooting is not shooting because it occurs in the assault phase makes no sense at all. Is it then a psychic assault by your definition? Can you cite any other examples?

Afrikan Blonde wrote:There are many situations where an action occurs in the non action stage. To say shooting is not shooting because it occurs in the assault phase makes no sense at all. Is it then a psychic assault by your definition? Can you cite any other examples?

No, it is a Psychic ability. It is not a Psychic Shooting attack because:
a) It doesn't say it IS a Shooting attack, and as such it isn't.
b) It happens in the Assault phase.
c) It has it's own special rules to determine what happens, it does not reference the shooting rules at all.