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2009/08/03 20:13:53
Subject: why? Why can I not seem to write an intelligent subject line? WHY! OMGWTFBBQ!!1!?
I can't see how in Gw right mind how thier plan get rid of the metals minis and make plastic and charge same price will work. Wouldnt being all plastic give them the rare chance make their minis cheaper rate since materials would be cheaper and thus sell em cheaper? Oh wait this gw were talking about. I think gw might go bankrupt if such move was made. Privateer press any one?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/04 04:18:43
How do you know its cheaper to make plastic minis?
That is an assumption in circles that isnt necessarily true. It stems from the common idea that plastic is a "cheaper" material.
Sure a plastic trash can from wal mart should be cheaper than a metal one, but that is a different type of product with different manufacturing process. I can make metal minis in a garage, its that simple and cheap, but I need to front hundreds of thousands to start making plastic minis. I'd have to hire people, etc etc.
And as for me, I can say I would pay more for plastic sisters of battle and other such 2 pose 1 peice models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/03 20:19:41
GMMStudios wrote:How do you know its cheaper to make plastic minis?
That is an assumption in circles that isnt necessarily true. It stems from the common idea that plastic is a "cheaper" material.
Sure a plastic trash can from wal mart should be cheaper than a metal one, but that is a different type of product with different manufacturing process. I can make metal minis in a garage, its that simple and cheap, but I need to front hundreds of thousands to start making plastic minis. I'd have to hire people, etc etc.
And as for me, I can say I would pay more for plastic sisters of battle and other such 2 pose 1 peice models.
Im concerned cause i dont want be spending $100 usd on a russ kit i mean the way gw going it could be possibility.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/03 20:23:38
Maybe stores should have sales. Like buy battleforce get the codex for free or buy two heavy surports get a troop choice free?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Im just concerned for fellow wargamers who on a tight budget. By tight budget i get 20 a week. I mean how can if prices are expensive or go up next year how can people on budget be able to surport the hobby when they cant afford it any more?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/03 20:33:38
Sales don't really work when you're not in competition.
For example.
2 clothes stores can have sales, as the sales are loss leaders to clear seasonal stock (something which GW don't) plus it gets bodies through doors. And there is a good chance your customers will think 'cor blimey guv'nor. I 'as saved me a pretty penny and no mistake, so I can afford to buy this nice top wot isn't in the sale, innit'.
When you are a sole source of your bits and pieces, unless clearing out stock (again, something GW don't really need to worry about all that much) then the sale achieves a lot less.
For instance, GW would advetise the sale and the bargains to be had before the big sale. If I'm looking at adding to my army, or starting a new one, I will hold off on my purchases until the date, saving me money, and not gaining GW any more money than I would have spent. Thus the sale makes no financial sense.
And if they don't advertise the sale, at the prices we pay, there would be a lot of ill feeling toward GW from the poor souls who bought their gubbinz up to a month before the sale, as they have their goods and missed out on the savings.
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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Sales don't really work when you're not in competition.
For example.
2 clothes stores can have sales, as the sales are loss leaders to clear seasonal stock (something which GW don't) plus it gets bodies through doors. And there is a good chance your customers will think 'cor blimey guv'nor. I 'as saved me a pretty penny and no mistake, so I can afford to buy this nice top wot isn't in the sale, innit'.
When you are a sole source of your bits and pieces, unless clearing out stock (again, something GW don't really need to worry about all that much) then the sale achieves a lot less.
For instance, GW would advetise the sale and the bargains to be had before the big sale. If I'm looking at adding to my army, or starting a new one, I will hold off on my purchases until the date, saving me money, and not gaining GW any more money than I would have spent. Thus the sale makes no financial sense.
And if they don't advertise the sale, at the prices we pay, there would be a lot of ill feeling toward GW from the poor souls who bought their gubbinz up to a month before the sale, as they have their goods and missed out on the savings.
I can see wouldnt make sense for a Gw store but i seen a few lgs do such things push product out to get some cash flowing in.
An FLG does face competiton, not just from GW (Hobby Centres and Websites) but from other Indy sources in the area and the web, so holding a sale can make financial sense for them. Like the clothes stores I mentioned in the above example, it's about currying good favour with his clientele, and attracting new clients to flog stuff to at full price.
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GMMStudios wrote:How do you know its cheaper to make plastic minis?...
Yes, plastic is cheaper...
Not necessarily just to make, why plastic is cheaper:
Lower materials cost (Plastic pellets are cheaper than white metal ingots by volume many times over)
Lower shipping costs
Lower labor costs (injection molding is many times faster, safer and more reliable than smelted spin casting)
(sorting parts and de molding is also much faster with injection molding)
Why it might not be cheaper for completed kits though:
Barrier costs for injection molding:
Injection molding machines are industrial grade machines and have a much greater price tag than spin casters and smelts, probably rented/contracted
Injection molds are cut out of aluminum blocks, very expensive to do
Production time for a green, and a subsequent smelted spincast is both faster and cheaper than setting up the injection mold, with 3 ups and cad drawings
It is true to say that materials costs for plastic are less, but wether or not the completed kits on the shelf are cheaper is a function of initial set up costs, and volume of sales over time.
Generally I agree though, metal is a more valuable material and metal models have different properties, considered by at least some to be more desirable. On the surface at least, from a consumer view, plastic kits per piece should be cheaper...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/03 21:00:42
I am not an authority, but to give the reader a bit of information.
I think the price tag for a plastic injection molding set up including all the machinery necessary to design and cut the aluminum blocks, the plastic hoppers for the pellets, the pellet injector and the assembly line may be in the millions!
Also plastic injection molding is done at up to 43,200 PSI an average car tire is 35-50 psi. Incredible forces are involved!
GMMStudios wrote:How do you know its cheaper to make plastic minis?
That is an assumption in circles that isnt necessarily true. It stems from the common idea that plastic is a "cheaper" material.
Sure a plastic trash can from wal mart should be cheaper than a metal one, but that is a different type of product with different manufacturing process. I can make metal minis in a garage, its that simple and cheap, but I need to front hundreds of thousands to start making plastic minis. I'd have to hire people, etc etc.
And as for me, I can say I would pay more for plastic sisters of battle and other such 2 pose 1 peice models.
Im concerned cause i dont want be spending $100 usd on a russ kit i mean the way gw going it could be possibility.
You do know that the new Russ kit came out like 4 days ago? Much better kit, about the price of the old demolisher, get two of them for 100.00? I think that you're pretty safe in the assumption that the new LR kit won't be doubling in price overnight.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
I'm assuming you're young (like me) and dont have to pay bills and on NZ $20 (US $10) a MOUNTH I get my models and supplies just fine
I'm just saying there not THAT bad
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/04 09:56:28
Kragura wrote:I'm assuming you're young (like me) and dont have to pay bills and on NZ $20 (US $10) a MOUNTH I get my models and supplies just fine
Umm.... how?
10$ isn't even enough to buy a blister, let alone boxes of troops, tanks, HQ, elites, paints, glues, brushes...
I would be interested in how much stuff you actually have. The average 1500 point army costs around 500-700$, and at 10$ a month... well you do the math.
Don't get me wrong, if you have lots of expendable income, getting an army every year is not crazy or anything, but most who do this spend MUCH more than 500-700$ on their armies, mainly due to conversions, paints, brushes, and even magnets. The more you are into the hobby the worse GW looks, especially because they do so very much to stifle the real important aspects of the hobby, such as terrain-building, and second hand miniatures. Your simply not going to want to get involved in these very fun aspects to the hobby, just because GW makes it so "easy" to avoid them entirely.
At some point GW will be catering to nothing but kids anyways, but that could be the main reason I have such an issue with their overall business practices. The more hands-on the better I say, but the fact remains that most of the work involves the consumer, not the company when it comes to making your own armies come to life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/04 10:15:46
2009/08/04 10:18:10
Subject: Re:why? Why can I not seem to write an intelligent subject line? WHY! OMGWTFBBQ!!1!?
If done right you could make a profit while lowering prices. Price rise =/= doing it right. Now my economics aren't that great (Played DS through entire class but still got 78% overall wtf) and I am tired at the moment. So don't expect much of a mind blowing post (lots of subnetting >_> ). So let's kick start the economy guy's speech by introducing the little friend know as the supply and demand chart: basic version. It's cool because you get 5 marks just for having this in your essay at the right place
As you can see from the chart (I'm not going into other crap like marco economics, aggrigate (sp?) demand and supply (not even sure if they apply atm )) if the price is pushed up it will shift the demand curve to the right. What that means is that they will have a lot of stock that nobody wants. The reverse applys and is why some stuff can be very expensive. So if you don't pay attention and stop thinking for a second you might get the idea that if you decrease manufactoring costs or just increase the price you will have more crap and more people will want to buy it. It doesn't work that way and will eventually lead to a loss of profit in the long run.
Instead if they focused on marketing and made some price adjustments they could increase sales and look good to the consumer leading to an even greater profit than a price increase.
Clearly GW have to turn a profit, and clearly they are very good at milking the proverbial cash cow and have been doing so for years. It helps that they have an almost total monopoly on the market.
I often have felt uneasy, however, that they use the excuse of producing 'high quality metal miniatures' as an excuse to ramp the price up. It seems that plastic is going down that road too but until another company or consumers offer the impetus to force GW to abandon their pricing policy then it will continue.
mikhaila wrote:
You do know that the new Russ kit came out like 4 days ago? Much better kit, about the price of the old demolisher, get two of them for 100.00? I think that you're pretty safe in the assumption that the new LR kit won't be doubling in price overnight.
No but lets look at the price for the same kit in 5-7 years and see how far up it's gone, just like all the older kits.
