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Hey guys.

I wanted to know about your opinion on the Snazzwagon with its kustom job for an inherently Chaff clearer unit?

In general when i look at the kustom job, it looks like utter garbage, but i thought about whether it wouldnt be somewhat decent at clearing T3 and T4 infantry off the bord, along side its 2D6 flame grenade.

If we were to take, lets say Pox walkers with T3 (or buffed to T4) and theres 20 of those, thats 140 points isnt it? if one Poxwalker is 7 points. And given the aura of that.. dude in the death guard army that negates that i charged and thus cant hit first, i feel like i will disregard boyz this time (i guess, unless shoota boyz are efficient?).

For your snazzwagon you pay 90 + 1 CP to get 15 S4 -1AP 1dmg shots + 2D6 grenades. That in and out of itself seem like a good deal. So what makes it bad at that? because we have better options or because it hits on 5s?


Personally i just bought a kustom boosta blasta for the utility, flamethrowers for chaff clearing, and the rivet gun for tougher enemies, but i wonder if the snazzwagon wouldnt have been a better choice for full on chaff clearing.

Both are 90 points so not really a lot.

Ive wished for both the dragsta and scrapjet for christmas so i purposefully didnt buy those.

With kustom job, the snazzwagon kills an average of 6 pox walkers - from 6" away.

Next turn the pox walkers charge the buggy and you can't throw your grenades any more because they are blast, which means you are stuck trying to get out of the blob by killing 4 per turn. It the DG player throws any buffs their way, they might even destroy the buggy in combat.

The KBB kills ~7 pox walkers at 6", and charge them for mortal wounds or and continues to kill 6 per turn even in combat. If you want to stay safe, you use a CP for burnin' highway to kill ~7 from 10" and then fire overwatch at them to get them down to 5-6 before they even touch you. Pox walkers with less than 10 models don't hit gak.
The rivet gun is an all-rounder weapon, so if you need pox-walkers gone, shoot it at them as well.

So, the snazzwagon is strictly inferior at killing chaff than the generalist KBB, which is the main reason why it's rated to badly. Personally, I just proxy my snazzwagon as KBB, because the armament looks close enough

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

I wanted to know about your opinion on the Snazzwagon with its kustom job for an inherently Chaff clearer unit?

In general when i look at the kustom job, it looks like utter garbage, but i thought about whether it wouldnt be somewhat decent at clearing T3 and T4 infantry off the bord, along side its 2D6 flame grenade.

If we were to take, lets say Pox walkers with T3 (or buffed to T4) and theres 20 of those, thats 140 points isnt it? if one Poxwalker is 7 points. And given the aura of that.. dude in the death guard army that negates that i charged and thus cant hit first, i feel like i will disregard boyz this time (i guess, unless shoota boyz are efficient?).

For your snazzwagon you pay 90 + 1 CP to get 15 S4 -1AP 1dmg shots + 2D6 grenades. That in and out of itself seem like a good deal. So what makes it bad at that? because we have better options or because it hits on 5s?


Personally i just bought a kustom boosta blasta for the utility, flamethrowers for chaff clearing, and the rivet gun for tougher enemies, but i wonder if the snazzwagon wouldnt have been a better choice for full on chaff clearing.

Both are 90 points so not really a lot.

Ive wished for both the dragsta and scrapjet for christmas so i purposefully didnt buy those.

The kustom job for the Snazzwagon is more of a side grade than an upgrade. You go from 9 shots 24" range str 5 ap2 to 15 shots 30" range str 4 ap 1. That kind of dramatically shifts what the Snazzwagon wants to do. The former profile is more suited to wounding/killing power armour, the later for killing guardsmen equivalents. Then you get into the whole problem with the BDSW, it doesnt know what it wants to be. It has a -1 to hit against shooting but blows up on a 4+. It has guns that are 24/30-36" but then grenades that 6" and then no melee profile like the SJD, RTSB and MTSJ. And 90pts I think is pretty overcosted, it should be 70/75pts (especially if a ATV is 85pts....).

Me personally if I were to take Snazzwagons, id save the CP on the Kustomjob and run them stock. AP1 starts to get effected by things that ignore AP1, where as ignoring AP2 is pretty rare with only Sisters (Imaginifier and Subfaction trait) and Tyranids (on a brick of Warriors) getting it. Tbh id ignore the burna bottles and grot blasta on the model as they probably wont amount to much anyway, kind of like the KBB with its stikkbomb and grot blasta and then the RTSB's stikksquig and shotgun.

But I would always take the KBB over a BDSW if I had the choice too. Sure if you know your going against a lot of T3 units take the kustom job, but in the wider meta the BDSW doesnt really fit in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 addnid wrote:
Evil sunz boyz, if you take a waagh banner nob, are also completely valid as a troop choice. 30*3 (one in deep strike on certain maps) with double saw nob + waaagh banner makes for a decent army base. Less snipers are being taken these days, and many boyz will surround the waagh banner to prevent it form being assaulted.
Unlike goff boyz, evil sunz boyz can make a lucky t1 charge or force the opponent to stay in hos zone (a lot better than goff boyz).
I still think goff boyz are better overall (DS probably too), but evil sunz is still valid for "green tidish" ork armies IMHO.

I still love my Evil Sunz Boyz. They might not be as killy as Goff Skarboyz with Ghaz or as durable as Deathskulls (still doesnt save much) but they have mobility. Moving 6+D6+1" vs your standard 5+D6" can mean the difference of getting that objective/having more bodies on the point, achieving a secondary or making a crucial charge especially with that +1. And at the end of the day a Goff Boss Nob in a Skarboyz squad is pretty much the same as a Evil Sunz Boss Nob, and the mobs are the same durability. One hits harder the other gets places quicker and in 9e movement is pretty key, one of the more important phases of the game.

So yeah I agree with you Addnid. Its just Ghaz does more for Goffs than other Clans.

Yeah, KBB is much better than Snazzwagon. Exactly because what Jidmah said. Plus 36” rivet kannon is simply better then mek speshul. More powerfull and longer range than standard 24” bolter range

A friend recently purchased a second unit of Mega Nobz for me as a gift.

Do you think that two Bonebreakas with Mega Nobz would be a good hard core to take and hold central objectives?

One Bonebreaka will be a Forktress, the other will have a KFF Mega Mek in it. I intend to run everything as Deathskulls, as that seems the best Kultur for mechanized Ork lists by far.

The Bonebreaka is nice if you have a Fall back and Charge plan. I do it with Blood Axes for casual games, but more serious maybe a Evil Sunz detachment with the WL trait.

That said I think that the big vehicles aren´t that useful for us as saturating the field with cheap T4 bodies is better ObSec and board control. 1 is ok to deliver some melee specialists, but more feels iffy to me. (Infernal Questing Chaos Knight in an exception)

You run bonebreakas if you have lots of other vehicles around. With a horde, you are better off footslogging or tellyporting MANz.

 Bonde wrote:
A friend recently purchased a second unit of Mega Nobz for me as a gift.

Do you think that two Bonebreakas with Mega Nobz would be a good hard core to take and hold central objectives?

One Bonebreaka will be a Forktress, the other will have a KFF Mega Mek in it. I intend to run everything as Deathskulls, as that seems the best Kultur for mechanized Ork lists by far.

Depending how competitive your games are, this might work fine. Battlewagon w/ Ard case or the Bonebreaker are awesome bodies for their points.

You might find, though, they don't really last long enough to hold the objective in certain matchups (meltas are awful), especially if these are your only vehicles.

Yeah, battlewagons only work IMO if you use them alongside buggies to saturate the field enough with vehicles to force your opponent to deal with multiple threats.

I intend to run them alongside 2x Boyz in trukks, 2x Scrapjets, Gunwagon w. boomer and a Warboss on warbike.

I love the look of the snazzwagon it is an awesome model, however, it needs a fix in that it’s gun needs to be more powerful, then it would see play as you could then take advantage of the -1 to hit, or the bumper grot strategem. As it currently stands the snazzwagon is just not threatening enough to do what it could be great at which is absorbing fire power for other buggies/vehicles. As it currently is players just ignore it if it is benefiting from the -1 or they destroy it if they are close to it

 Bonde wrote:
I intend to run them alongside 2x Boyz in trukks, 2x Scrapjets, Gunwagon w. boomer and a Warboss on warbike.

Seems fine then. A highly mechanized army loves Bonebreakers / wagons.

 Bonde wrote:
I intend to run them alongside 2x Boyz in trukks, 2x Scrapjets, Gunwagon w. boomer and a Warboss on warbike.

Yup, that sounds about right. You got a solid base right there.

@russellmoo

Agreed, it is a shame since the model itself looks so cool, but its trying to fill an anti-infantry niche that is covered quite amply by a lot of other options in the Ork codex. Frankly, its main gun should be an anti-elite infantry weapon since we don't really have much of that in our army outside of rokkits and incidental anti-tank weaponry repurposed for that role, I guess Flash Gitz count too but they need a points drop first before they get used again. Having the Mek Speshul at 12 shots at S5 AP-2 D2 would make it a lot more interesting, with the caveat of it getting +1 to hit if it's in half-range to incentivize getting close and using it's burna bottles. I guess the kustom job would make it 12 shots at S6 AP-3 D2?

 Grimskul wrote:

 Bonde wrote:
I intend to run them alongside 2x Boyz in trukks, 2x Scrapjets, Gunwagon w. boomer and a Warboss on warbike.

Yup, that sounds about right. You got a solid base right there.

@russellmoo

Agreed, it is a shame since the model itself looks so cool, but its trying to fill an anti-infantry niche that is covered quite amply by a lot of other options in the Ork codex. Frankly, its main gun should be an anti-elite infantry weapon since we don't really have much of that in our army outside of rokkits and incidental anti-tank weaponry repurposed for that role, I guess Flash Gitz count too but they need a points drop first before they get used again. Having the Mek Speshul at 12 shots at S5 AP-2 D2 would make it a lot more interesting, with the caveat of it getting +1 to hit if it's in half-range to incentivize getting close and using it's burna bottles. I guess the kustom job would make it 12 shots at S6 AP-3 D2?

The problem with that is then it makes the KBB and RTSB kinda obslete (even though the RTSB already is). 12 shots Str 5 AP2 D2 is better that 6 shots Str 7 AP 2 D2 against pretty much all targets which being more durable too with the -1 to hit. I also have a sneaky suspicious Kustom Jobs will go when the Codex drops. It looks like they are trying to move away from CP unit upgrades, making them either legitimate units like Veteran Intercessors or cost points as seen with Chapter Command. Knowing our luck they will just be removed but the better thing would be to have KJs as just the new profiles of the vehicles.

If the BDSW gets a nice boost like you suggested then the KBB will need something to cerment its role too. Either the rivet kannon being better vs vehicles or the burnas becoming more deadly and being able to be used in melee as a CC profile. Or they give the BDSW a supression rule where the unit it shots at is -1 to hit.

If they remove Kustom Jobs I really hope our stratagems get revamped in some regard. So many of our strategems are just useless or highly situational. Kustom jobs is what keep certain units relevant. I'm afraid of the relevancy and flexibility of certain units without them.

Kustom jobs are also a fairly unique and praised mechanic. I somehow doubt they will get removed unless they roll in all the upgrades into the base datasheets. And that would probably be insanely powerful.

Theres no way they remove kustom jobs, its too popular a mechanic and super flavorful for orks.

Its more likely they add more kustom jobs than give us better relics. Orks arent known for specially crafted personal weapons, just bigger versions of the usual weapon (i.e. Killaklaw or extra shots shootas), not really all that special ones with unique properties.
Vehicles though are supposed to be so heavily kitbashed and hobbled together that no two vehicles are the same. So yeah, i could see them adding tons of kustom jobs and copy/pasting relics.

The only way they could get rid of kustomjobs and not get a huge backlash from the ork community is to basically incorporate them into the units by default.
Could take Squighydes? +1m
Could take Pistons? +1m
Could take Sparkly Bits? +1BS at half range (or some other restriction so its not a flat BS4 buff to all our walkers)
etcetc.

And theres no way in hell GW does that. Not without making them cost ~40% more to "compensate" because orks never get a buff without a price hyke in the process.

The main issue is they are trying to get rid of CP upgrades for units.

Which I 100% agree with as a general concept and I think we can all agree there was some awful game breaking CP upgrades in other armies...

If they think it'll be too powerful to have 3 units of Mega Trakks with Korkscrew, just limit the upgrades to once per detachment or once per army.

They are? Wheres that proof?
Necrons/Marines far as im aware only had character upgrades for CP, and at least the Necron one still does (unsure about marines since i could give 2 gaks about them)

Granted, the Necron one is only a Phaeron upgrade for a non-named Noble (allowing My Will be Done to be used twice and nothing else new) but its still an upgrade.
Plus, relics are still CP-based and i dont see how they arent considered upgrades.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They are? Wheres that proof?
Necrons/Marines far as im aware only had character upgrades for CP, and at least the Necron one still does (unsure about marines since i could give 2 gaks about them)

Granted, the Necron one is only a Phaeron upgrade for a non-named Noble (allowing My Will be Done to be used twice and nothing else new) but its still an upgrade.
Plus, relics are still CP-based and i dont see how they arent considered upgrades.

What they did for chapter command. It's also a comment I've heard from playtesters.

Honestly, it's awful burning your CP just to make your units viable. I want to use CP to do cool strats.

I'd much rather pay 10 points a buggy for korkscrew.

Agreed, i hate CP unit upgrades and i wish they'd go away and also wish Relics would go back to points as well.

I just dont believe GW is actually doing that. They had a chance...twice actually...to revamp the Cp system and they completely ignored both. The change in 9th is more of a consistency thing than a revamp.

I'm actually okay with relics being CP. You get 1 free, and buy an additional for 1 CP. Fine.

The issue is when you can essentially spam amazing relics for 1 CP. But this is not an Ork problem.

They could do something stupid like one kustom job per mek. Suddenly, mini-meks everywhere.

What I like about the kustom job mechanic is that it actually incentives bringing lots of different models, making ork armies look much more diverse. Nine SJD or scrapjets just aren't that cool.

Definitely Jidmah, though to be fair, part of that has to do with the fact that a lot of the kustom jobs are balanced around only being able to use it on a unit of 3, I could see them tweaking it so that you don't just spam them the way you mention, especially if they make the weaker buggies like the Squigbuggy and the Snazzwagon more interesting/powerful.

I'm just hoping they either make 'ard boyz a points option or separate troops datasheet rather than overpriced 2CP strat that arguably does nothing.

 Jidmah wrote:
They could do something stupid like one kustom job per mek. Suddenly, mini-meks everywhere.

What I like about the kustom job mechanic is that it actually incentives bringing lots of different models, making ork armies look much more diverse. Nine SJD or scrapjets just aren't that cool.

I do like this as well. It's just it shouldn't cost CP. Also, please give Orks wayyyy more cool stratagems. The perception Orks had good strats was because of the spamming of UGT, More Dakka, and Shoot twice (via Dread Waaagh and Bad moons) -- Honestly, the fact I can go down to 5 CP or so in my mech lists and not give a crap is not a good sign.

Give us a revamp of Ork strats, make some stuff cheaper (More Dakka should be 1 CP, not 2).

What you'd probably see, though, with your suggestion: maybe a Big Mek gives 2, Regular Mek 1, and Da Kleverest Boss 3 KJ upgrades.

I could see that mechanic being fine, if that's the route they go, as I think ~3 or 4 KJ is mostly what you do anyway.

But I'd prefer it being a datasheet option, once per army or detachment.

You know what grinds my gears?!

That Buzzgob doesnt buff Stompas, kustom stompas or Kill tanks, despite the fact he has a package deal on Forge World Called: Buzzgobs Kill Mob with these exact units in it!. I mean what is that all about!


On a different more serious yet odd note, have anyone tried, either through theorycrafting or in reality to replace all the 90 Slugga/Choppa boyz in a Goff group, with 90 Shoota Boyz and still giving them Skar Boyz upgrade? The good would be you actually get to hit a little bit and potentially softening the enemy up before charging in, although you will most likely hit on 6s due to your charge, and you only lose 1 attack per model. The downside is, that 1 attack could add up which is probably why people go slugga/choppa variant as Goff in the first place.

I was just playing around with the idea if it would be that bad if you lost 1 attack per model, but gained more versatility in the form of shootas.

Also if you bring a Killkannon on a battlewagon you reduce your infantry capacity from 20 to 12, but the same text is not written on the bonebreaker datasheet which by standard can only carry 12 people. Does that mean a killkannon on a bonebreaker doesnt reduce your carry capacity at all?

Why not take a 20/10 split?

Put the Choppas out front, Shootas in back.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why not take a 20/10 split?

Put the Choppas out front, Shootas in back.

I thought about that too

Beardedragon wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why not take a 20/10 split?

Put the Choppas out front, Shootas in back.

I thought about that too

I think the main reason why people go for slugga+choppa combo more, especially for Skarboyz, is because you want to make the most of the S5 upgrade you pay for the unit. Giving up that extra attack takes away the investment you paid to make them more deadly in melee, and usually the few extra shots you get from shootas don't do enough in comparison. Shootas are also contradict the purpose of Skarboyz getting stuck in, because if you get lucky enough to kill models with your shoota fire, it usually makes your charge longer and harder to make, which only makes their primary purpose harder to achieve.

I think there are two significant issues that are covering for each other when it comes to Orks and CP.

1) We don't have many good active stratagems. IMO we have 6 good all-around strategems. Get Stuck In, Orks is Never Beaten, More Dakka, Tellyporta, UGT. For good situational stratagems we have Ramming Speed, Hit Em Harder, and Skarboyz. I'd put the rest in the bad category because they either don't do enough or it is too specific to be generally useful.

.2) We have really good passive strategems. Kustom jobs, Warphead, and the Biggest Boss are auto-includes in every list almost. This combined with the most effective list being massed boyz makes for less interaction and choice than many other factions have. I have limited experience as I just started playing but I wanted to see what other people thought.