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What do people think of Cryptothralls for tying up weak units away from objectives?

Note: I'm trying to figure out if the following is reliable. Not saying it's reliable. Anyway:

Cryptothralls for tying up weak units in melee away from objectives, compared to scarabs. The thralls have T5 vs. the scarabs' T3, so a weak unit would likely need 5s to wound, compared to 3 or 4+. They have less wounds than scarabs, but being harder to wound in the first place combined with a 3+ save makes them significantly harder to kill (against weak units anyway). It's also possible to RP one of them, but you can't count on that. They're slower, too.

I had 2 Thralls in melee with a squad of 20 Pink Horrors, and it took the Horrors 3 entire turns to shift them. Definitely worthwhile there.

Again, just trying to guage whether this is common enough to be worthwhile. 3 Scarabs would be the same Power Level, but easier to remove, I think.

What say you?

Hecate wrote:
What do people think of Cryptothralls for tying up weak units away from objectives?

Note: I'm trying to figure out if the following is reliable. Not saying it's reliable. Anyway:

Cryptothralls for tying up weak units in melee away from objectives, compared to scarabs. The thralls have T5 vs. the scarabs' T3, so a weak unit would likely need 5s to wound, compared to 3 or 4+. They have less wounds than scarabs, but being harder to wound in the first place combined with a 3+ save makes them significantly harder to kill (against weak units anyway). It's also possible to RP one of them, but you can't count on that. They're slower, too.

I had 2 Thralls in melee with a squad of 20 Pink Horrors, and it took the Horrors 3 entire turns to shift them. Definitely worthwhile there.

Again, just trying to guage whether this is common enough to be worthwhile. 3 Scarabs would be the same Power Level, but easier to remove, I think.

What say you?

On paper it seems fine, but realistically how often are you successfully making it across the board or to a location where they're doing something without dying on the way or being intercepted by a unit that walks right over them? They're just not mobile and can't have enough models to survive open field movement imo.

I usually hide my Cryptothralls behind a ruin for a counter-charge or put them into strategic reinforcements for actions. Between the changes to actions in GT missions, points change to Flayed Ones and Skorpekhs and the nerf to Cryptothralls' bodyguard rule I feel pretty pessimistic about Cryptothralls.

It takes 60 WS 4+ S3 AP- attacks to kill 3 Scarabs, their durability is not an issue and their mobility is better so for tying units up Cryptothralls are not great. Having 3 models is a lot better than 2 if you want to charge multiple enemy units or consolidate into another unit than the one you charged.

Flayed Ones usually better the Crypto

My problem with Scarabs is their 6+ save. AP anything-non-zero wipes them out really easily. I might try taking some special rules for an invuln. There was a Dynasty that gives an invuln. if memory serves. Whereas the Thralls have a good save already. Not great, but good.

I've been playing Nephrekh in recent games (an unusual choice, I know) but the 6++ has saved my scarabs plenty of times.

FYI, the 6++ isn't the reason for playing the Dynasty, just a perk.

Personally though I like Scarabs. I try to hide them from firepower at all which isn't usually too difficult as they're tiny and then charge them into scary combat units to tie them up.

The 1cp strat to blow one up is also nice. You can commit absolute sh*thousery with that strat if you only put one scarab in engagement range and then blow it up so that your opponent can't attack back...

Beyond that, scarabs are also great for blocking nasty Psyker armies. I run them in units of 5 and 20 wounds is a lot to chew through with D3 smites and such.

Overall, scarabs are the more versatile option and I think that's what makes them the winner here.

I tried the exploding-scarab strat once, and rolled a 1 lol.

Don't get me wrong. I love scarabs! Just thought the thralls could fill a niche.

I definitely need more games before I can really add anything of value here, I think.

I don't think the Thralls are tougher for the points. You bring up the T5 they have, but that doesn't help if they're blown up just as quickly.

So what's the consensus on our flyers? Are they only good for being transports?

I'm torn between the Doomscythe and the Nightscythe. I'm thinking that extra anti-tank would be nice, but the transport might be more tactical. The heavy death ray, though...

As I said, I'm torn.

Hecate wrote:
So what's the consensus on our flyers? Are they only good for being transports?

I'm torn between the Doomscythe and the Nightscythe. I'm thinking that extra anti-tank would be nice, but the transport might be more tactical. The heavy death ray, though...

As I said, I'm torn.

Magnetize your deathray & the transport lens (whatever it's called). Play a few games with each & find out what works best for you.
Me? I've gotten more use out of mine as Doomscythes.

Ahh, okay. Thanks.

Hecate wrote:
So what's the consensus on our flyers? Are they only good for being transports?

I'm torn between the Doomscythe and the Nightscythe. I'm thinking that extra anti-tank would be nice, but the transport might be more tactical. The heavy death ray, though...

As I said, I'm torn.

When the Monolith gets flying, it will be the better transport

i'm too paranoid to use it as a transport. Its not that tough to take down, its only slightly more durable than a dakkajet. I get that i can run 6 skorpekhs + 10 warriors and just eat warrior deaths but thats also kinda pricy lol

If i use it as a normal transport its kinda sitting in the wide open for a turn.
If i try to use the stratagem with it, it kinda hinges on either A) my opponent lacks long-range big guns or B) my opponent has 0 idea what having a nightscythe + stuff in reserves means, which isnt a valid tactic thats just preying on newbies.
Or, C) we are playing on a map with large enough solid walls for a plane to hide...which i virtually NEVER see happen lol (they can still hide behind things if they cant be seen at all)

Or you have two for redundancy, and take advantage of the fact that they don't have traditional transport capacity so you don't need to declare what's in which transport, and you're unlikely to lose both at once, plus if you lose neither you now can choose which flank to drop your units on.

However, that's a lot of points to waste on transports and on meh flyers.

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
Or you have two for redundancy, and take advantage of the fact that they don't have traditional transport capacity so you don't need to declare what's in which transport, and you're unlikely to lose both at once, plus if you lose neither you now can choose which flank to drop your units on.

However, that's a lot of points to waste on transports and on meh flyers.

TRANSPORT
This model has a transport capacity of 20 <DYNASTY> CORE INFANTRY, <DYNASTY> INFANTRY CHARACTER or DYNASTIC AGENT INFANTRY models.

It is a normal transport in addition to the ability to use the Primastic Dimensional Breach Stratagem.

So, what are we expecting of today's update?

My wish list
- lych -2
- CCB - 10
- ctans -20
- flayed +1
- warriors -1
- ophydian -5

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
So, what are we expecting of today's update?

My wish list
- lych -2
- CCB - 10
- ctans -20
- flayed +1
- warriors -1
- ophydian -5

I predict Doomstalkers and Ophydians will go down, Silent King and Skorpekh Lords will go up, I don't think they'll touch anything else.

It'd be nice if our Flyers, ABs and HQs went down and the cost of staves of light, voidblades and warscythes went up.

I'd hope warriors go down a point, especially with the new BS that is armor of contempt warriors just dont do squat and they werent that amazing to begin with (just not necessarily bad)

Dreaming allowed?

DDA -20
Doomstalker -10
Immortals -3
Warriors -2
Nightbringer -20..30
Crypteks -15 (all)
Szeras -30
Praetorians -3..5
Lychguard -3
Flayed Ones +3
T-Vault -30

charles_the_dead_lizzard wrote:
Dreaming allowed?

DDA -20
Doomstalker -10
Immortals -3
Warriors -2
Nightbringer -20..30
Crypteks -15 (all)
Szeras -30
Praetorians -3..5
Lychguard -3
Flayed Ones +3
T-Vault -30

you were not kidding when you prefaced by asking if dreaming was allowed, lmao.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/mYZ4b5gZUiktj4GI.pdf

Points are up and holy crap a LOT of necron changes, too many for me to actually mark down while still pretending to work lol

Virtually all of our HQs got cheaper, i think the Skorpekh Lord is the only one that isnt affected.
Ctans got massively cheaper (50pts for Dec/Void, 40pts for Night/TC)

Freaking Tomb Blades (the thing i have been forcing myself to paint because theyre in the way of my painting catalog) dropped 10 flipping points.

I think they fudged up the Lokhust costs.... basics are listed as 40pts with the heavy loadout options and heavy is flat 50pts no options lol gj gw...

Tomb Blades went down 5 points. Still -20%

I think warriors are shelved lol... everything else seems fine.

Edit: Canoptek units are less important

I am going to do it for 1d4chan so I might as well post it here so none of you have to do the work over again.

Warscythes are the same cost as hyperphase blades, what a phoned in bunch of nonsense, this is so clearly made with an algorithm and not based on any intelligent analysis or playtesting (-5 to characters in pts bracket X, -10 for those in pts bracket Y and -15 for those in bracket Z). The only HQ that got no love was the Skorpekh Lord, probably the least pts-efficient of the bunch excluding Psychomancers and almost certainly the least popular. You'll have to compare with changes to other factions to estimate whether this is a net increase or decrease in power level for our faction.

Anrakyr the Traveller -10 7%
Catacomb Command Barge -10 6%
Chronomancer -5 6%
Illuminor Szeras -15 9%
Imotekh the Stormlord -15 10%
Lokhust Lord -5 (-5%)
Lord -5 (-7%)
Nemesor Zahndrekh -10 7%
Orikan the Diviner -10 9%
Overlord -5 5%
Plasmancer -5 7%
Psychomancer -5 7%
Royal Warden -5 7%
Technomancer -5 7%
Trazyn the Infinite -10 10%
Vargard Obyron -10 10%

Immortals -1 6%

Ghost Ark -15 10%

Deceiver -50 14%
Nightbringer -50 14%
Void Dragon -50 14%
Deathmarks -3 17%
Hexmark Destroyer -10 13%
Lychguard -3 11%
Transcendent C'tan -40 15%
Triarch Stalker -15 11%

Tomb Blades -5 20%
Triarch Praetorians -3 12%

Doomscythe -15 8%
Night Scythe -10 8%

Lokhust Destroyers -5 11%
Lokhust Heavy Destroyers -5 9%

Monolith -30 9%
Obelisk -30 9%
Silent King -20 5%
Tesseract Vault -50 11%

Convergence of Dominion -20 17%

Cryptek Arkana and Wargear
All Cryptek Arkana down 5 pts.
All Lord and Overlord weapons down 5 pts. Overlord and Lord Res Orb down 5 pts.
Upgrading Lokhusts to Heavy Lokhusts is down 5 pts. A 2-man Lokhust + Heavy Lokhust duo is down 15%.
Shadowlooms down 2 pts.

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
Tomb Blades went down 5 points. Still -20%

I think warriors are shelved lol... everything else seems fine.

Edit: Canoptek units are less important

Yeah, outside a single blob of 20, I don't see Warriors being worth much when Immortals have so many benefits.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
Tomb Blades went down 5 points. Still -20%

I think warriors are shelved lol... everything else seems fine.

Edit: Canoptek units are less important

Yeah, outside a single blob of 20, I don't see Warriors being worth much when Immortals have so many benefits.

Feth Immortals, Tomb Blades are knocking their socks off. Just go cheap and get 2x shots for 1,5x cost. With an EVEN CHEAPER Silent King, it's a no-brainer IMO.

The new balance dataslate just gave Necrons a pretty major buff. Protocols now only require a character on the board and you can select one that isn't assigned at the start of the game to be active all game. Combined with recent points drops this might actually push us towards the middle of the pack.

Also, all vehicles are now Core, including TSK. IIRC, that means you can use the veil on them.

Slipspace wrote:
The new balance dataslate just gave Necrons a pretty major buff. Protocols now only require a character on the board and you can select one that isn't assigned at the start of the game to be active all game. Combined with recent points drops this might actually push us towards the middle of the pack.

Also, all vehicles are now Core, including TSK. IIRC, that means you can use the veil on them.

So you could Veil a Monolith?

Forget veil....

You can use a Nightscythe to come in from reserves.... use Prismatic Dimentional Breach to port in a Monolith and set it up... 1" away from anything? Am I reading that right?

SaganGree wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The new balance dataslate just gave Necrons a pretty major buff. Protocols now only require a character on the board and you can select one that isn't assigned at the start of the game to be active all game. Combined with recent points drops this might actually push us towards the middle of the pack.

Also, all vehicles are now Core, including TSK. IIRC, that means you can use the veil on them.

So you could Veil a Monolith?

Forget veil....

You can use a Nightscythe to come in from reserves.... use Prismatic Dimentional Breach to port in a Monolith and set it up... 1" away from anything? Am I reading that right?

Pretty sure Prismatic Dimensional Breach, requires the unit to be 'wholly within 3" ' of the Night Scythe. Don't think that'll quite fit!

i dont believe it, they actually significantly buffed protocols without changing the text on the cards lol....

Does it not count as disembarking from a transport? Bah...