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2009/08/12 18:07:08
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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Besides Calgar, Tellion, and Sicarius, does anyone actually use the ultramarine special characters like the chaplain or the librarian?
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2009/08/12 18:11:57
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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Heck yes.
All depends on the points value for me. I find the Chaplain and Librarian great efficient characters below 1000 points, and save the big guys for the big games.
Only one I haven't tried yet is a Master of the Forge, and I hear he's quite popular, too.
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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2009/08/12 18:40:34
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
CT
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Cassius seems like a beast on the cheap, 125 points gets you a chappy that has a master crafted combi flamer that has hellfire shells, toughness 6, feel no pain and he still gets a bolt pistol for the extra attack in CC.
Tigurius seems expensive. I can see him as useful in a force that uses a lot of deep striking or reserves. Its nice that he has all of the psychic powers but 230 points for a model with W2,I4 and a no invulnerable save seems like a liability.
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2009/08/12 18:42:24
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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Ortan Cassius is just a beast. For 125 pts you get a T6 FNP character with a 3+/4++ save.
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2009/08/12 19:26:43
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Cassius is just a beast...I like to think of him as the SM version of the Eldar Avatar...that can be hidden in a squad no less!
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2009/08/12 20:06:24
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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I use a Vanilla Captain on a bike to get Bikes as scoring. I don't run a command squad on bikes nor ass temies in a LRC, so no use for Khan.
What's so good with Cassius?
The only thing he can do is Absorb one str 8+ weapon without instant gib.
He's still just 2 wounds, he doesn't get to help out a squad with his T6 as it's majority toughness anyway.
No option for a bike or jump pack.
@Volkan
@drummerholt1234
Do we really need to be told what gear/abilities he has... those of us with the codex can read it.
My 7 Cents.
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This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
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2009/08/12 20:31:40
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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Ok, so cassius is a good option for a chaplain, what about Tigirius or Chronus, do people use them?
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2009/08/12 20:35:02
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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@Sanctjud
Did you not just do the same thing...
she can read the codex so she knows about bikes as scoring units because of a bike captain... We just gave our opinion and why...
And just a little more on Cassius:
1. He give reroll hit on the charge as well as fearless to the unit he is with.
2. T6 is way better than T4 and hard as hell. He is as tough as a carnifex or most other MC's plus feel no pain.
3. He has a flamer shot as well as hellfire rounds.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/12 20:42:08
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2009/08/12 20:38:50
Subject: Re:Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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she can read the codex so she knows about bikes as scoring units because of a bike captain... We just gave our opinion and why...
FTFY
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/12 20:39:50
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2009/08/12 20:41:25
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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@canonness rory
Chronus is a waste of points and an extra kill point. Don't take him.
Tigirius on the other hand can be a good choice. He is a support unit. You don't have to pick and choose psychic powers and can just use the ones that will benefit you the best in the game. The reroll on reserves can help as well if you run a drop pod/deep strike , outflanking, or other general reserve armies. Automatically Appended Next Post: Canonness Rory wrote:she can read the codex so she knows about bikes as scoring units because of a bike captain... We just gave our opinion and why...
FTFY
Sorry fixed it 
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/12 20:42:35
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2009/08/12 20:43:07
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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Cassius is only good if you are using him on foot/in a rhino/razorback squad or in a landraider.
And even then, he's pretty meh the stuff he does.
I personally would rather save the 25 points.
Tiggy is just too expensive for what he brings, and no inv save outside of using a power to get one.
Chronus is a luxury, generally you want your vehicles as cheap as you can get them.
_____________________
@drummerholt1234.
Funny I did do the same thing, but not the wholesale slapping abilities/points/gear.
Chassius does do fearless and rr, but so does a reg. chappy.
THe toughness is only good in one or two occations, in which ONLY 2 wounds makes one use limited.
FNP is nice for absoring the small arms, but you can only allocate so many shots on him.
The gun is cool, but not too unique.
My 7 Cents.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/12 20:48:28
This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
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2009/08/12 20:58:18
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Cassius is a beast assaulting out of a LRC/ LRR. He is meant to lead assault units, plain and simple.
You have to get past his T6/ FNP to kill him in CC, while he is leading assault termies that are fearless and re-roll hits on the turn that they charge. Plus, his hellfire rounds/combi-flamer hamke him way better than a normal chappie. 25 points for +2 to Tough, FNP, a combiflamer, and Hellfire rounds...yes please!
Also, you said that he only good on foot or in a transport...where else would he be?
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2009/08/12 21:08:55
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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@Alerian:
I was alluding to reg. chappies who can get jump packs and bikes, to reinforce the notion he only applies to foot/rhino/LR/pod sort of delivery systems.
As for his defensive qualities, the 2 wounds is a downer on the whole package.
Hellfire rounds don't matter as much, you will be charging not rapidfiring most likely.
The combi-flamer is nice, but not always a good idea in terms of an assaulty unit to use.
His defensive qualities are nice all-round, in combat fists are coming his way are blunted a bit. He won't be instant killed but it's still only 2 wounds, and FNP is out of the picture vs. the fist, while the 'to wound' bonus for T6 is lost on str 8.
Fearless and RR to hit are no different from a normal chappy.
In my experience, those 25 ish points are important to me to fit in an addition squad of "x,y,z".
My 7 Cents.
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This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
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2009/08/12 21:20:03
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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I understand what you are saying about Jump packs and bikes for other chappies; however, once you do that they cost about the same as Cassius.
I am not saying that he is the end all of uber cool for SMs. I am just saying that for his price he outshines other chappie choices.
Does he belong in every list? No way. But, he does make a really nice addition to a Mech assaulty list. This is even better out of a LRC, because as the one assaulting, you can make sure that TH/SS termies (and not Cassius) are in btb with the opposing PF, thus forcing your opponent to hit Cassisus with weaker blows that T6 and FNP easily shrug off.
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2009/08/12 21:33:00
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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Well, lets just say jump pack then.
It makes the reg. chappy close to Cassius, but it allows him to keep up with assault marines.... sort of the bread and better for some lists.
Cassius can't do that. He's nice, but limited is all I'm saying.
Which is what you are saying at the same time. You are more positive, while I'm more of a downer I guess.
My 7 Cents.
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This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
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2009/08/14 15:28:44
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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I spent some time trying to work Chronus into my lists, too, but I came to the same conclusion. Just not worth the points.
The general wisdom if you use him is to get him in a tank that most benefits from BS5 -- something non-twin-linked.
The good old Dakka Predator comes to mind. 6 HB shots and 2 AC shots that will hit on 2s.
Also, for transport destruction, I was thinking a Predator with Autocannon turret/Lascannon Sponsons, or even the old Tri-Las Annihilator, since even that TL Turret can miss. Of course, then you're looking at a 200+ point tank that can give up 2 KP to a single AV13 penetrating shot.
Intriguing, but not worth it.
However, I've always wanted to buy up a bunch more Predators to make that Predator Assassin Squadron for Apocolypse. If I did that, Chronus would have to be hanging out in the Command Tank, because that just drips awesome all over the place.
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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2009/08/14 19:37:58
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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Couldn't you put him in a land raider? the crusader and all it's shots comes to mind, with BS5 you'll be missing almost none of those 9 million shots per turn you get. He also lets the crew ignore shaken and stunned results IIRC, which is handy for something like the crusader who's job is to get into combat ASAP.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/08/14 19:41:52
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2009/08/14 20:17:02
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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Ass termies in a LRC is a big basket already.
Why pay 65+a handful of points when you could just pay 10+a handful of points to do the exact same thing in terms of getting them into combat?
The bolters and asscannon are already TL...the only thing he'd help out fully would be the MM, but that's just more points on top of more points.
I don't like chronos cause he doesn't do anything completely unique.....like .....I don'know.... he's an expensive Daemonic Possession/Targetting array.
If he did something to the actual survivability of the vehicle he'd have something going for him.
Otherwise he's a luxury.
My 7 Cents.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/14 20:17:25
This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.
There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.
Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.
Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.
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2009/08/14 20:19:09
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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You can get Extra Armor if you're worried about Stunned results, and actually, I'd say the Crusader is the least effective place for him.
Every single gun except the Pintle Mounted Multi-Melta is already twin-linked.
Hitting on 2's (with Chronus' BS5 gift) doesn't change much if you're already re-rolling failures.
Hitting on 2's changes a LOT if you aren't re-rolling.
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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2009/08/14 20:22:28
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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TL BS5 is essentially BS10, which means you will fail 1/36 shots, compared to 1/6, that is a pretty big change IMO.
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2009/08/14 21:17:11
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot
Dallas, TX
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/facepalm
Simple math here, guys.
Normal To Hit BS4- 66%
TL To Hit BS4 - 88%
Normal To Hit BS5 - 83.3%
TL To Hit BS5 - 94%
66% to 83% = 17% increase
88% to 94% = 6% increase
17% > 6%
Very simple math there guys. Increasing the BS of a non-TL shot is a greater benefit than increasing the BS of a TL shot.
When you look at what Chronus does, you need to look at how much he _improves_ the unit if you want a real measure of efficiency to investment.
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Ultramarines Second Company - ~4000 points
Dark Eldar WIP - ~800 points
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2009/08/14 23:35:48
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Yeah, the best tank to put him on (from a biggest benefit standpoint), is unfortunately the tank mostly prized for its bargain price, the dakka pred.
Jack
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The rules:
1) Style over Substance.
2) Attitude is Everything.
3) Always take it to the Edge.
4) Break the Rules. |
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2009/08/14 23:55:15
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Proud Phantom Titan
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Most special characters are better value then there regular counter part.
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2009/08/15 01:09:07
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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No one likes Sicarius ? or whatever his spelling is.
Army wide Leadership 10 ; Combat Tactics; Gives a Squad a veteran skill.
Feel no pain ; Invulnerable ; Plasma gun ; Tempest Blade that insta kills.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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2009/08/15 02:49:45
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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GeneralRetreat wrote:/facepalm
Simple math here, guys.
[deleted for length]
Very simple math there guys. Increasing the BS of a non-TL shot is a greater benefit than increasing the BS of a TL shot.
When you look at what Chronus does, you need to look at how much he _improves_ the unit if you want a real measure of efficiency to investment.
Congrats, you can do math, but you don't understand basic logic.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/15 02:51:37
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2009/08/15 06:21:59
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Chronus would be worth his points if he (and his special rule) was BS6. Then not only would the Tank hit on 2+, but it would get re-rolls at what is effectively BS 1 as well.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/08/15 06:25:57
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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That would get messy with twin-linking.
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2009/08/15 06:27:35
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Not really.... you can only ever re-roll a die once.
EDIT: And after looking at the rule on pg. 18, the TL negates the re-roll of BS 6+ anyway, so not nearly as messy as one would think.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/08/15 06:29:53
Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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2009/08/15 06:31:20
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Missionary On A Mission
The Eye of Terror
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Exactly, BS6 is such a small increase, Twin-linking at BS6 would be exactly the same as BS5. Not to mention another 1/6 chance to hit means pretty much nothing, I dont think adding 1BS would solve anything.
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2009/08/15 06:50:19
Subject: Does anyone actually use those ultramarine special characters?
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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Yeah well it's already been established that Chronus is best placed on non TL'd guns (Dakka Pred) in which case, for the same points BS 6 would be make him worth it...
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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