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Pretty simple question , why do you prefer melta gun over Plasma? I've actually started using plasma a little bit more with my Chaos Terminators and generally like it. ST7 ap2 is rather nice ;down side is it gets hot but they have a 2+ save.

I tried this in a game on Thursday and really was satisfied with the results of having combiplasmas to blast 10 ST7 shots at a squad before charging them.


Anyway why do you prefer melta over plasma?

because plasma ALWAYS blows up on me... in my veteran squad with plasma weapons, I ALWAYS kill one with the Gets Hot! rule every time I fire the plasmagun.

Melta is a lot more reliable, it is virtually guaranteed that they will kill something, and for 5 points less.

Big advantage is instant death to T4 units. For example, a SM captain has 3 wounds - with a plasma gun, you need three unsaved (4+ invuln) wounds to take him down, giving you a total chance of 1/6*3=1/2 of inflicting a wound on yourself. A melta only needs one wound - and can't kill its owner.

Apart from that meltas are, of course, better against vehicles. Their lower range is no big problem if you go mechanized.

Well, a melta will hardly get a clear shot against a multi-wound model unless its a Tyranid MC.

Meltas are much better than plasma guns vs tanks.
On the other hand, plasma guns are priceless vs deep striking Termies.

I prefer the Meltas because of the versatility vs. tanks. I can see the usefullness of combi-plasmas on chaos termies especially when they have chainfists to deal with vehicles. But even then the combi-plasma is just one shot. On Chaos Termies what else is there to give them... nothing much.

Meltas can rock the s%*& out of tanks. They can ID T4 characters. They are AP1. They don't get hot.

Plasma gets hot, only S7, is so-so against tanks but can't take down high armor like a melta.

It's not really a comparison. Melta is so much better and with the advent of using rhinos to tote all of your guys armor getting within 12 or 6" isn't that hard.

Multiplying a fraction doesn't work like that Witzkatz. 1/6 times 3 is not 1/2 chance. You turn the 3 in to 3/1 and then times it by the 1/6, cross multiply and it equals 1/18 chance.

However, in this case you would just add 1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6. *Then* it would be 1/2 chance.

Well I am sure someone can do the math but basically its a autocannon at 12 inches which is excellent against Light Armour which most troop transports are.


I mean what are the two transports with AV14 ; Monolith (meltas do nothing) ; Landraider ; Battlewagon.

Then you have
AV 12
Chimera etc..
Rhinos AV11
Wave Serpents ( again no benefit no extra dice 1 more str)


I dunno I liked how the Term Squad I have performed it blew up a rhino and assaulted the unit inside. I only needed 4 plasma gun shots to do it too.

They killed the squad and went on to fire another 6 shots at a dreadnought and immoblized and destroyed a weapon.


That said I think MASS plasma shots more than 2 is pretty fun and nifty.

I have one squad of plasma vets with autocannons and PP in a chimera. They watch transports dissapear, kind of overkill really. I much perfer meltas though, I only use plasmas for modeling concerns (stupid steel leigon and their lack of meltas!)

Take both.

I run 2 squads with melta guns, and 2 squads with plasma guns for my CSM's. Why? Plasma eats troops. It rapes SM's, terminators, etc. Its very good at melting down things like Nobz as well. Its great vs. multi-wound monstrous creature HQ's (Avatars, Hive Tyrants) or tough critters like fexes. Lastly, placed on Plague Marines I have a 66% chance to make the save, then a 50% chance to make the second save if I fail the first. Dunno stats well, but speaking from experience, I've never lost a PM to GETS HOT!

Meltas have obvious advantages, mostly the fact they pop takes really well and are pretty consistant. Being AP 1 they are awesome! Yeah, they can one shot troops, but its not an anti-infantry weapon by any means.

So meltas = pop tanks, plasma = pop troops. Plasma guns volume of fire is twice that of meltas, so you can almost always guarentee 2-3 guys will die everytime you rapidfire! And I'm a huge fan of Plasma Cannons Str 7, ap 2 blasts are sexy

Icehawk18 wrote:Multiplying a fraction doesn't work like that Witzkatz. 1/6 times 3 is not 1/2 chance. You turn the 3 in to 3/1 and then times it by the 1/6, cross multiply and it equals 1/18 chance.

However, in this case you would just add 1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6. *Then* it would be 1/2 chance.

I'm sorry, but this is at least worded, if not thought, wrong. Multiplying 1/6 with 3 is in fact 1/2, what you might mean is calculating chance, but then again the exact way to compute it depends on what question you're trying to answer.

In the present case of wounding yourself three times in a row with a Gets Hot! throw, it's (1/6)^3, which is 1/18. If that's what you're meant, everything is okay.

I kinda like Plasma guns too.

Actually i prefer them, and yes thats a 4th ed thing i know.

But against most transports im better in the 6-12" band. Im better at melting away MEQs. Getting ID off against something MEQ means youre already winning, i never put my HQs in harms way out in the open in front of a melta, unless the game is already lopsided.

So yes Melta is over the top important because of how 40k 5th ed works, but plasma is so nice against some other stuff.

Combi plasma on CSM termies, when you charge a loyalist termi squad is pure fun.

Does anyone have the scale math for melta and plasma beyond the 6 inch range?

I mean its two STR7 vs 1 STR 8.

I have been thinking of making a Command Squad w/ 4 Plasmas and a Razorback for fun.

I don't like the GETS HOT! rule.. My marines always get their armour melted.

Because for the IG, plasmas are now more expensive than meltas...which is stupid...

I agree... IG have a higher chance of being killed by their own plasma than space marines do... since Gets Hot allows an armor save. That, coupled with being more expensive than a melta, regulates them to being a very seldom-taken choice in my lists.

If you ask anyone I play against regularly I always load up on as many meltas as possible.

They can kill infantry just as well as plasmas for cheaper and the will maul tanks with no trouble at all. I'd rather destroy a Landraider than kill 2 Termies any day.

Combi meltas are a personal favorite. All you ever really need is one shot to wreck a tank.

What kind of army I am facing goes a long way toward me choosing whether to plasma or to melta. I play against a necron player a lot so I lad up on plasma guns and cannons and leave the meltas at home. Most of the time though I like to strike a balance between the two.

I play marines though and I might think twice before using a lot of rapid fire plasma weapons with guard as they won't save as well against gets hot! rolls.

I try to mix up my special weapons in my tactical squads (SM player)... I'll take 1 tac squad with a missile/flamer/sword, and it goes after infantry.

i'll take one with melta/multimelta/fist, and it hunts tanks.

i'll take another with a plasma/plasma cannon/sword, and it holds my home objective while laying down plasma fire from a decent range.

meltas wouldn't work in that squad, because the ideal range for my targets is beyond 12". getting up close and personal with marines is not always a great idea, and the 24" max range of the plasma gun is invaluable to me.

i face to much armor these days. plasma is cool, but meltas just are more useful for me. when i was using plasma guns more in my DG there was alot of times where i said to myself " i wish these were melta guns" i didnt do that quite as much when i switched to double melta squads.

For plasma goodness I use plasma pistols on some sergeants..at least it can supplment the meltas vs hvy infantry and MC4

Remember that virtually every melta weapon in the game is range 12". That means that if your transport gets popped at a distance, your melta-toting squad is completely fethed.

I personally only take melta weapons on vehicles and deepstriking units. I don't like mechanised armies much, with the exception of Battlewagon Orks.

I like to have plasma guns on my devestators instead of multi-meltas because they have better range, but other then that i only use them on a few sergeants, and i take meltas in my tac squads because i usually deep strike or take a rhino with them so they get into range fast, and they don't have the Gets Hot issue.

As I play Guard, I prefer Melta over Plasma because the primary use of my infantry is to kill enemy vehicles. I usually take an Executioner and Demolisher, or another Executioner if I have the points, with Plasma Cannons for AP2. Meltaguns are 15 points cheaper per squad, and can still lay down half the shots of Plasma at 1 higher strength if I need to.

Though, I do like to run a single squad with 3 Plasmaguns and a Plasma Pistol, just because I think it's cool.

I prefer melta just because its a assault weapon.

//Edge

The New Romance wrote:

Icehawk18 wrote:Multiplying a fraction doesn't work like that Witzkatz. 1/6 times 3 is not 1/2 chance. You turn the 3 in to 3/1 and then times it by the 1/6, cross multiply and it equals 1/18 chance.

However, in this case you would just add 1/6 + 1/6 + 1/6. *Then* it would be 1/2 chance.

I'm sorry, but this is at least worded, if not thought, wrong. Multiplying 1/6 with 3 is in fact 1/2, what you might mean is calculating chance, but then again the exact way to compute it depends on what question you're trying to answer.

In the present case of wounding yourself three times in a row with a Gets Hot! throw, it's (1/6)^3, which is 1/18. If that's what you're meant, everything is okay.

Romance and Icehawk, both of you are as wrong as Witzkatz. So don't start teaching people the wrong things when you cant even do the calculation yourself. Don't You All go to school?

Firstly, (1/6)^3 IS NOT 1/18, but 1/216.

Secondly,

Witzkatz wrote:Big advantage is instant death to T4 units. For example, a SM captain has 3 wounds - with a plasma gun, you need three unsaved (4+ invuln) wounds to take him down, giving you a total chance of 1/6*3=1/2 of inflicting a wound on yourself. A melta only needs one wound - and can't kill its owner.

Apart from that meltas are, of course, better against vehicles. Their lower range is no big problem if you go mechanized.

That's rubbish calculation. To calculate the chance of inflicting a wound on yourself over 3 shots, you apply the theory of Conditional Probability.

1 - [ 5/6 * 5/6 * 5/6] = 1 - 125/216
= 91/216
= 42.13% chance of wounding yourself.

Go study people. Probability do count in 40k gaming.

Orkish wrote:
Firstly, (1/6)^3 IS NOT 1/18, but 1/216.

Huh?

THEY were talking about (1/6)3 ...you know... 1/6 "times" 3.
YOU were talking about 1/6 cubed....that is (1/6)(1/6)(1/6).
They are completely different animals. No one mentioned cubing, because you don't cube when calcualting your chances of blowing yourself up. Multiplying your number of plasmas will not decrease you chances of overheating (as cubing would indicate). They infact increase your chances.

So, while you were correct in telling them that they were using the incorrect method of calcuating probabilities, you were completely wrong on how you initially tried to correct their math.

I find that ironic, since you felt the need to inform them that it was they who needed to go back to school and study.

P.S Flaming people and telling them that they need to go back to school is a good way to make enemies and maybe even get hit with the banhammer.

1/126 is the odds of rolling three ones in a row, not the odds of rolling a one on any of three dice. You have a 1/2 chance of wounding a marine, 0.167 chance of also failing the save, if three of them are using plasma guns. If they're in rapid fire range, odds are one will be wounded every time and you'll lose 1/3 then. Your odds of losing all three in one turn would be 2.93e-4 in single shot range, and 5.88e-4 in double tap range.

Orkish wrote:That's rubbish calculation. To calculate the chance of inflicting a wound on yourself over 3 shots, you apply the theory of Conditional Probability.

1 - [ 5/6 * 5/6 * 5/6] = 1 - 125/216
= 91/216
= 42.13% chance of wounding yourself.

Go study people. Probability do count in 40k gaming.

I'm absolutely aware of the theory of conditional probabilty, and - believe it or not - I did actually calculate the 42.something probability as I thought about the problem. I might add, I still believe that this has not that much to do with conditional probability, but is more or less an easy binomial problem.
However, I thought the OP asked for the probability of a three wound captain blowing himself up in one turn. Of course, that would need him to fire three shots, which isn't possible, and which changes the problem. I didn't notice that at that moment, so your School Wisdom Highness might be so inclined as to forgive me. Remember, I proposed that the problem respectively the answer I was referring to might be worded difficultly. My only real mistake was to think that 6x6x6 is 18, which is of course wrong, but perhaps excusable at 11 p.m.

By the way,

Orkish wrote:Go study people. Probability do count in 40k gaming.

is rubbish english. Haven't you gone to school? It has to be "does". Go study, man. English does count in 40K gaming.

English actually does count.

German Codices sometimes deviate with no apparent need for a change.

So yay for evil stuff that you cannot do with an English but a German dex.