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The living armor rules of the Monolith state you do not receive additional dice from Monstrous creatures etc.

Now, while their chance of penetrating is limited, Bio-Acid spore mines have a special armor penetration value of 2D6 + 3.

My current conclusion is that the spore mines still get their 2D6 + 3 armor pen. Am I missing something here?

-Fool Whip

You can never have greater than 1d6+S penetration against living metal.

2d6+3 is greater than 1d6+S.

Even my tank hunter fire dragons don't get their +1 to penetration, according to the FAQ. newer printing of Codex: Necron

IIRC, the second printing of the Necron Codex changed the living metal rule to essentially say D6+S no matter what.

Don't quote me on that as I don't have the 2nd printing :(

Falconlance wrote:You can never have greater than 1d6+S penetration against living metal.

2d6+3 is greater than 1d6+S.

Even my tank hunter fire dragons don't get their +1 to penetration, according to the FAQ. newer printing of Codex: Necron

I thought i had the second printing of the necrons codex ... mine makes no mention of tank hunter ... care to quote where it says that it doesn't work?

The FAQ says it doesn't work...

yeah I'll just leave now.

Gwar! wrote:The FAQ says it doesn't work...

yeah I'll just leave now.

?!?!? where i can't find it ... do you mean it was in an old FAQ?

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:The FAQ says it doesn't work...

yeah I'll just leave now.

?!?!? where i can't find it ... do you mean it was in an old FAQ?

No Idea, I am going off what Falconlance said, I am far too busy... Being Delicious reading mah Spess Puppeh Codeex!

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:

Gwar! wrote:The FAQ says it doesn't work...

yeah I'll just leave now.

?!?!? where i can't find it ... do you mean it was in an old FAQ?

No Idea, I am going off what Falconlance said, I am far too busy... Being Delicious reading mah Spess Puppeh Codeex!

soon i will join you but for the moment i can't find a single thing that mention Tank hunter. The only part of the living metal rule that seems to disallow it is the text at the end but thats more a clarification then rule. sigh I'll quote "In practice, any weapon attacking the monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what." ... but when taken in context with the rest of the rule it means no 2D6 or lancing ....

You get no bonuses of any kind against a Monolith. The second printing of the codex makes that clear, which more or less covers things like tank hunter.

I had to bite the bullet and buy the 2nd printing during the 'Ard Boyz because some Ork player insisted Furious Charge worked against a Monolith. The 2nd printing makes it clear FC does not work, but the first printing is a little vague.

Sounds like Wraithguard still roll their single D6 though for 1/3 chance of penetration.

Ridcully wrote:Sounds like Wraithguard still roll their single D6 though for 1/3 chance of penetration.

Wrathguard have a special rule that completely replaces the S+D6 Mechanic, so it does not interact with Living metal anyway

Yup, as I read it the mines would be reduced to 1D6+3... AKA useless against the lith.

Tri wrote:sigh I'll quote "In practice, any weapon attacking the monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what." ... but when taken in context with the rest of the rule it means no 2D6 or lancing ....

Unfortunately due to water damage (and my lack of previous edition knowledge) I cannot tell what edition my housemates Necron Codex is.

The following is listed under the text for living metal on page 21:

"Similarly, weapons that get additional Armour Penetration dice (such as chainfists, monstrous creatures or melta weapons) do not get the extra dice against the Monolith. Ordinance weapons still roll 2D6 for Armour Penetration and select the highest score."

I cannot locate your quote in the FAQ or the codex, and the only things that are denied their extra D6 are listed.

Bio-Acid mines are not getting an additional D6, they just have a base vehicle penetration of 2D6.

Gwar! wrote:

Ridcully wrote:Sounds like Wraithguard still roll their single D6 though for 1/3 chance of penetration.

Wrathguard have a special rule that completely replaces the S+D6 Mechanic, so it does not interact with Living metal anyway

Unaugmented strength, single d6. Sounds the same to me.

Edit; btw did you get my pm?

a believe that "additional AP dice" refers to more than one, that is added together. I remember that back in the day for example, ork tankbusta bombs worked against the monolith because they were 1D6 x 2 + str

Does ordnance work against monos? as in take the highest of 2 d6's rolled?

skarousis wrote:Does ordnance work against monos? as in take the highest of 2 d6's rolled?

Yes. "Ordinance weapons still roll 2D6 for Armour Penetration and select the highest score."

FoolWhip quoted the answer to your question in his last post.

Spore mines do not add bonus dice.

They roll 2d6+3 for armor pen - always.

This is not +2d6. This is +3.

Spore mines are one way to circumvent Living armor. RAW

editing to add
2d6+3 is lousy chances, even though possible for pen vs monolith. If you aim at one it is for desperate odds. The good news is when you aim at a squad next to one and the splash damage hits the monolith - as the hole on the blast does not really help. Spore mines, raw, always roll 2d6+3 armor pen.

Edit: are we talking about bio acid? My codex may be old. It's listed as strength 3, meaning the maximum it can do is use the strength + d6.

kirsanth wrote:Spore mines do not add bonus dice.

They roll 2d6+3 for armor pen - always.

This is not +2d6. This is +3.

Spore mines are one way to circumvent Living armor. RAW

editing to add
2d6+3 is lousy chances, even though possible for pen vs monolith. If you aim at one it is for desperate odds. The good news is when you aim at a squad next to one and the splash damage hits the monolith - as the hole on the blast does not really help. Spore mines, raw, always roll 2d6+3 armor pen.

That is how I keep reading it. Are you going to the waaagh?

I was thinking so, but the timing is against me.

BAH!!!!

Ah well. We'll meet another time. I'm at Gamescape in SF on Friday's

Love that place.

Been too long since I have been there as the space restrictive


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Generally. . . moot.

This says otherwise.

Raise your hand if you think the Monolith severely needs a complete rules rewrite...

Seriously, just give it a 4+ invulnerable save or something and ditch the Living Metal rules. There, much simpler and still makes it much tougher than other vehicles.

Cheexsta wrote:Raise your hand if you think the Monolith severely needs a complete rules rewrite...

To be perfectly honest, Necrons can get a re-write as soon as Dark Eldar get one.

Gwar! wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:Raise your hand if you think the Monolith severely needs a complete rules rewrite...

To be perfectly honest, Necrons can get a re-write as soon as Dark Eldar get one.

Hmm... not a bad suggestion. While WBB and LM are bad there's a lot more 3rd edition weirdness in the Deldar codex. The wargear and the prices need an overhaul, as well as just about every special rule they have.

yeah but at least DE are competitive...

tiekwando wrote:yeah but at least DE are competitive...

So? Space Wolves were competative, but they were also the Oldest Printed codex, so GW decided to do them. DE is a Hybrid 2e/3e codex ffs.

Gwar! wrote:

tiekwando wrote:yeah but at least DE are competitive...

So? Space Wolves were competative, but they were also the Oldest Printed codex, so GW decided to do them. DE is a Hybrid 2e/3e codex ffs.

If i ran GW i would have released the 5th Edtion and a rules update book, so that the older armies worked agreeably till they got a new codex.