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Made in gb
Basecoated Black





England

What is the estimated release date for the redemptionist miniatures?

   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

 Shuma-Gorath wrote:
What is the estimated release date for the redemptionist miniatures?

The updated roadmap says Q2.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 ohreally wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:


That's not how this works. Gangs of the Underhive is replaced by these House books. Changes to wargear options, changes to advancement, entirely new types of gang members? Sounds like a new 'Codex' to me.


Actually that's exactly how this works. The Arbitrator decides what's legal in their campaign and which optional rules they'll be using.

Necromunda isn't designed for pick up games between strangers. So no, this isn't a anything like a codex.

That's not how it works at all! I've played since the late 90s and never had an arbitrator (or anyone else for that matter) tell me what I can and cannot play with. If GW put something in a book, I can play with it. NCE whis was the defacto edition up until N17 didn't even mention arbitrator!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/31 10:52:56


 
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






I’ve.....never played a campaign without an Arbitrator. Ever.

And yeah, that has lead to limits on what gangs are available and what supplements can or can’t be used.

It’s kinda essential to running a campaign. Sure, some arbitrators are more involved in their role than others. I prefer a proper narrative approach, where there are new (and hopefully interesting) things thrown in such as home brew scenarios and gribblies, so am probably more invested in the role than others to the point where I won’t run my own gang. But even just someone arranging things is still the arbitrator of their own campaign.

Otherwise....what’s the point and where’s the fun?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 ohreally wrote:
Looks like there's some new scenarios based on Hangers-On in the April issue of White Dwarf.

The one mentioned is set in an Ammo-Jack's gun range.

Wonder who plays all these scenarios. We already got 77...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ve.....never played a campaign without an Arbitrator. Ever.

And yeah, that has lead to limits on what gangs are available and what supplements can or can’t be used.

It’s kinda essential to running a campaign. Sure, some arbitrators are more involved in their role than others. I prefer a proper narrative approach, where there are new (and hopefully interesting) things thrown in such as home brew scenarios and gribblies, so am probably more invested in the role than others to the point where I won’t run my own gang. But even just someone arranging things is still the arbitrator of their own campaign.

Otherwise....what’s the point and where’s the fun?

I've neve played a campaign with an arbitrator - ever. Necromunda rules never included rules for arbitrator, and my group used to stick mostly to the rules. We play without limits. We play what we want how we want it. No person can ever come to my table and tell me what I can and cannot do when I play games with my friends. Don't really need a lot of new home brewn stuff as we have probably 40 official scenarios we haven't played yet. Countless terrain effects to try out.

The fun is a group of friends come together, roll some dice and develop their own gangs with some progression and drawback as the campaign progresses. Where's the fun in someone telling you what to do and how play? Hell no! Who plays like that, and in what other games? Never had that in 40k, not in Gorkamorka, not in Mordheim, not in Kill Team, not in blood bowl, not in battlefleet gothic...

On a more practical level, my group mostly consists of 3 players (sometimes more). Which means if one of us has to be sacrificed to the role of an arbitrator, the 2 remaining players will end up playing every single game against each other. With a group of 3, at least you can combine battles in 4 different ways.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/31 11:11:07


 
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

I have been the Arbitrator in a lot of campaigns. It boiled down to being "curator of house rules" rather than telling people what they could or couldn't use.

Things like trying to make some weapons marginally less godawful (looking at you, original Necromunda stubguns) which everyone in the campaign was keen to do.

Then the occasional multiplayer scenario.

And I would always be running my own gang as well.
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Same, we've always had a defacto Arbitrator.

Arbitrators were mentioned way back in White Dwarf during the original run in the 90's. They may not have been called that, but the general guide was for a campaign coordinator to make sure things ran smoothly, organise things, even write a fun newsletter kind of thing, etc.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Baxx wrote:
[
That's not how it works at all! I've played since the late 90s and never had an arbitrator (or anyone else for that matter) tell me what I can and cannot play with. If GW put something in a book, I can play with it. NCE whis was the defacto edition up until N17 didn't even mention arbitrator!


No, you're the Arbitrator. You're the one keeping track of all the rules in your group.

And once again, this isn't the same game you played "since the 90s." It's a new game with the same name.

An "arbitrator" is just another term for Gamemaster. It can mean campaign organizer, or storyteller or whatever else you want. It can be as controlling or as loose as you and your group want. It's always been a part of the system.

The fact you want to throw everything in every book into your games is your choice. It's not designed to support it though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/31 12:41:39


 
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





The only reason I keep track of all the rules is because GW scatter them in all the books, pdfs and white dwarf articles. I let my friends have a compiled overview of the rules, I don't tell anybody what gangs they can or cannot play, what weapons they can or cannot buy, what scenarios they can or cannot play...

What is it designed for? Not to use anything the players want? I could argue even a single book is not designed to support itself, considering all the internal inconsistencies and conflicts thoroughly documented.
 zedmeister wrote:

Arbitrators were mentioned way back in White Dwarf during the original run in the 90's. They may not have been called that, but the general guide was for a campaign coordinator to make sure things ran smoothly, organise things, even write a fun newsletter kind of thing, etc.

Most of my Necromunda games were played using the brown book and later NCE era (mid 2000s? to 2017). The campaign rules are smooth and doesn't require any organizing or newsletters.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/31 13:10:08


 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 ohreally wrote:
Baxx wrote:
[
That's not how it works at all! I've played since the late 90s and never had an arbitrator (or anyone else for that matter) tell me what I can and cannot play with. If GW put something in a book, I can play with it. NCE whis was the defacto edition up until N17 didn't even mention arbitrator!


No, you're the Arbitrator. You're the one keeping track of all the rules in your group.

And once again, this isn't the same game you played "since the 90s." It's a new game with the same name.

An "arbitrator" is just another term for Gamemaster. It can mean campaign organizer, or storyteller or whatever else you want. It can be as controlling or as loose as you and your group want. It's always been a part of the system.

The fact you want to throw everything in every book into your games is your choice. It's not designed to support it though.


I doubt very much you're going to get very far trying 'inform' people of how they play a game. They're in a much better position to know than you.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Voss wrote:

I doubt very much you're going to get very far trying 'inform' people of how they play a game. They're in a much better position to know than you.


I don't have a problem with people playing the game however they want. I have a problem with them telling other people they're playing it wrong and denying the way the game works.

It's a game, no one is coming to your house or group and telling you what to do. But to pretend that the game is broken because it doesn't work the way they want is silly if the game isn't designed to work that way.

This edition is a complete reboot of the system but a lot of people who enjoyed some previous iteration are acting like because this isn't exactly the same as the old version they know it's bad or broken, and that's absurd. The game can work as it is if you follow the spirit of the ruleset.

Most of the rules this edition are optional and someone (or the group) has to decide which rules they're going to use. That can be all of them, but just like if you walk into your kitchen and throw everything into the soup, it's not always going to taste good.
   
Made in gb
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Scotland, but nowhere near my rulebook

Well, from The Big Yellow and Black Original-ish Necromunda rulebook, published 1998 and compiling the Rulebook, Campaign book and Outlanders - Page 244 onwards - "The Arbitrator Campaign"

And (surprise!) it's a loose, rough and ready grab-bag of ideas about what to do for some multiplayer scenarios, how to deal with one or another gang getting too powerful (let them have a week of glory then retire from the campaign, drafted into the PDF or on to better things).

This stuff really has been baked in right from the start, including the "use as much or as little as you like" philosophy.

The difference was that the previous campaign version was simply considerably more robust than the current campaign.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





 ohreally wrote:

Most of the rules this edition are optional and someone (or the group) has to decide which rules they're going to use. That can be all of them, but just like if you walk into your kitchen and throw everything into the soup, it's not always going to taste good.

What is optional and what is not?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






All of it is optional.

Unless every game played includes all six basic gangs, Enforcers, hired guns, perilous terrain etc.

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Baxx wrote:
 ohreally wrote:

Most of the rules this edition are optional and someone (or the group) has to decide which rules they're going to use. That can be all of them, but just like if you walk into your kitchen and throw everything into the soup, it's not always going to taste good.

What is optional and what is not?
All and none of it. But, someone has to decide for the group (as a group), or there'll be disputes, 'illegal' lists, and a non-functional game.

There are too many re-written rules for that to get overlooked.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/03/31 14:44:14


4000 pts - 3500 pts - 3500 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 1000 ptsDS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
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"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Baxx wrote:

What is optional and what is not?


Everything outside the core rules in the Rulebook and the 6 clan house gangs in Gangs of the Underhive is different levels of optional.

Often it even tells you it's optional. So I'm not sure why you're confused.

A great example is the Outlaw rules. They're can be super important in a Law and Misrule campaign, but it tells you that you can include them IF YOU WANT in other campaigns.

The entire concept of Alliances is optional. It tells you right in the rules that's it "up to the Arbitrator" to use them or not.

I could go on and on about all different things that start with "this is a set of optional rules" but the discretion of an Arbitrator makes everything in the game optional if it's run by one who takes on that responsibility.

You want it all to work together like the NCE and you can make your compilation and make that work for your group, but that's not how the designers expect you to play the game, so it's going to take work. The person who does that work is the Arbitrator whether you want to call yourself that or not.

The moral of this story is, I think you can do what you want and have your kind of fun, but most of your complaints aren't about the game as it's written. They're about how the game isn't written for your way of playing. You can keep shouting into the sky, or you can just accept it for what it is and let other people enjoy it for what it is and what it continues to shape up to be. What I'd really appreciate is if you'd stop criticizing people who don't want to play the game the way you think it should be played.

Do you have any experience with roleplaying games? Because if you don't, I can see why this edition doesn't make sense to you. It's now a sandbox game and all these books are toolboxes for people take bits from as they like.
   
Made in no
[DCM]
Necron of Munda





I'm more inclined to say anything and everything is optional as others have done above. I'm confused because no-one says Chaos Cult is optional. Why are they optional, but Delaque is not? Where is that written? Who decided that? A lot of the content is broken out of the box so to say, so what the designers thought does't bear much value with me. I could point to all sorts of rules and nobody knows what the designers intended - not even the designers themselves. I have about 20 years experience with Necromunda (and several related games). I have no experience with role playing game. And who's telling who how to play here?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/03/31 18:17:51


 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 ohreally wrote:
Voss wrote:

I doubt very much you're going to get very far trying 'inform' people of how they play a game. They're in a much better position to know than you.


I don't have a problem with people playing the game however they want. I have a problem with them telling other people they're playing it wrong and denying the way the game works.


I have wide a selection of mirrors, pots and kettles.

This is a discussion best suited to an actual store with the people you game with, it has zero bearing on people who don't play with you, who may be up to thousands of miles away. So maybe take it somewhere other than the N&R thread?

Do you have any experience with roleplaying games? Because if you don't, I can see why this edition doesn't make sense to you. It's now a sandbox game and all these books are toolboxes for people take bits from as they like.

I do, and the 'you're playing it wrong' argument has zero bearing on anyone. It never has. People play the way they enjoy the game, and it doesn't impact anyone else, even if you think your way is the 'right way.'

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User






Baxx wrote:And who's telling who how to play here?


Play however you want. You're the one saying there's a problem with the way the game is because it doesn't suit your way of playing.

And Chaos Cults are of course optional, the whole Book of Ruin is optional. No one is forced to play Chaos Cults just because they're in the book.

Voss wrote:
I do, and the 'you're playing it wrong' argument has zero bearing on anyone. It never has. People play the way they enjoy the game, and it doesn't impact anyone else, even if you think your way is the 'right way.'


How is "play however you want" the equivalent of "you're playing wrong".

All I ever said was that the set of "all the rules" is a choice that a group decides on. You literally can't play wrong, but it's not wrong to say that you don't need to include all the rules just because they exist. And I'm not going to back down from this position just because "It never has". You're arguing with me and I don't even disagree with you.

Redemptionist only gangs are coming in the next book, and they'll be optional too. If a group doesn't want to include them they aren't "playing wrong" any more than a group that includes them without any consideration. That's my whole point, SOMEONE, either an individual person who has taken on that responsibility, or the group has to decide what they think is fun. The good news for me and the other rational people here is that Specialist Games is going to keep adding cool new stuff that we can use to add to our games or not at our pleasure. It's also going to continue to drive people that want to throw in the kitchen sink nuts, so that's a bonus.


   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Seems as though DU is now direct only. I feared that this might become the case when the new starter was released and unfortunately it has happened. A lot of people criticisize this set as too expensive, idk what the general sentiment of the people in this thread is on this box but personally it's one of my all time favourites. For any fan of GW terrain this box is a goldmine and I'm sad to see it take the first step on the road to obsolescence.
   
Made in vn
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well you can start hoarding them goldmine now before it's too late. My local store has a single copy and it's been on the shelf since release.

The only goldmine i wish i'd hoard is the 1st 8th ed killteam starter.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/04/01 03:58:39


 
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





Yeah I missed those initial KT boxes, was out of the hobby at the time. The DU thing isn't the end of the world, some retailers will still stock it, but usually at a less generous discount than they offer for non-direct items (like half as much discount generally speaking, so still disappointing).
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

As soon as they announced the rather slim new Necro starter box two weeks I ago I ordered two sets of Dark Uprising.

I knew they'd be vanishing pretty quickly after that. Also, with DU gone, that means the Thermic Plasma Conduits are gone for good.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Battle-tested Knight Castellan Pilot





I have adequate sets of DU and ZM but there was zero chance I wouldn't buy more in the future, but that's now quite likely given that the reduced discount works out as a significant saving lost due to the high price tag on DU.
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Also, with DU gone, that means the Thermic Plasma Conduits are gone for good.


They're also in the Kill Team Killzone: Sector Mechanicus Environment Expansion box.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

So they are, living a little bit longer in an absurdly costed baint'n'switch product.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

Underhive informant on the Redemptionists:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/04/13/underhive-informant-like-fire-like-worshipping-the-emperor-then-youre-in-luck/

With refernce to Klovis...

Also, Firepike:



Wonder how pure Redemptionists strack up against Corpse Grinders. All those flamers should make things a bit hairy...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/13 15:16:10


 
   
Made in us
Basecoated Black





Tangentville, New Jersey

So Klovis The Redeemer is replacing the Arch-Zealot, I guess?


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 zedmeister wrote:
Wonder how pure Redemptionists strack up against Corpse Grinders. All those flamers should make things a bit hairy...

Probably not very well. It isn't like Grinders have a problem making charges over 8".
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Warwickscire

 KidCthulhu wrote:
So Klovis The Redeemer is replacing the Arch-Zealot, I guess?


I wouldn't say so - it looks like he'll only be available via petition for aid or as a Hired Gun
   
 
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